117 replies to this topic

[feeWAIVER]

Streaks are really only useful for 4th wave faction play defense.

[Elizander]

Given the weight difference between IS and Clan streaks (4.5 tons vs 3 tons), the CD change really felt out of place among all the other changes. Well, if it sucks then just bring it up as something that should be iterated on the month after.

[Ignatius Audene]

Elizander, on 08 April 2021 - 07:06 AM, said:

Given the weight difference between IS and Clan streaks (4.5 tons vs 3 tons), the CD change really felt out of place among all the other changes. Well, if it sucks then just bring it up as something that should be iterated on the month after.

And there is one huge problem. I rly dont belive in quick changes happening. And even if u do, u always piss off a part of the community, that dont like rapid changes. So I think the first strike needs to go at least in the right direction.

[GuavaPastry]

Remover of Obstacles, on 07 April 2021 - 03:06 PM, said:

Go to the testing grounds.

Commando still alive after four salvos of four SSRM6s from point blank range.

First three only got through arm armor, not torso or leg armor.

The commando is one of the tankiest light mechs vs streaks. No light is going to facetank streaks like in testing grounds. Streaks deal more focused damage when you are running from them than when you facetank them, that focused damage is more likely to be in the back when you are running, you are forced to run from streaks because they are still good enough to kill you and it is a lot easier to hold a lock on a running light than it is on a brawling light.

[Mal Bolge]

Nightbird, on 08 April 2021 - 05:40 AM, said:

IS Streaks are one of the best weapons in the game, better than the C-ERPPC, of course it should be nerfed. Duh!

LOL, yeah! And ATMs, which are completely useless for annihilating lights, should be buffed of course!

[Escef]

GuavaPastry, on 08 April 2021 - 09:34 AM, said:

The commando is one of the tankiest light mechs vs streaks. No light is going to facetank streaks like in testing grounds. Streaks deal more focused damage when you are running from them than when you facetank them, that focused damage is more likely to be in the back when you are running, you are forced to run from streaks because they are still good enough to kill you and it is a lot easier to hold a lock on a running light than it is on a brawling light.

You're right, no light is going to facetank streaks like in the testing grounds, but not for the reason you think. The mechs in the testing grounds are stock. Stock mechs are typically badly under-armored. The 1B Commando, for example, only mounts 128 out of a possible 178 armor points. Furthermore, mechs that have been skilled tend to boast at least a small amount of bonus armor from the survival tree, 9%-12% is far from unheard of. What does this mean? It means that a Commando after skills and quirks can mount well over 200 armor points. In other words, a mech in a live match won't facetank streaks like in the testing grounds, it will do it better.

Yes, the Commando might by tanky, but it's still only 25 tons. And they, like all lights, especially Inner Sphere lights, easily fall victim to one of the idiosyncrasies of streaks: trying to side-shield them is bad. With most humanoid mechs, you turn your side to the enemy to present a narrower target, which means a great deal of firepower from weapons with spread (most missiles, LBX cannons; even beam duration and burst fire weapons to a lesser extent) misses you. Streaks, as homing weapons, are not affected by this. In fact, with the way streaks lock onto and track "bones" inside of mech components, trying to side tank does not result in less overall damage, but instead in damage being concentrated. All those missiles targeting your torsos and far arm? Yeah, they just plowed into the arm nearest the enemy (missiles targeting the farther leg often end up absorbed by the near one, as well). This results in an increased chance of losing a leg, a near certainty of the loss of an arm, and if you stick around for a second salvo and make the same mistake? A good chance of side torso destruction; which will end the match for an IS light, and is none too good for a clan mech.

If you are in a light mech and need to tangle with a streakboat, you face into the missile swarm. This spreads the damage across your mech as evenly as possible. Granted, even better than that is making maximum use of evasive maneuvers to prevent the enemy from resolving a missile lock. Another good idea is to dance around near streak maximum range, especially if you have cover available. Note also that since missiles detonate at the end of their range, while most beam weapons still do damage past optimum, it is possible to dance around a streakboat from outside his effective engagement range and paper-cut him to death with medium lasers. Optimally? ECM covers a multitude of sins. Even with an active probe, streaks can't lock if under two active ECMs, grab a friend and tag-team the poor guy. Maybe, just maybe, the streak boat is rocking a probe and a TAG, in which case your odds are still pretty good with two ECM carriers... Or, you could just leave the streakboat for one of your big boys to play with, it'll be like watching someone trying to stop a tree from falling on him with a belt sander. Sure the tree won't look nice after, but that belt sander isn't going to accomplish much.

[grim spider]

Ken Harkin, on 07 April 2021 - 01:36 PM, said:

I want ONE thing for Streaks. Let them Dead Fire. LRMs dead fire without a lock. ATMs dead fire without a lock. Streaks simply will not fire without a lock which is MORONIC. With the prevalence of not just ECM but STEALTH ARMOR Streaks become the only weapon in the game which is USELESS at every range. It doesn't matter if you have a TC, Beagle, or TAG, those Fleas and Locust are too fast. The TAG can't hold them long enough to overcome stealth. Your only choice is to feed them pieces of your mech and hope someone shoots them off of you.

