67 replies to this topic

[LordNothing]

pbiggz, on 26 August 2021 - 05:26 AM, said:

y'all whine about how bad maps are and then whine when they get fixed.

Is this because you're silly silly people? or is it because you're all entitled boomers because my 27 y/o *** cannot understand any of this garbage. Grow up.

more like we whine because there are no new maps and then whine again when they half *** it with remakes. especially when one of the better classic maps that everyone likes gets a redux taking the old experience off the table in the process.

the kitbashed maps tend to be received better because they don't replace anything, and they bring a completely new design to the table. more kitbashes, less reduxes. i mean its good that they are doing something and the new designer is getting things done. its just the leadership needs to sign off on letting the new guy do something creative.

Edited by LordNothing, 28 August 2021 - 05:58 PM.

[Rabid Imp]

As someone who does not regularly post here but does play I have to agree.
Old HPG was picked nearly 100% of the time no matter the map against it...new HPG sucks (my opinion) and from what I have seen (like viridian bog beating it 100% to 0%) I think a lot of people agree.

Edited by Rabid Imp, 28 August 2021 - 07:12 PM.

[pbiggz]

LordNothing, on 28 August 2021 - 05:29 PM, said:

more like we whine because there are no new maps and then whine again when they half *** it with remakes. especially when one of the better classic maps that everyone likes gets a redux taking the old experience off the table in the process.

No you whine because you're boomer brains cant handle anything that remotely resembles change. A month ago you would not have had any problem admitting that HPG played out almost the same every match. Nascar or King of the hill. Everyone fights on top or under the middle. The team that wins is the team that death balls fastest and misses least. Have you ever had a fight on HPG that took place outside the walls? Maybe once or twice? I for one can't remember the last time it happened.

But now that it's gone, suddenly the rose tinted glasses come out and you fossils start crying about the good old days that never existed.

LordNothing, on 28 August 2021 - 05:29 PM, said:

the kitbashed maps tend to be received better because they don't replace anything, and they bring a completely new design to the table. more kitbashes, less reduxes. i mean its good that they are doing something and the new designer is getting things done. its just the leadership needs to sign off on letting the new guy do something creative.

He's doing lots of creative stuff. You're crying about it.

A major reason we never got a good quantity of new maps was because PGI artists kept making entire new tilesets and new biomes.

I want you to sit for a moment and think about how much time that takes. Sit for a moment and think about how expensive that is. If you want new maps, this is how it's going to happen from now on. Existing assets, sometimes even existing height maps. That's the reality of a game that doesn't get a whole lot of funding and development time. Kinda doesn't matter if you don't like it.

Rabid Imp, on 28 August 2021 - 07:02 PM, said:

As someone who does not regularly post here but does play I have to agree.
Old HPG was picked nearly 100% of the time no matter the map against it...new HPG sucks (my opinion) and from what I have seen (like viridian bog beating it 100% to 0%) I think a lot of people agree.

HPG was tolerable. Viridian Bog is a chore. If HPG was winning 100 to 0 to maps like viridian bog, its because people were voting to avoid a map.

Why can't we have maps that I feel good voting for?

[MyriadDigits]

multisoul, on 26 August 2021 - 04:44 AM, said:

AI, tanks, artillery,

Go play MW5.

multisoul, on 26 August 2021 - 04:44 AM, said:

Long Tom, orbital nukes

Yeah.... they tried that in FP and it nearly killed the game.

multisoul, on 26 August 2021 - 04:44 AM, said:

infantry, patrols.

Go play MW5 and discover that PGI's implementation of infantry gobbles resources so bad they had to release it as an official mod because it'd have murdered consoles.

multisoul, on 26 August 2021 - 04:44 AM, said:

Get money from giving access

Literally just play MW5. It hits every checkbox but orbital nukes.

[LordNothing]

pbiggz, on 28 August 2021 - 07:16 PM, said:

No you whine because you're boomer brains cant handle anything that remotely resembles change. A month ago you would not have had any problem admitting that HPG played out almost the same every match. Nascar or King of the hill. Everyone fights on top or under the middle. The team that wins is the team that death balls fastest and misses least. Have you ever had a fight on HPG that took place outside the walls? Maybe once or twice? I for one can't remember the last time it happened.

But now that it's gone, suddenly the rose tinted glasses come out and you fossils start crying about the good old days that never existed.



He's doing lots of creative stuff. You're crying about it.

