92 replies to this topic

[Wildstreak]

MechNexus, on 18 July 2021 - 08:22 AM, said:

To add onto this, the atlas, like any mech in the game, will absoloutely melt under sustained fire if you just stare at the enemy. However, if you utilise it's extremely narrow CT hitbox running through most of the body by staying on top of your twisting, you can roll an impressive amount of damage. Utilise high impact, slow firing weaponry like Snub PPCs, Heavy gauss, SRMs, MRMs, and AC/LB/UAC20s to maximise damage for minimal facetime. There's a reason why almost every atlas build is primarially a ballistics+missiles brawler.

I would disagree on Gauss (Charge Time), MRMs (Stream Time) and UAC (Multi-shot Time), while not as much face time as RACs needed they still require some time staring thus are less of the Burst Damage type.

[PocketYoda]

I twist, i turn it makes no difference, as by the time i do, the damage was already done with high ping times.. you can say "host rewind" until you are blue in the face but i see it daily when i play the damage hits you long before you twist or fire. Racs or no racs.. it makes zero difference my end.
https://mwomercs.com...rewind-phase-1/

Definitely not working as intended my end.

https://mwomercs.com...-rewindand-you/

Quote

It is dependent on shooter and target ping... 2 players with 250 ms will exceed hsr

https://mwomercs.com...t-state-rewind/

I learnt a lot about Host State rewind and nothing good.. So AC20 are fine for low ping US/EU customers.. Not for me.

Off topic yes but could explain a massive issue everyone seems to be avoiding.

Edited by MechaGnome, 18 July 2021 - 06:15 PM.

[MyriadDigits]

Wildstreak, on 18 July 2021 - 04:58 PM, said:

I would disagree on Gauss (Charge Time), MRMs (Stream Time) and UAC (Multi-shot Time), while not as much face time as RACs needed they still require some time staring thus are less of the Burst Damage type.

MRMs and UACs, yeah, but Gauss charge literally doesn't matter here. You can charge the Gauss while looking away and release when you twist back to shoot.

[Christof Romulus]

Since coming back to MWO I have rekindled my love for the AC 20.

After the release of the UAC 20 for the IS, many of my mechs swapped over, thus side-lining the original majestic weapon that carried me through most of my MWO career. The UAC 20 has its benefits, including oppressively high burst DPS, but due to the nature of the UAC it spreads it's nearly 20 damage all over the place making it worse and worse the smaller and faster your target is.

The AC 20 exchanges this potential burst for unmatched pinpoint reliability. Yes, the Heavy Gauss is in the game, but the number of critical locations limit it to basically only Assault battlemechs, and while you can pre-charge it (and by can, I mean must), you can't always have it available to snap-off on a peeking mech or a fast moving light. Nearly all of my medium mechs with a torso ballistic hardpoint, or an arm hardpoint that can mount it now use the AC 20 again and it is phenomenal.

20 pinpoint damage that can not be twisted or spread across the body locations absolutely slaps. It's been said in this thread that the AC 20 seems better and better the longer a match continues, as it will slap through damage mechs as well - and this is absolutely true. It starts out amazing and becomes an all-star the longer a match continues.

I find that in the current iteration of the game, the AC 20 isn't the end-all-be-all heavy ballistic weapon, but it finally has a place where it excels against its contemporary cohort of heavy ballistic firepower.

[Castigatus]

MechaGnome, on 18 July 2021 - 05:37 PM, said:

I twist, i turn it makes no difference, as by the time i do, the damage was already done with high ping times.. you can say "host rewind" until you are blue in the face but i see it daily when i play the damage hits you long before you twist or fire. Racs or no racs.. it makes zero difference my end.
https://mwomercs.com...rewind-phase-1/

Definitely not working as intended my end.

https://mwomercs.com...-rewindand-you/



https://mwomercs.com...t-state-rewind/

I learnt a lot about Host State rewind and nothing good.. So AC20 are fine for low ping US/EU customers.. Not for me.

Off topic yes but could explain a massive issue everyone seems to be avoiding.

