Light Mechs Too Powerful
#141
Posted 10 June 2021 - 07:49 PM
#142
Posted 10 June 2021 - 09:43 PM
PIR-1 Thief +4 Longsword
Ammo isn't the best but this isn't meant for anything other than waiting for the chance to run up behind a mech and delete them. If you can kill one heavy or assault you did your duty that match and if you get lucky you might get a couple or even three.
#143
Posted 11 June 2021 - 12:22 AM
This is the one - no Heavy lasers, just instant/clean burns.
PIR-2
The MG Fish might hurt but that one is the scary boi. You see it coming, you do NOT want it behind you. Hell it can leg you mega, mega fast too where the MG one cannot.
#144
Posted 11 June 2021 - 03:24 AM
justcallme A S H, on 11 June 2021 - 12:22 AM, said:
This is the one - no Heavy lasers, just instant/clean burns.
PIR-2
The MG Fish might hurt but that one is the scary boi. You see it coming, you do NOT want it behind you. Hell it can leg you mega, mega fast too where the MG one cannot.
https://youtu.be/E_KkrTYQPEw
Go, go, Piranha!
#145
Posted 11 June 2021 - 04:15 AM
Maybe that could do with a nerf of somekind and/or a buff to structure and armour (like 10% to start off with, either with certain mechs or scale it based on class and least played or whatever.)
Idk, i see lights as mostly opportunists, assassins, distractors and support than anything else really.
#146
Posted 11 June 2021 - 05:16 AM
Their weapons on many equal a heavy or an assault.. yes most are close range but can successfully do incredible amounts of damage in a short time.
Then you have packs of them that can disable or destroy a whole lance of Assaults in minutes if not seconds..
Are they overpowered? damn right they are. Anyone saying they aren't are lying in hopes they don't get nerfed.
Edited by MechaGnome, 11 June 2021 - 05:18 AM.
#147
Posted 11 June 2021 - 05:24 AM
MechaGnome, on 11 June 2021 - 05:16 AM, said:
Their weapons on many equal a heavy or an assault.. yes most are close range but can successfully do incredible amounts of damage in a short time.
Then you have packs of them that can disable or destroy a whole lance of Assaults in minutes if not seconds..
Are they overpowered? damn right they are. Anyone saying they aren't are lying in hopes they don't get nerfed.
Sorry but while I'm normally in agreement with you I simply can't agree with this. As has been pointed out if light mechs really were OP then everyone would play them instead of heavies and assaults, but in fact they are consistently the least played class.
Some light mechs do have an OP trick up their sleeves, that's not in doubt and we all know which ones the culprits are, but to label all light mechs as OP is wrong.
Agility increases are coming later this month, we will soon see how light mechs fare once twist and pitch are improved across the board - I suspect they will rapidly disappear except for the culprits mentioned before.
#148
Posted 11 June 2021 - 05:36 AM
Khobai said:
Something inbetween false dilemma and strawman... If anything I agreed that PIRs can kill previously unharmed assaults in 5 seconds under very unrealistic / highly specific circumstances that would have to be considered "edge cases".
Khobai said:
You certaintly are not arguing in good faith, because you deliberately are employing various fallacies, outright lie and try to move goal posts not only with regards to demanded proof but with regards to your original claims as well.
Khobai said:
Check
Khobai said:
Check
Khobai said:
Incorrect
Khobai said:
No, "it" isn't and you haven't provided actual proof
Khobai said:
No you actually didn't. You even claimed: its not some fallacious edge case it literally happens all the time lol.
Khobai said:
And then I asked you to name the amount of Assault mechs that would fall into that category, because that was the context. "Somehow" you failed to answer that and "we" thus certainly never got to the point where "we" could answer the question if you were turning it even more into an edge case because now it's not an only unrealistic encounter scenario but you also cut down the number of potentially affected Assault mechs.
Khobai said:
Within all those constraints your numbers are "spot on" but still "useless"
Khobai said:
Your original claim still was and i: the problem is when 1 piranha murders you in 5 seconds. while in context of speaking about the entire weight class of "Assaults".
