83 replies to this topic

[LordBraxton]

1453 R, on 24 June 2021 - 09:02 AM, said:

Reminder: this mobility pass wasn't to fix competitive balance. it was to set the stage properly for the quirk pass to finish fixing competitive balance.

Weapon Pass: make all the weapons fun again, or at least much closer to it. Defer "Full Balance", endure the shrieks of "BUT U DIDNT BALANCE STUF!"

etc.

ok ill hold my breath and check in and see after the quirk pass? I hope to see mechs like the centurion with +30 armor quirks across the board then?

My point was, the worst underperformers needed the agility advantage as WELL as the quirks, unless they go bonkers and start giving underplayed mechs MASSIVE quirks, which might upset people because their precious meta mechs suddenly feel like glass cannons.

By not using the agility pass to buff underperformers, they have left EVERYTHING to quirks, which means we need to see psycho level quirks like the OG pass to balance anything. I kinda #doubt we will see that.

[SafeScanner]

MechNexus, on 24 June 2021 - 08:59 AM, said:

I am once again asking you to just shoot the bloody fish

Seriously, it's not hard. Take a leg, or drill their CT if they're daft enough to try and stare at you without moving. The only thing they got that would realistically make them harder to kill is an increase in turn rate (not torso twist), but I don't know how that'd play into the usual circlestrafe maneuver a lot of backstab lights employ, if at all.

or knock out a shoulder to slow it down and knock out 50% of the weapons the pir class are running glass cannons not much of a threat if you know where they are at

[Curccu]

well few games down with OPs build and running out of ammo superfast, so IMO PIR 2/3 Better

[1453 R]

Braxton.

Mobility can be changed later, too.

This whole idea of "We needed to knock forty points of turnspeed and fifty or more points of accel/decel off the Piranha because it has GUNS!" is ridiculous. You don't balance the game that way. The first mobility pass here was designed to get 'Mechs to where the Cauldron figures they prolly ought to be. Mobility adjustments next month will address problems that arise from this months' patch. Passes after that will adjust as needed.

Let the process do its job. This is ACTUAL iterative balance. If the team is not allowed to iterate, you will get no balance.

Also yes, Nexus is correct. Just shoot the friggin' fish. Even if all you can do is sweep lasers across it, it's a Piranha. It can only shrug off so many sweeps with its magical twenty points of torso armor.

You don't have to hit it hard. You don't have to hit it often. You just have to hit it and it won't be too terrible long before it stops bothering you, either for fear of its li'l fishy life or because it's dead now.

[Darian DelFord]

LOL, because of this I actually logged in to play several matches with the OP Cipher. My loadout has not changed, my alpha has not changed, my tactics have not changed. Yet I do not see how the agility pass made this "OP" So in cases like this we have to ask..........


Can you show us where the light mech touched you?

Edited by Darian DelFord, 24 June 2021 - 09:36 AM.

[1453 R]

And multipost, sorry, but the ammo thing is curious so I decided to indulge in some theoretical Fish Heresy

Drop the engine to an XL170 instead of the maximized 180 and you gain half a ton of machine gun ammo in exchange for 'bout eight kph footspeed. That's 50% more damage from the machine guns. I don't know the fire rate of machine guns offhand and so can't calculate the total fire time you get per ton of ammunition, but the extra half-ton could be pretty useful. And frankly, anyone who has trouble hitting a Piranha at 150kph is gonna have trouble hitting it at 140kph.

Personally I think I'd go with LMGs specifically to alleviate the ammo issue. Yes, standard machine guns better match the range profile of the uPLS and do better DPS, but the LMGs have better endurance. Hell, replace the arm-mounted uPLS with uERLs for a negligible loss in DPS and you get two full tons of ammo for whichever machine guns you use. Go with LMGs and the ER micros better match up there. Probably a bonus as negligible as the lost DPS, but you could at least fish for crits on open components at 200, 250 meters.

One could also just run uERLs in generalover the uPLs. Get back that maximized XL180, keep both tons of LMG ammo, and free up the weight for an AMS with half a ton of ammo to help blunt Streak issues. Or run the eleventh heat sink just because you heckin' can, ensure you never have to stop shooting for anything. Would be worth the experiment to see if the cERL/LMG arrangement's improved reach offsets the lost DPS. I think I may just cave and buy a Cipher the next time it's on sale, yeah. Name it "NoShootyPlz" and see how many people pay attention.

[SafeScanner]

1453 R, on 24 June 2021 - 09:37 AM, said:

And multipost, sorry, but the ammo thing is curious so I decided to indulge in some theoretical Fish Heresy

Drop the engine to an XL170 instead of the maximized 180 and you gain half a ton of machine gun ammo in exchange for 'bout eight kph footspeed. That's 50% more damage from the machine guns. I don't know the fire rate of machine guns offhand and so can't calculate the total fire time you get per ton of ammunition, but the extra half-ton could be pretty useful. And frankly, anyone who has trouble hitting a Piranha at 150kph is gonna have trouble hitting it at 140kph.

Personally I think I'd go with LMGs specifically to alleviate the ammo issue. Yes, standard machine guns better match the range profile of the uPLS and do better DPS, but the LMGs have better endurance. Hell, replace the arm-mounted uPLS with uERLs for a negligible loss in DPS and you get two full tons of ammo for whichever machine guns you use. Go with LMGs and the ER micros better match up there. Probably a bonus as negligible as the lost DPS, but you could at least fish for crits on open components at 200, 250 meters.