No one is ignoring anything, you are literally the only person on this forum who has spoken out about having issues of this type. Now obviously that by itself doesnt mean it doesn't happen to others but even if it does you are making it out to be far more of a problem than it actually is. Not to mention I have to agree with people earlier pointing out that you've been given a bunch of possible solutions and instead continued to make excuses and claim there are problems rather than trying any of them.

Also, you outright admitted in that post it's a problem at your end so why is it up to PGI to try and fix an issue that probably has nothing to do with them in the first place given it's at your end and not theirs?

[Zordicron]

AC20. Useless?
By itself, no question. Everyone defending it will tell you to pair it with snubs or missiles or more dakka.

But it used to be feared, even by itself.
This is supposed to be a battletech game, but a YLW or a Hunchie is a freegin joke nowdays. Maybe they should add a quirk that doubles AC20 dmg for those mechs, maybe it would let them keep pace.
OH NO! A 20 point slug from point blank range! (returns fire at 400m with a 79 point laser barf alpha that has a similar cooldown)

[justcallme A S H]

MechaGnome, on 18 July 2021 - 05:37 PM, said:

I twist, i turn it makes no difference, as by the time i do, the damage was already done with high ping times.. you can say "host rewind" until you are blue in the face but i see it daily when i play the damage hits you long before you twist or fire. Racs or no racs.. it makes zero difference my end.
https://mwomercs.com...rewind-phase-1/

Definitely not working as intended my end.

https://mwomercs.com...-rewindand-you/



https://mwomercs.com...t-state-rewind/

I learnt a lot about Host State rewind and nothing good.. So AC20 are fine for low ping US/EU customers.. Not for me.

Off topic yes but could explain a massive issue everyone seems to be avoiding.

Stop blaming your ping - which is the same ping I play with - on your poor performance.

If I can play at the top/highest level of the game with high ping day in, day out. Youcan as well.

Your issue is not your ping. Not remotely.

[Castigatus]

Zordicron, on 26 July 2021 - 07:09 PM, said:

AC20. Useless?
By itself, no question. Everyone defending it will tell you to pair it with snubs or missiles or more dakka.

But it used to be feared, even by itself.
This is supposed to be a battletech game, but a YLW or a Hunchie is a freegin joke nowdays. Maybe they should add a quirk that doubles AC20 dmg for those mechs, maybe it would let them keep pace.
OH NO! A 20 point slug from point blank range! (returns fire at 400m with a 79 point laser barf alpha that has a similar cooldown)

Great, now count the number of mech chassis that can actually fit and fire that kind of laser alpha without roasting themselves compared to the number of mechs that can fit an AC20 and fire it pretty much continuously with no issues, I bet you'll find the second list is quite a bit bigger than the first. Not to mention that laser alpha is most likely subject to burn times and is affected far more by movement than a single AC20 shot.

[pattonesque]

You’re also comparing the output of one weapon to the output of several. AC/20s typically are paired with SRMs or ML/MPLs which ups that alpha significantly

[PocketYoda]

justcallme A S H, on 26 July 2021 - 07:14 PM, said:

Stop blaming your ping - which is the same ping I play with - on your poor performance.

If I can play at the top/highest level of the game with high ping day in, day out. Youcan as well.

Your issue is not your ping. Not remotely.

I bet you can get NBN where you are.. I bet you are not on ADSL. I cannot get it here in Queensland. I can only use what i can use..

pattonesque, on 27 July 2021 - 03:55 AM, said:

You’re also comparing the output of one weapon to the output of several. AC/20s typically are paired with SRMs or ML/MPLs which ups that alpha significantly

I was using paired AC20 on my mauler.

Edited by MechaGnome, 27 July 2021 - 05:22 AM.

[HenryFA]

Constant 240+ping player here

Meh, AC20 is fine

[Castigatus]

MechaGnome, on 27 July 2021 - 05:19 AM, said:

I bet you can get NBN where you are.. I bet you are not on ADSL. I cannot get it here in Queensland. I can only use what i can use..



I was using paired AC20 on my mauler.

Your internet being awful is not PGI's problem and doesn't make the AC20 a bad weapon either, it just means your internet is awful. And if it's something to do with network routing then guess what, also not something that PGI can solve for you and also not something that makes AC20s a bad weapon.

