113 replies to this topic

[John Bronco]

VeeOt Dragon, on 02 August 2021 - 07:27 PM, said:

anyone can do well in a meta mech with a meta build.

Funny when I play this game I frequently see people fail to do well with strong builds, but I do agree good pilots can make just about any build work.

Edited by John Bronco, 02 August 2021 - 08:50 PM.

[Vxheous]

VeeOt Dragon, on 02 August 2021 - 07:27 PM, said:

as someone who actually enjoys mixed or lore builds i have only one thing to say on the meta subject.

anyone can do well in a meta mech with a meta build. the real challenge and fun is to do just as well in a so called "trash mech" with a sub optimal build.

Funny that when PGI held a *gasp* stock IS only 3039 tech MWO World Championship in 2018, the same strongest teams still dominated the competition. It's almost as if top players can make anything work, and bad players thinking meta is a crutch....still lose when no one has "meta".

[Bennesto]

VeeOt Dragon, on 02 August 2021 - 07:27 PM, said:

anyone can do well in a meta mech with a meta build.

No.

[Thorqemada]

pattonesque, on 02 August 2021 - 03:10 PM, said:

my understanding is that there's a proposal for a heavily simplified skill tree -- it'll just take an engineer to implement

That may be - but will it happen when it still makes a difference or when it is to little to late?

[The Basilisk]

Gagis, on 02 August 2021 - 12:32 AM, said:

Current trajectory is enough for next year, but the year after that depends on MWO getting some sort of endgame content.

There is a distinctive skill gap in Tier 1 Quick Play between good quick play players and top end competitive players, and that gap is where countless players have quit the game after "completing" quick play and having no further challenge to keep them interested. Faction play was supposed to be the end game people move into at that point, but it is dead. Competitive play serves for some but it requires the kind of time and dedication that many cannot afford, so it is not enough to sustain a population of players.

2022 will have to be the actual year of FP or there will have to be some new alternative end game for the game to stop hemorrhaging skilled players. There's just not enough to keep players engaged once they get as good as they can get in quick play matches.

The map updates and Cauldron's work are important intensive care to keep the game alive, but not enough to heal it.

Well....yyyeeeeeeaaa....no...just no.
You did not get the problem.

There may be some very outspoken loud and engaged players playing comp....but those realy are not the majority of players.
And that is where all this cauldron and balance and stuff completely fails.

There are 3 groups of players in this game:
1. Players that are mainly here for this beeing an official BT-Universe Mecha sim where they can fool around with their friends easily.
2. Lovers of the Mechwarrior Computer Games line.
3. PPl that got brought here of members from the above two groups and stayed here for some reason or an other.

And then there is a little faction that pulls from all three of this groups and is called "comp players"

See what I mean? To get the game going again you have to do the 2 out of 3 movement that every buisiness has to do to be minimal viable. And since Group 3 has no discernable points of interests that aren't also inherent to 1 or 2 those are the Target groups that have to be catered to...comp simply does not matter at this point.

You have to bring more viable Battletech or mechwarrior content into the game again.
-- For BT this is more storry more drama more Mechs and lore.
-- For Mechwarrior this is more and better game mechanics, more weapons, maps and missions, thought out environmentals, and.... yea more mechs

What realy is not needed is more BS like cockpit items, bolt ons, camos and decals....its a nice addon sure it adds flavor ...but this only keeps the meal tasty for so long and MWO isn't exactly fresh anymore...

Edited by The Basilisk, 03 August 2021 - 01:20 AM.

[Gagis]

Did you even read what I wrote? I said that comp is currently the only kind of end-game content we have, and since it is suitable only for a minority of players, it is not sufficient.

The lack of endgame means that players from each of your groups 1, 2 and 3 are likely to quit after they have learned all that Quick Play can teach them and have no feeling of progress available anymore.

[crazytimes]

I play to finish events and that's it. The shift to monthly events means I can finish it in a couple of sessions... and then there's very little incentive to play.

The net effect of the changes has been to not really change the core playing experience in any meaningful way. Adjusting percentage points on weapon and torso movement values doesn't change the core game play loop of queue up for quick play, hope you don't get wrecked by a 1% 4 man group, rinse and repeat.

I have every mech I want, plus a few I only bought on a whim and can't even be bothered selling. Plenty of empty bays, about 1/2 billIon in credits, thousands of MC, 12 different shades of red paint, and not sure I'll even bother with the next free mech.

[Bud Crue]

Wid1046, on 02 August 2021 - 02:43 PM, said:

Unless you have a very strange definition of 'pretty short order', then that simply isn't true. Even on sale an Ultraviolet costs 4687 MC which is more MC than you'll get in 6 months even if you're really lucky in the loot bag events and likely more than you'll get in 9 months. And as I pointed out earlier new players will likely be buying quite a few mechbays using the MC that they do get, so it will likely take even longer. If a new ftp player is interested in a few of the hero assaults it would take years to get enough MC to buy more than a couple. Years is definitely not 'in pretty short order'.

