619 replies to this topic

[ScrapIron Prime]

JediPanther, on 09 June 2021 - 12:46 PM, said:

I find your gunnery skills against an infestation impressive. Most pilots with that load out would have died in a 3 vs 1 against stealth-ed bugs. They must have been poor pilots.

Oh i took well over 300 damage from them, don't get me wrong. But I kept moving backwards and put my back to a wall as often as i could to make coring me out harder. then you wait for them to stop jinking back and forth for just a second. Exhale, pull trigger.

[Capt Deadpool]

Nine-Ball, on 09 June 2021 - 12:27 PM, said:

Kind of hard to "counter" a light that shrugs off 90% of your damage because they're running full speed and your barely able to keep a bead on them.

But I suspect that high-horse of yours is depriving you of oxygen making you unable to think clearly.

Honestly, if you can snipe and take out a light in a single alpha while they're in full sprint mode while juking left and right I must ask what sorta aim-bot you are using.

But for the sake of argument, what would be the most effective counter for a light? Running a splat build?

I realize that what I said may be offensive to someone in a lower tier who is under the impression that they may have the same knowledge of how to counter lights as the higher tiers, but it is true. You only need to look at the stats to see how few people play lights compared to the other classes, my dude. If they were as OP as you think everyone would be playing them. I can fairly guarantee you that it is not T5 lights that are tearing apart T5 teams...

And even before the recent weapon buff, there were plenty of good players who could hit me with PPFLD while I was running at full speed and even juking in my Flea, albeit likely with quirked velocity builds. Now, players with worse aim are hitting me with greater frequency due to increased velocities.

The skill ceiling of this game is not as high as you seem to believe it is, go play CS 1.6 or CS-GO for a while and get back to me... Decent amateur level comp players cannot even play in public servers because at a certain skill level the masses cannot even discern between skill and aimbot/well hax. Ask me how I know... (though I am well, well past my physical prime when I was competing). This is not even to mention the higher level pros, who literally are examples of some of the best reaction and aiming ability on the planet earth if you watch matches, what they do is absolutely inhuman and yet done completely without cheats. So I would be careful of accusing people in-game because it only makes you look like a tater....

And to answer you last question, I already mentioned it above: short duration lasers with duration nodes taken (IS MPL, small pulses or micros), SRMs, or streaks with a tag and BAP. PPFLD weapons once your aim gets better. But the most important thing is situational awareness-lights prey on the isolated and injured, there is strength in numbers, so don't get isolated.

[Saved By The Bell]

Stil powerful? After size update? No way.

[Capt Deadpool]

Lockheed_, on 09 June 2021 - 01:15 PM, said:

half of the time they are higher tier players who don't like getting instagibbed (by something that appears visually as though it should be small and insignificant though they have no problem getting instagibbed far more frequently by assaults, because assaults SHOULD instagib mechs because they so big and powerful looking... lol)

slightly fixed

[Catra Lanis]

Leveling 3 lights on my alt. I'll write down some thoughts when I'm done but I can tell you right now that lights don't need any help as a class. Some lights do, but lights are by and large in a pretty ok spot.

[John Bronco]

I agree.

One time I was playing an assault mech, and a light mech killed me.

That should never happen.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Just keep playing your way, leave the little ******** to us light-hunters. Dusted off my cicada the other day to work on the medium laser damage part of the event ended up chasing so many of them around the map raking legs was a riot.

[Khobai]

Capt Deadpool, on 09 June 2021 - 11:50 AM, said:

As I mentioned, I suspect most of the players who complain about lights being OP are lower tier players where there is a lack of knowledge of how to counter them.

which is precisely why streaks existed.

But cauldron nerfed streaks.

thats why lower tier players cant deal with lights anymore

[RickySpanish]

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em OP. Go buy yourself a Flea and load 'er up with an xl-180 and small pulse lasers and go to town. You'll quickly learn their strengths and weaknesses and probably have fun doing it too. I'd recommend sticking to IS Lights to begin with, as Clan Light 'Mechs are comparitively slow or extremely easy to destroy.