You are putting the blame in the wrong place if you think otherwise.

Edited by Castigatus, 27 July 2021 - 05:57 AM.

[pattonesque]

MechaGnome, on 27 July 2021 - 05:19 AM, said:

I bet you can get NBN where you are.. I bet you are not on ADSL. I cannot get it here in Queensland. I can only use what i can use..



I was using paired AC20 on my mauler.

I was talking about the guy comparing a single AC/20 to a full clan laservomit array

[Fresh Produce]

The only problem I have with current ac/20s is the ammo to tonnage ratio. I think the game would benefit from normalizing the maximum possible damage output per ton of ammo across weapon systems. I personally would be in favor of something in the ball park of 200 damage per a ton of ammo, which would give the ac20 10 shots per ton.

[Gas Guzzler]

Nightbird, on 11 July 2021 - 10:28 AM, said:

AC20's range is short, you're gimping yourself if you don't take mid range in QP. Brawling can work on the right maps, but you not going to get them continuously.

It's not like SRMs that is light enough to fit onto a fast skirmisher.

Something like AC20 and SNPPCs isn't too bad because its still somewhat effective past its optimum range

[Gas Guzzler]

pattonesque, on 27 July 2021 - 06:45 AM, said:

I was talking about the guy comparing a single AC/20 to a full clan laservomit array

IKR?

Because everyone playing a YLW with an AC20 tries to trade with Clan heavy-assault laser boats and expects to win face to face trades... /s

[justcallme A S H]

MechaGnome, on 27 July 2021 - 05:19 AM, said:

I bet you can get NBN where you are.. I bet you are not on ADSL. I cannot get it here in Queensland. I can only use what i can use..

I've played MWO on ADSL2+, Cable, HFC, Fibre. No issues.

MWO is not sending a terrabyte of data down or up the line. As long as your latency is good, which it will be no matter the connection. I could play on 56k and I am sure there would not be a problem with MWO as you keep trying to state.

I won't play on mobile/Wi-Fi as generally there is latency there absolutely causes issues if it's high although that is not bein talked about here.

Either was the AC20 is not useless and as I've stated many times, your issues are your own.

[Zordicron]

Castigatus, on 27 July 2021 - 03:42 AM, said:

Great, now count the number of mech chassis that can actually fit and fire that kind of laser alpha without roasting themselves compared to the number of mechs that can fit an AC20 and fire it pretty much continuously with no issues, I bet you'll find the second list is quite a bit bigger than the first. Not to mention that laser alpha is most likely subject to burn times and is affected far more by movement than a single AC20 shot.

Lots of mechs can boat lasers.
What exactly is a YLW supposed to loadout with to compete again?

You missed the whole point. There were mechs that were built entirely around the formidable presence of a single AC20 that could easily compete in the game. The mechs are still there, collecting dust in old timers hangers. Those mechs were infamous
for their signature weapon. Now they are laughed off the field.

At one point some years back, people mounting TWO AC20's was making other people's minds explode with rage and vitriol on the forums demanding giga nerfs. PGI added ghost heat. Those days are long gone, because the "new" weapons and the balance changes have made an AC20 either a side weapon or part of a pinpoint alpha with other weapons.

It used to be feared on it's own The Pontiac 100 AC20 was almost a forum meme when people were actually afraid of a YLW.

[pattonesque]

Zordicron, on 27 July 2021 - 06:10 PM, said:

Lots of mechs can boat lasers.
What exactly is a YLW supposed to loadout with to compete again?

that's kind of an issue with the YLW though, and Centurions in general. I'd hope they'd get a lot of love on the upcoming quirk passes

[Zordicron]

pattonesque, on 27 July 2021 - 06:23 PM, said:

that's kind of an issue with the YLW though, and Centurions in general. I'd hope they'd get a lot of love on the upcoming quirk passes

My original comment was everyone saying AC20 is great are putting it in as part of a weapons package, and that on it's own it is pretty lame. PGI doesn't want players to boat them as evidenced by ghost heat. The status of the weapon has changed dramatically over the years.
Not that it is alone there, but I can't think of another one that has seen such a dramatic fall from grace from where it's status was to where it is now.