Now try to guess again why I tested on Assaults under conditions that came closest to the highly specific edge case scenario you decided to base your claims on while also claiming that it wasn't an edge case scenario.
Khobai said:
Noone ever said otherwise
Khobai said:
Irrelevant
Khobai said:
Nope
Khobai said:
Fun fact I: I tested within the only environment where the vast mojority of your special case constraints could be met closest
Fun fact II: You are confusing "argument" and "claim". There were no "arguments" to be countered in your claims for which you in addition to not actually having arguments also failed to provide proof.
Khobai said:
Well isn't that funny: Now we're back to that 2 vs. 1 scenario where you yourself stated earlier:
you should lose a 2 v 1
the problem is when 1 piranha murders you in 5 seconds.
Khobai said:
Fun fact: Nobody - not even me - diputed that there are (edge case) conditions under which a Piranha (be it the PIR-1, PIR-2 or PIR-2) can indeed kill in "like 5 seconds" (also note the deliberate softening of your original claim by now adding 'like') but the real "issue" still is whether or not such a 5 second kill represents a "problem" as per your original claim and whether or not the conditions you have talked about constitute an edge case scenario vs. being common enough to be considered a "problem".
Any condition where you try to skew the scenario like you did by suddenly stipulating prior damage or limiting the scenario to a subset of Assault mechs (with that 70 armor + structure caveat) or neglecting to originally mentioning the perfect shooting conditions between totally immobile opponents at perfect weapon range then turns your "argument" in intellectually dishonest attempts of deflecting
Khobai said:
Irrelevant
Khobai said:
Make up your mind then. I already quoted you on your earlier statement of "the problem is when 1 piranha murders you in 5 seconds." and then you proceded to talk about a scenario where mech size (scaling) is irrelevant and pitch doesn't come into play (because the PIR supposedly attacks a full unhindered 5 seconds from behind) and being without support by team members also is the default assumption to make your "problem" work.
Khobai said:
Stawman argument because I never said you had made that particular claim ... and an attempt to deflect from the direct implication of your original claim: "the problem is when 1 piranha murders you in 5 seconds."
Because the implication of that claim is that at least the PIRs are "overpowered" in some sense ... otherwise they could never logically pose a "problem".
Khobai said:
Again you're conveniently ignoring your own claim: "the problem is when 1 piranha murders you in 5 seconds."
Khobai said:
Oh, so then a Piranha murdering a mech in 5 seconds isn't a problem at all? ~laugh~
Khobai said:
And that's what's called non-sequitur ... yet another fallacy and driven in part by your intellectual dishonesty
So now I'm really "done" with you in here.
Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 11 June 2021 - 05:45 AM.
#149
Posted 11 June 2021 - 05:47 AM
Threads like this make me really really wish you had to advance from light to medium to heavy to assault.
Seriously, this would stop threads like this in its tracks.
Some lights are strong, especially in the right hands, but the vast majority of them are Tier 4-5
Edited by Darian DelFord, 11 June 2021 - 05:50 AM.
#150
Posted 11 June 2021 - 06:44 AM
Peoples mouths are foaming when they are preaching about 5-6 second assault kill with piranha from behind within ~150meters and same time almost every assault mech in the game can 1 shot piranha from any direction and usually with range multiple times MGs optimal or max range.
If something feels OP go play it, try it for 10-20 games... if it still feels stupid OP, then make a post and present screenshots/videos to have some weight behind that opinion.
PS. and yes there are some insanely good light pilots or was at least that can make lights look OP but 95% of player base CANNOT match that performance, not even close.
#151
Posted 11 June 2021 - 06:44 AM
Darian DelFord, on 11 June 2021 - 05:47 AM, said:
Threads like this make me really really wish you had to advance from light to medium to heavy to assault.
Seriously, this would stop threads like this in its tracks.
Some lights are strong, especially in the right hands, but the vast majority of them are Tier 4-5
Ye, they are good at harassment, anti-light operations, skirmishing, peeking, assassinations (very hard to pull off against good and/or aware players), scouting and general 2nd line or 3rd line support.