But it is true. Between March and July (5 months) I bought an Ultraviolet, and with this last round of loot bag MC had enough for a Death Strike. That is just on pure MC winnings. Sure 5 months is a "long time" in terms of a brand new players potential interest, but we aren't talking about brand new players, but any players choosing to play without spending money. 2 of the most expensive (best?) mechs in the game acquired in 5 months seems pretty reasonable to me. Not to mention I've also been awarded all the free mechs as well, and while they may not be "premium," for a new player they are a boon.

I'll grant that for a new player starting off fresh, playing only one game a day it is slower going. I know this because last month I was inspired to start an alt ("The Bud") after a thread about how long it takes to get to T1, to see how rough it would be starting out and only brawling. I have played only 37 matches and have a free Atlas, the Grasshopper 5J that I bought, and a K9 that I bought with free MC. That to me is pretty short order to get 2 free mechs of which one is arguably the best light in the game.

To pretend that this game, in its current state is somehow not encouraging to ftp players is just delusional. We get so much free stuff and so quickly (if you actually play the game) that there is no reason to spend money at all.

[Wid1046]

pattonesque, on 02 August 2021 - 03:10 PM, said:

my understanding is that there's a proposal for a heavily simplified skill tree -- it'll just take an engineer to implement

They released a proposal for a changed skill tree last year, however it was more of a sidegrade than an upgrade.

Edit: I'm not saying that they can't create a good replacement for the skill tree, just that we don't really have any information on whether or not they've done it yet. They also released a list of some terrible quirk changes previously and they are obviously fixing those before they release the quirk patches.

Edited by Wid1046, 03 August 2021 - 03:18 AM.

[Storming Angel]

Wid1046, on 03 August 2021 - 03:08 AM, said:

They released a proposal for a changed skill tree last year, however it was more of a sidegrade than an upgrade.

Edit: I'm not saying that they can't create a good replacement for the skill tree, just that we don't really have any information on whether or not they've done it yet. They also released a list of some terrible quirk changes previously and they are obviously fixing those before they release the quirk patches.

Makes me wonder if the cauldron could nudge pgi to make a better skill system.

[Attercop]

All the Cauldron is doing, for all their good intent, is being morticians and painting a corpse to make it a little prettier before it rots away entirely.

[Daneel Hazen]

pattonesque, on 02 August 2021 - 05:12 PM, said:

yeah like, guess what, even if you play TT Battletech with no customization there is a way to powergame it, just try going up against a Hellstar

This is what I think when I see this also. I haven't met many people who play vanilla classic. Even when you do the game takes ALL DAY for just 4 mechs let alone 8v8 or 12v12. I'm not huge on the guys saying this is an FPS and should move like one but a direct translation is just not possible and even if it were people still game the original and also alpha strike.

Edited by Daneel Hazen, 03 August 2021 - 07:20 AM.

[Davegt27]

basically as time went on the red bar not only increased but it also move along to areas that had higher and higher avg match score

now almost every match score category the retired players exceed the active players

what the caldron is doing generates hype but it won't work

you will have to dig into the code

going back and reviewing past pod casts will tell you when things started to go south

[HauptmanT]

Average casual player here.

MWO is a fun game, but at it's very heart, it's just a shooter with a little bit of "character" (mech) building and a basic "leveling system" (more filled mech bays). It's fun in short bursts, but gets repetitive and 'boring' pretty quickly. But it's also one of those games you'll always happily come back to for another burst.

It will contnue to exist, continue to be played until it has direct competition that is just plain better. I dont mean knock off games, I mean an actual Mechwarrior IP. All those knock offs dont cut it, I want my Locust, I want my Wasp *cough* HINT *cough*. I want my Madcat. I want my Atlas.

If FASA doesnt lease out the IP to another game company, or OK a MWOII to PGI, then I firmly believe we will all still be coming back here for another decade easily. It's Battletech bro! Pew pew pew!

[pattonesque]

HauptmanT, on 03 August 2021 - 12:01 PM, said:

Average casual player here.

MWO is a fun game, but at it's very heart, it's just a shooter with a little bit of "character" (mech) building and a basic "leveling system" (more filled mech bays). It's fun in short bursts, but gets repetitive and 'boring' pretty quickly. But it's also one of those games you'll always happily come back to for another burst.

It will contnue to exist, continue to be played until it has direct competition that is just plain better. I dont mean knock off games, I mean an actual Mechwarrior IP. All those knock offs dont cut it, I want my Locust, I want my Wasp *cough* HINT *cough*. I want my Madcat. I want my Atlas.

If FASA doesnt lease out the IP to another game company, or OK a MWOII to PGI, then I firmly believe we will all still be coming back here for another decade easily. It's Battletech bro! Pew pew pew!

yeah MWO has a special power in that people really like piloting stompy robots they saw in MW2 or moved around on a grid map in a game store. the brand is small, but strong.