Lights are very good though, yes. In the hands of a semi competent pilot they punch well above their weight, because most people think they're rubbish and don't give them the respect they deserve. If you let a Light get close (nevermind behind you) their short range weapons will easily put out close to the same sustained damage as you. BUT they do also have a higher skill cap compared to Mediums and Heavies. Not just anyone can do well in a Light, so those guys cutting through your team are probably, actually, quite good.

[1453 R]

Worth reiterating: the best counter to light 'Mechs is shooting them.

I've been having a ton of fun in my very nearly bone-stock Nova Cat-D recently, whose claim to fame is being able to fire three heavy large lasers at once without Spoopy Heat telling me to go cook myself. HLLs are...not the shortest burntime lasers. Hell, I'm pretty sure they're the longest burntime in the game unless they re-nerfed cERLLs again. I've got ~1.5s lightsabers and a shotgun, often considered the worst anti-light weapons. Ye know what I do when a light 'mech starts nipping at me?

I shoot it.

Sure, I miss a lot. I don't/can't hold my lasers on the critters for much more'n half their burntime, if even that, provided the light is juking. I am in T5, you'd be surprised how often one pulls a straight-line attack run and gets burned for his efforts. My autocannon ticks a few pellets here and there. And ye know what usually happens? The light ***** off and goes away, because even glancing hits are not necessarily insignificant when you have maybe thirty points of armor on a given extremity. Because I shoot it, and thusly let it know it doesn't get to chew on my *** without me chewing back, it decides to look for someone else to chew on. With some fresh new dinged-up armor for the road.

Yeah, sure. Sometimes I get nibbled to death by a determined light pilot who knows their ****, or I get swarmed and cut apart. And sometimes I get a good, lucky burn in and harvest a ST or a leg, and the light proceeds to suck. One good, solid whack with that LB-10/X tends to remind them that I'm a fuggin' Nova Cat and they need to step careful around me. Not to mention my buddy Maker, who's made something of an art form out of heavy-goosing Commando kneecaps. Again - he shoots lights, and lights are significantly less of a problem for him.

Yeah, you miss sometimes. A lot of times, to be honest. But you also don't have to hit nearly as hard as a lot of people think they do in order to get light 'Mechs to ********** and let you be. You just have to hit them enough to remind them that you know exactly what they're doing and you ain't having it.

[Novakaine]

It's simple as primarily an Assault player I know their coming for me personally.
Act accordingly stay with the pack or at the very least ask for an escort until you can.
9 times out of 10 someone will help you.
Use their speed against them with some nifty use of terrain.
And if you do get ganked put your rear exhaust port against something solid to limit the circle jerk.
Torso twisting is friend here.
They will cross your line of sight a some point then boom

[pattonesque]

just shoot them dude jeez

you get a build with a nice PPFLD alpha and just shoot them in the leg or side torso or whatever

I mean sure sometimes they can juke, but it's entirely possible to one- or two-shot many lights even if you're getting swarmed

when I play lights I'm constantly aware of this. one wrong move and it's gg

1453 R, on 09 June 2021 - 02:37 PM, said:

Ye know what I do when a light 'mech starts nipping at me?

I shoot it.

Sure, I miss a lot. I don't/can't hold my lasers on the critters for much more'n half their burntime, if even that, provided the light is juking. I am in T5, you'd be surprised how often one pulls a straight-line attack run and gets burned for his efforts. My autocannon ticks a few pellets here and there. And ye know what usually happens? The light ***** off and goes away, because even glancing hits are not necessarily insignificant when you have maybe thirty points of armor on a given extremity. Because I shoot it, and thusly let it know it doesn't get to chew on my *** without me chewing back, it decides to look for someone else to chew on. With some fresh new dinged-up armor for the road.

Yeah, sure. Sometimes I get nibbled to death by a determined light pilot who knows their ****, or I get swarmed and cut apart. And sometimes I get a good, lucky burn in and harvest a ST or a leg, and the light proceeds to suck. One good, solid whack with that LB-10/X tends to remind them that I'm a fuggin' Nova Cat and they need to step careful around me. Not to mention my buddy Maker, who's made something of an art form out of heavy-goosing Commando kneecaps. Again - he shoots lights, and lights are significantly less of a problem for him.