I think it's because when people think of assault mech they think of a large very powerful and incredibly durable mech that can weather the barrage of multiple mechs at once and still cause considerable damage.
Although i think peeps forget all mechs get access to the same types of weapons with the same type of power, heat and range (obviously clan and IS are somewhat different but still.) So when they get killed by some mech that barely reaches their assaults knee cap from behind, thats what probs triggers them off in general.
I've heard that lights in MW5 become pointless after sometime or far less used anyways when you get the bigger walkers onto the field instead.
#152
Posted 11 June 2021 - 07:45 AM
MechaGnome, on 11 June 2021 - 05:16 AM, said:
Lag Shield?
I play with 240ms++. At the highest level in the game. It is simply not a thing, at all.
MWO uses Host State Rewind and it is explained in great detail.
---> CLICK ME <---
You should understand how the game works before making completely false claims.
Edited by justcallme A S H, 11 June 2021 - 08:08 AM.
#153
Posted 11 June 2021 - 07:57 AM
It reminds me, in a humorous way, that there's no real substitute for knowing what you're doing and spending time and effort practicing. If one is consistently unable to hit light 'Mechs, it is not due to a 'Lag Shield' or lights being too fast to see. It is due to one's aim not being good enough. Now, I'm not a Church of Skill adherent who believes that the ability to click a funky crosshair pointer on a certain set of pixels no matter the duress I'm under is a Supreme Talent that must be cultivated to the exclusion of all else. I firmly believe lock-on and other "Bad Aim Forgiveness" weapons absolutely have a place not only in MWO, but in most any shooter. But...well.
Mebbe consider whether you need 2300 dollars' worth of training before complaining that Lights are Ohh-Pee on the forums.
The other thing that ol' meme is good for is reminding me not to spend an absurd amount of money I really don't have on gussied-up gamer guns too fancy for their own good, no matter how much I wanna shoot 'em. A lesson which is also good to keep in mind for MWO, come to think of it...
#154
Posted 11 June 2021 - 08:01 AM
In that context lights do seem fast and hard to hit, but with more diverse gaming experience they aren't particularly fast or difficult to click on.
#155
Posted 11 June 2021 - 08:18 AM
justcallme A S H, on 11 June 2021 - 07:45 AM, said:
Lag Shield?
I play with 240ms++. At the highest level in the game. It is simply not a thing, at all.
MWO uses Host State Rewind and it is explained in great detail.
---> CLICK ME <---
You should understand how the game works before making completely false claims.
Yup Yup....... Lag shield ain't been a thing in years, unless the servers are acting wonky but that is a rarity, and usually then all kinds of strange things happen. <Attempts to find The B33F's video but can't find it)
#156
Posted 11 June 2021 - 08:51 AM
#157
Posted 11 June 2021 - 09:06 AM
Curccu, on 11 June 2021 - 06:44 AM, said:
Peoples mouths are foaming when they are preaching about 5-6 second assault kill with piranha from behind within ~150meters and same time almost every assault mech in the game can 1 shot piranha from any direction and usually with range multiple times MGs optimal or max range.
If something feels OP go play it, try it for 10-20 games... if it still feels stupid OP, then make a post and present screenshots/videos to have some weight behind that opinion.
PS. and yes there are some insanely good light pilots or was at least that can make lights look OP but 95% of player base CANNOT match that performance, not even close.
Do you really think it's that hard? Please note, that it's trial 'Mech and I have 0 Light piloting experience.
Edited by MrMadguy, 11 June 2021 - 09:08 AM.
#158
Posted 11 June 2021 - 09:10 AM
#159
Posted 11 June 2021 - 09:54 AM
MrMadguy, on 11 June 2021 - 09:06 AM, said:
You do realize that any player can do this for literally any mech they 'don't have experience with', that a 2-kill 570 damage game can be achieved in any mech, that you are disregarding all metrics and statistics relating to the relative effectiveness of the four weight classes, and that your post proves absolutely nothing?
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