[Wildstreak]

pattonesque, on 02 August 2021 - 01:29 PM, said:

Most games have extremely casual playerbases -- the people who play a thousand games a month, or even a hundred, are a relatively small percentage of the total population

The point you are making is what?
Lots of gamers know this, it does not counter or refute what I said.

Actually begs a question.
Not sure if Jarl would do this but he seems able or he could let someone else do the work.
What if he could provide more data for a better picture?
10 games over an unspecified time period alone is not enough.

Instead add this:
1 - specify the time period those 10 games need be played.
2 - create 2 more data sets using a different number of games over the same time period.
3 - result, you have more data for understanding.

Example, you could create data using the following that would represent one of several types of casual MWO player.
There are 4 weeks in an average month.
Say a Casual plays 4 days a week.
Same Casual plays only 4 matches a day.
That's 16 matches a week or 64 in a month.

Personally I have done different 'MWO schedules' in 9 years it has been out.
Sometimes I played more than 4 days a week and more than 4 matches a day so that is less Casual as I defined it thus more than 64 matches a month. I bet others have done the same.
There are people now who only play events then stop, that should be less than 64 matches a month thus even less Casual. Some do not even care about events, I know I have skipped some events.

Having different data sets with these or similar clear items would allow better understanding of what is going on with players but only the one set is given with a vague item, 10 games over an unspecified time period.

Edited by Wildstreak, 03 August 2021 - 04:59 PM.

[pattonesque]

it means all games count those players in their playerbases, it's not unique to this game

[Vxheous]

Wildstreak, on 03 August 2021 - 04:56 PM, said:

The point you are making is what?
Lots of gamers know this, it does not counter or refute what I said.

Actually begs a question.
Not sure if Jarl would do this but he seems able or he could let someone else do the work.
What if he could provide more data for a better picture?
10 games over an unspecified time period alone is not enough.

Instead add this:
1 - specify the time period those 10 games need be played.
2 - create 2 more data sets using a different number of games over the same time period.
3 - result, you have more data for understanding.

Example, you could create data using the following that would represent one of several types of casual MWO player.
There are 4 weeks in an average month.
Say a Casual plays 4 days a week.
Same Casual plays only 4 matches a day.
That's 16 matches a week or 64 in a month.

Personally I have done different 'MWO schedules' in 9 years it has been out.
Sometimes I played more than 4 days a week and more than 4 matches a day so that is less Casual as I defined it thus more than 64 matches a month. I bet others have done the same.
There are people now who only play events then stop, that should be less than 64 matches a month thus even less Casual. Some do not even care about events, I know I have skipped some events.

Having different data sets with these or similar clear items would allow better understanding of what is going on with players but only the one set is given with a vague item, 10 games over an unspecified time period.

The only data that the Jarl's list has is the data on the public MWO leaderboard from this site. The 10 games that need to be played is on a monthly basis, that's the time frame, day 1 of the month to the end of the month.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Arnold The Governator, on 02 August 2021 - 10:53 AM, said:

The only thing I wished PGI would do is focus more resources into MW:O vs MW:5 Mercenaries. MW:O has retained my interests way longer than anything MW:5 has done. If they claim that they have such a limited budget for time and resources, then I truly believe that they should have waited to cease full development for MW:O then focused all of their efforts into MW:5 and maybe put a little more effort into the online aspect (possible 12 v 12's and such) to make ways for MW:O 2.

when you have nothing technical and programming Team for the old Engine or bring the Engine to e newer Update or converting to a Other Engine ,you can nothing do-PGI has lost her Team for the cry 3 and not find new Guys for it and never will find,its Lostech thats the sadly True...only chance make a new MWO2 from the Basics in UE4 ,otehr Side ,the Game is selling to EG7, and Russ concentrate his Power to a new IP (own?) and im thinking its not Battletech.And EG 7 ...thats Company once buying Battlestar galactica online, as the Game with his harsh Pay to Play system was not longer profitable, the Servers going down from one to another day

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 03 August 2021 - 08:47 PM.

[Valdarion Silarius]

MW Waldorf Statler, on 03 August 2021 - 08:35 PM, said:

when you have nothing technical and programming Team for the old Engine or bring the Engine to e newer Update or converting to a Other Engine ,you can nothing do-PGI has lost her Team for the cry 3 and never find new Guys for it ,ist Lostech ...only chance make a new MWO2 from the Basics in UE4 ,otehr Side ,the Game is selling to EG7, and Russ concentrate his Power to a new IP (own?) and im thinking its not Battletech

I don't think it's total lostech porting over the assets from cry engine to UE4. If that's the case then how have they been making DLC for MW5? They are reusing current models that have been previously made. Also when was the game being sold to EG7? I'm pretty sure Microsoft owns the IP and the game has already been ported to Steam.