Yeah, you miss sometimes. A lot of times, to be honest. But you also don't have to hit nearly as hard as a lot of people think they do in order to get light 'Mechs to ********** and let you be. You just have to hit them enough to remind them that you know exactly what they're doing and you ain't having it.

this dude gets it. a lot of you do not shoot at the enemy and it's very noticeable

Edited by pattonesque, 09 June 2021 - 03:03 PM.

[Capt Deadpool]

Catra Lanis, on 09 June 2021 - 02:02 PM, said:

Leveling 3 lights on my alt. I'll write down some thoughts when I'm done but I can tell you right now that lights don't need any help as a class. Some lights do, but lights are by and large in a pretty ok spot.

Definitely include the metrics you are using in your analysis, e.g. the percentage of players that play lights relative to other classes and your thoughts as to why this is, the average damage lights do compared to other classes, the effectiveness of the average pilot in a light compared to the other classes as to impacting games, whether you believe W/L for the average light pilot is the same, better or worse than pilots who main other weight classes, etc.

Edited by Capt Deadpool, 09 June 2021 - 03:51 PM.

[Khobai]

Anc1ent, on 09 June 2021 - 02:38 PM, said:

Problem is not with lights being too powerful but assaults being too weak. Imo all the assaults should get better pitch angle to be able to deal with ankle biters and armor quirks, those that already do have armor quirks should have slightly better ones... ofc matchmaker would have to be optimized to equalize their numbers which it currently fails at miserably.

I dont think you can really even make assaults pitch down more. if you increased some of their pitch angles more theyd start clipping into their own models.

I think its more the size of assaults thats the problem. theyre too damn big.

A 100 tonner should only be three times bigger than a 35 ton jenner because its three times the weight. But a king crab is what like 6 times the size of a jenner? more? its massively overscaled for its weight. its close to twice the size it actually should be.

Since rescaling all the assaults is probably off the table I think we have to look to solutions that have worked in the past for when lights have gotten rowdy. Streaks. Buff streaks back to a point where they can actually threaten light mechs.

Cauldron turned streaks into a dumpster fire weapon because they hate the idea of higher tier players killing lower tier players in lights with lowskill weapons. It was absolutely an agenda.

Streaks are supposed to punish lights for getting too close and prevent lights from being able to anklebite and facehug. Thats their purpose. If they arnt good at their purpose theres no point for them to even exist.

Edited by Khobai, 09 June 2021 - 07:51 PM.

[Nightbird]

OP is right, lights are OP, should be nerfed.

[Capt Deadpool]

Nine-Ball, on 09 June 2021 - 02:08 PM, said:

Not offensive, just ignorant.

I tend to see it from players like you who think they're the bees-knee.

I mean, you are very free to believe MWO is the most skill-based game of all time if you want, my dude. I doubt we would have seen so many vets leave over the years if that was the case though. I was nowhere near the skill level of even the mediocre pro teams in the games I mentioned, so definitely don't think I am the articulating joints of any splendid beast, let alone the magnificent bee Don't check out what those nutty Koreans are playing though, or the cognitive dissonance could be emotionally overwhelming; the stuff they do requires seemingly supercomputer-level cognition, which why their top players earn million dollar salaries.

[Leone]

Nightbird, on 09 June 2021 - 03:40 PM, said:

OP is right, lights are OP, should be nerfed.

Whaat!? But you actually pilot lights!

I would like to hear where in fact you believe the nerfbat should land.

~Leone

[Capt Deadpool]

^He's being sarcastic

[Leone]

And I was giving him the perfect oppourtunity to tell us all how the Javelin is too tall, allowing it a better vantage than the Nova, a mech 20 tonnes heavier than it!

Now we shall never get to flood this thread with sarcastic banter~♪

~Leone

[Dauntless Blint]

It's in a better balance than it has been IMO, mobility buffs for torso twist, pitch and yaw angle will help, LB5 coupled with Snubs is ok for taking on lights or Clan Heavy Lasers, Gauss too if not lock on weapons with BAP and tag.

As long as there is a chance for instagib in the front arch of an assault then it's fair, you normally get one shot to take a leg then its dinner time for the light pilot if you miss unless you have cover from a buddy or the ground you fight on is on a pitch so as to meet your crosshairs for at least half a circle dual.

Some of the weapon balance changes have turned hitting lights from flukes to reasonable levels.