A major reason we never got a good quantity of new maps was because PGI artists kept making entire new tilesets and new biomes.

I want you to sit for a moment and think about how much time that takes. Sit for a moment and think about how expensive that is. If you want new maps, this is how it's going to happen from now on. Existing assets, sometimes even existing height maps. That's the reality of a game that doesn't get a whole lot of funding and development time. Kinda doesn't matter if you don't like it.



HPG was tolerable. Viridian Bog is a chore. If HPG was winning 100 to 0 to maps like viridian bog, its because people were voting to avoid a map.

Why can't we have maps that I feel good voting for?

we want change just as much as anyone, but the pgi always taking the most minimally viable approach to save some scratch tends to do more harm than good imho. you can build anew without destroying what came before. idk why zoomers find this so hard to believe. sometime in the future we will be digging up more classic editions of the maps because pgi will want to be seen as doing something without actually doing anything.

there are smarter ways to save money. rubellite oasis for example is one of the best late game maps pgi has made. the biome was a composite from existing tilesets (there is some tormaline in there), so they no doubt saved a ton of money on it. and its not like they havent done composite tilesets before, vitric forge was a pretty good map using bits from hpg and some new textures. we also have complete tilesets that only exist on a single map, bog and terra therma for example. id love to see a qp kitbash of hellbore or taiga. you can also save a lot of time and money doing away with unnecessary micro-detail and focus on the mech scale stuff. its the terrain that dictates play, not the textures.

reduxing maps that get heavy play (because they are popular the way they were) is kind of foolish. if you are going to redux maps, redux the ones that never get played. they are underpicked for a reason, and its better to figure out what that is and do something about it than it is to "fix" what works.

[Rabid Imp]

pbiggz, on 28 August 2021 - 07:16 PM, said:

HPG was tolerable. Viridian Bog is a chore. If HPG was winning 100 to 0 to maps like viridian bog, its because people were voting to avoid a map.

Why can't we have maps that I feel good voting for?

HPG won nearly every time (mining was close) against any map it came up against because people liked it. It is now losing to bog...yes people are voting to AVOID playing the new HPG.

[feeWAIVER]

New HPG is good. I would also like Classic HPG.

[VeeOt Dragon]

actually HPG was likely picked more often than other maps because its a colder map that isn't as LRM friendly as the snowier ones. (HPG is the coldest map if i remember right something that doesn't make much sense because its an extra-solar moon with no atmosphere, hence why your weapons sound different there. it should be the opposite because heat dissipates more slowly in a vacuum or low atmo environment).

if you look Tera Therma almost never gets picked, the terrain isn't that bad (not the best but not the worst) but its the hottest. the meta usually favors builds that produce a lot of heat so maps that effect how fast you cool down are not as favored.

honestly i wonder if PGI could put of a metric that shows the percent that each map is selected. though you also have to account for the fact that you only get to pic from 4 maps each match.

as for HPG not getting picked anymore i beg to differ. for me it has still been chosen just as often almost always being either first or second choice every time it comes up. though that could also be effected by people picking it so they can learn the new map and how other people tend to navigate it. we are learning a new set of tactics for it after all. the same happened with Polar. old Polar almost never got picked unless i had a high multiplier or there were a few LRM boats wanting it. new Polar gets picked more often than old ever did.

hell i am happy to see other maps in the rotation even bad ones. i get sick and tired of Mining Collective every other match.

Edited by VeeOt Dragon, 28 August 2021 - 08:42 PM.

[roekenny]

Remakes are nice as there are plenty of FW maps what could be ported to QP quite a lot of the community has never payed on. Highlands was a good remake as there was zero map cover at all for LRM's and was hated by every other play style and pretty much gave lights a giant middle finger where had many games all the light just said sod it and had a brawl on the far end of the map.
HPG is like the old highland in that it gives a giant middle finger to anyone not a sniper/ lrm boat simply by having the only way to get onto the wall at spawn so when a team has mopped up and are battered from having a good fight you then have to go down a very easy to defend kill zone to get to the ramp what is in their spawn they can plunk away all this time (or just put backs against the wall of their spawn and have 800 mtrs of nothing and just wait for you.) They then can whittle away and the second your on the ramp they jump off and set up again bear in mind they as usually fresh because nothing can challenge them.