One could also just run uERLs in generalover the uPLs. Get back that maximized XL180, keep both tons of LMG ammo, and free up the weight for an AMS with half a ton of ammo to help blunt Streak issues. Or run the eleventh heat sink just because you heckin' can, ensure you never have to stop shooting for anything. Would be worth the experiment to see if the cERL/LMG arrangement's improved reach offsets the lost DPS. I think I may just cave and buy a Cipher the next time it's on sale, yeah. Name it "NoShootyPlz" and see how many people pay attention.

bring it i like a challenge or we can join forces and create a symphony of tears and sorrow

at this point i feel like we need to get light pir wolfpacks going and watch the forums roar

Edited by SafeScanner, 24 June 2021 - 09:59 AM.

[Horseman]

w0qj, on 24 June 2021 - 06:20 AM, said:

If some Assaults (aka Cyclops) did not get mobility/agility boost, why should Piranha chassis get mobility/agility boosts?

Cyclops already had boosted mobility parameters, that's why it didn't get buffed more.

[Wid1046]

Darian DelFord, on 24 June 2021 - 09:36 AM, said:

[redacted]
Can you show us where the light mech touched you?

That diagram doesn't show armor plates, those are bullet holes.

[Darian DelFord]

Wid1046, on 24 June 2021 - 10:18 AM, said:

That diagram doesn't show armor plates, those are bullet holes.

Death by a thousand micropulse lasers

[Wid1046]

Horseman, on 24 June 2021 - 10:08 AM, said:

Cyclops already had boosted mobility parameters, that's why it didn't get buffed more.

That doesn't seem like a great reason for ignoring mediocre mechs like the Zeus and Gargoyle that rely on agility. With most other Assaults closing the gap in agility, they'll have trouble clinging even to their mediocrity.

They could of course be fixed in the quirk patches, but since no-one knows what will be in those we have to judge things based on the information available.

[Maker L106]

Was going to make a long winded post about the perceived problem with lights in MWO. but really I just hope this ends up as a "hey guys the skill tree finally got reworked" and that horrid 91 point abomination gets weeded down to a far far more reasonable choice selection. Maybe this is in prep for that?

[Leone]

w0qj, on 24 June 2021 - 06:20 AM, said:

Just look at PIR-2, with 15x energy hardpoints!
We are still left grappling with this ignominious legacy of hardpoint inflation in the name of sales.

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Piranha
That thing is cannon. There was no bloat. They merely implemented their namesake well.

w0qj, on 24 June 2021 - 06:20 AM, said:

b ) How about putting in a diminishing energy damage returns for boating 8+ weapons of the same/similar class?
(Even this does not help much with Piranha Cipher though, but it does mitigate PIR-1 and PIR-2 type of boating).

You are a terrible person, and I don't want you anywhere near my mechs.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 24 June 2021 - 10:41 AM.

[1453 R]

Wid1046, on 24 June 2021 - 10:29 AM, said:

That doesn't seem like a great reason for ignoring mediocre mechs like the Zeus and Gargoyle that rely on agility. With most other Assaults closing the gap in agility, they'll have trouble clinging even to their mediocrity.

They could of course be fixed in the quirk patches, but since no-one knows what will be in those we have to judge things based on the information available.

Just to note: part of "the information available" is the information that sweeping, ground-up quirk rebalances are coming within the next few months.

Seriously, folks. Seriously. The sky is not falling. And even if it was, that just means you get a great chance to do your best James Bond impressions while the Cauldron puts up some joists and works on getting the ozone layer patched up again.

[Wid1046]

Maker L106, on 24 June 2021 - 10:37 AM, said:

Was going to make a long winded post about the perceived problem with lights in MWO. but really I just hope this ends up as a "hey guys the skill tree finally got reworked" and that horrid 91 point abomination gets weeded down to a far far more reasonable choice selection. Maybe this is in prep for that?

The Cauldron has said that they hope to change the skill tree at some point, but I don't expect that it'll happen anytime soon. The quirk patches won't be done until September at the earliest, so possibly October or November. Hopefully they don't need PGI to do too much in support of it since it'll likely be sometime after rescale in that case and well, rescale might happen at some point in the future, maybe (on an unrelated note, this time next week marks the three month anniversary of the last twice-a-month Dev VLog).

[justcallme A S H]

LordBraxton, on 24 June 2021 - 08:38 AM, said:

+1

Said this in another thread, the agility pass makes no sense. Top tier mechs and overperformers often get similar buffs as mechs who are never chosen. Underpicked mechs needed big buffs, powerful mechs needed little to no buff. Seems like the decision was based on whatever mechs people who were making the decisions like to pilot.

Which Top Tier mechs are getting buffs to the same level as underperforming ones?

[Nightbird]

justcallme A S H, on 24 June 2021 - 12:53 PM, said:

Which Top Tier mechs are getting buffs to the same level as underperforming ones?

Try Mad Cat MK II, Blood Asp, versus King Crab, Mauler

[FinnMcKool]

I thought the same when i first saw it, but then i remembered that there are still changes yet to come, its only part of a bigger picture

that said what bothers me is the insane Alpha these things have,

[Meep Meep]

So no one is going to talk about that even if you invest in survival you are still pretty much a one shot to anything with around 20~30 alpha? Pir have always been assassins that quickly exploit a lapse in situational awareness to get in a backstab. If they get noticed they die soon after. Lets give the patch some time to percolate before we start screaming nerf nerf nerf like it's the old days of boomerang balance.

[Sjorpha]

D A T A, on 24 June 2021 - 05:17 AM, said:

Just try a piranha cipher 9microp 6mg

How do you build that?

I'm trying but I can only make it work with LMGs or ER micros, not with micropulses and mgs.