Yes! Because lights should have no counter against your hard instant kill counter against them. They should just die. And you shouldnt even have to aim either!

[Mal Bolge]

___, on 08 April 2021 - 11:46 AM, said:

Yes! Because lights should have no counter against your hard instant kill counter against them. They should just die. And you shouldnt even have to aim either!

Think you are talking about ATMs which does 3 damage per missiles, not SSRMS which do 1 damage per missile. Not even 6x SSRMS6 fired at the same time could insta kill you, unless you didn't have any armor equipped. ATMs on the other hand can do that easily and much more efficient.

Edited by Mal Nilsum, 08 April 2021 - 12:00 PM.

[Nightbird]

Mal Nilsum, on 08 April 2021 - 11:56 AM, said:

not SSRMS which do 1 damage per missile

right....

[Mal Bolge]

Nightbird, on 08 April 2021 - 12:02 PM, said:

right....

Ops you're right, my eyes were crossed. They do 2 per missile... still not as strong as 3 though right?

[Nightbird]

Since the IS Streak 6 is over-performing next to the C-ER PPC, that is the reason it is getting nerfed.

[GuavaPastry]

Escef, on 08 April 2021 - 11:40 AM, said:

If you are in a light mech and need to tangle with a streakboat....

It doesn't work this way in practice. You don't fight streak boats as a light because you won't win the fight. You have to run or you're trading yourself for damage on a worse mech/player. These guys don't win brawling by torso twisting away while holding locks with free look, they just low effort boomer boat facetime you and know their OP weapons will carry them. You can not twist away when you run but that means exposing yourself to an instant kill in the back ST from the players who can aim. Your best bet is to completely avoid the fight. The dumber streak boats will hunt you and you can easily avoid them. The smarter ones play lurker style and sit behind their assaults. As a flanker close range light like the Flea-17 or COM-1D, if you don't see these mechs before going in, they gib you. If you do see them, your best play is to sit out of the fight. Sometimes you can play the other side of the map, but a lot of times there's a deathball and the risk you have to take to poke is greatly outsized by how easy it is to hit you and how much damage you take from it. A low skill, low risk strategy completely invalidating a high risk, high skill strategy is bad game design.

[Mal Bolge]

Nightbird, on 09 April 2021 - 08:28 AM, said:

Since the IS Streak 6 is over-performing next to the C-ER PPC, that is the reason it is getting nerfed.

LOL! Nice trolling. I have always wondered why we see so many streak boats and hardly and PPC boats out there. LOL!

[East Indy]

It'd be ideal if Streak missiles scaled damage per weight. Blasting lights from nearly 400m would no longer be an issue, removing the other side of the balance seesaw.

Frankly, Clan Streak range is one of the more grognard-y tabletop leftovers. Why, exactly? I don't see a purpose in MWO.

[Nightbird]

Mal Nilsum, on 09 April 2021 - 10:34 AM, said:

LOL! Nice trolling. I have always wondered why we see so many streak boats and hardly and PPC boats out there. LOL!

I'm not the one trolling... I'm not a member of the Cauldron.

[Escef]

GuavaPastry, on 09 April 2021 - 10:23 AM, said:

It doesn't work this way in practice. You don't fight streak boats as a light because you won't win the fight.

I have. I'm positively mediocre, and on top of that I suck with most light mechs. Yet I've dropped a StreakDog with an Urbie.

GuavaPastry, on 09 April 2021 - 10:23 AM, said:

...OP weapons...
... low skill, low risk...

That's seriously your impression of streaks? Well, ok. You're wrong, but ok.

[feeWAIVER]

I can't help but think a lot of these balance complaints are quickplay problems, and if everyone just played faction play (4 mech drop decks with weight standards) they'd have a better appreciation for the overall game balance.

[John Bronco]

feeWAIVER, on 09 April 2021 - 12:00 PM, said:

I can't help but think a lot of these balance complaints are quickplay problems, and if everyone just played faction play (4 mech drop decks with weight standards) they'd have a better appreciation for the overall game balance.

I'd generally agree with that. Though on the topic of streaks if we went by FP they'd be getting a massive nerf instead of a small adjustment.

[feeWAIVER]

John Bronco, on 09 April 2021 - 12:23 PM, said:

I'd generally agree with that. Though on the topic of streaks if we went by FP they'd be getting a massive nerf instead of a small adjustment.

Rly? i think they're an appropriate defense against a 4th wave light rush.

[Meep Meep]

Streaks should also get a dumbfire mechanic with increased spread so you don't get royally screwed by ecm/stealth mechs. That way you can still fire but its going to be scattershot and ineffective but you can still get lucky.