But you should just get your light to deal with them at the start of the game I hear you say? Slight issue with that as any mech able to go 60kph is able to reach the middle gate by the time lights try and flank. And wouldn't you know it two lovely sight lines watching the other two gates get pinged and the heavies slow down and will wait for you what is bad not just for you but also means your team pushed into their zone a lot more and right above the snipers. Ok then just wait till the fight starts? Sure nothings as fun as dead time and then the issue while lights are good and can pick of assaults if their careful, what if there's two of them up there? Can't get support they can. HPG in it's current state wraps snipers and lrms in a blanket of cotton wool and says "there there the mean red team can't hurt you, your safe now," and anyone who is saying "oh just change your tactics" is trying to defend their precious perch of invulnerability as their play style grossly benefits it.

All they need to do is add ramps inside as there is already elevation inside what go that high so just make the wall not have any gaps, bridge over from the elevations on the inside and the map is massively improved as it gets rid of the tedium and adds some risk been on the wall.

[VeeOt Dragon]

actually new HPG has ramps on the inner side of the outer walls as well. they are a bit exposed having no cover from mechs in the center of the map but they are there and can be used. (i have used them myself to chase down that last sniper mech). also the center has plenty of cover from sniper and LRM fire not to mention the basement still being there.

[roekenny]

VeeOt Dragon, on 30 August 2021 - 02:55 AM, said:

actually new HPG has ramps on the inner side of the outer walls as well. they are a bit exposed having no cover from mechs in the center of the map but they are there and can be used. (i have used them myself to chase down that last sniper mech). also the center has plenty of cover from sniper and LRM fire not to mention the basement still being there.

Ramps sure but to their own separate island need Jets to jump the gap and few outside omni's and specialized builds use them with enough numbers to jump it (outside lights who can get away with 1 if do a runner.) I'm not denying plenty of cover in the center but fight tend to not be in the basement or smack dab in the center they tend to be focused on one side as a push comes in and that don't tend to have cover from one vantage point on the wall and if your the side getting pushed (and if your teams smart they should be) it's PPC season.

And again, ok you've smashed most of the reds and your team is battered a nice shade of red and have to deal with the lovely wall snipers who's fresh as a daisy and you've got to now walk into their spawn (getting shot) up the ramp (getting shot) and over that wall (getting shot) then down the wall as they have jumped (getting shot.) If the sniper has any sense he can chip away easily at every point doing a tactical retreat and easily come out on top as they have had no harassment all game. I've had a few skirmishes where they don't even do that. They take pot shots from the wall all game and when their teams getting mopped up they just head back to spawn and use the 800+ mtrs of no mans land to gut you. And I don't find having to deal with a fresh thanatos with heavy Gauss fun at the best of days but after a brawl and 800 mtrs of nothing ....yeah. It works, it's easy, it's dirty, few risks and massive rewards if your in a thanatos or any other long range heavy/ assault and not doing this trick your doing a disservice to your mech. The key to know when to set back up at spawn and to kindly ask for the last few stragglers to die a bit more slowly in chat.

Outside of some hyper specialized JJ builds no generic build should have a location that free from harassment and not be threatened to be dislodged.

[Athom83]

Wildstreak, on 26 August 2021 - 06:59 PM, said:

Ah but MW5 did artillery in Beachhead mode and despite advice, still people complain.

Maps, lotta open space that makes old Polar Highlands look like a thick forest.

I actually liked that new mode... but man on some maps those arty pieces are just excessively oppressive.

PeppaPig, on 28 August 2021 - 12:06 PM, said:

The remake of the HPG map is the worst to date; clearly put together (in the loosest terms) by someone who has no clue as to what a decent MWO map should be. Were this in Fortnite or some other arena PvP it might almost work, but the sudden drop offs, blocking unsurmountable walls and channelling that has been imported from the last two "updates" show a degree of incompetence that is only matched by PGI's general direction in ignoring its community and players by still dolling out garbage.

Highly disagree. I actually enjoyed it the few times I played it. Whining sweat goblins, such as yourself, hate anything that doesn't subscribe to a preset meta that everyone and everything has to follow don't understand what this game is for the majority of people, and most people I see in match on it seem to either like it or are still learning it.

[Athom83]

Rabid Imp, on 28 August 2021 - 07:02 PM, said:

As someone who does not regularly post here but does play I have to agree.
Old HPG was picked nearly 100% of the time no matter the map against it...new HPG sucks (my opinion) and from what I have seen (like viridian bog beating it 100% to 0%) I think a lot of people agree.

It was picked 100% of the time because it was;

1) Completely symmetrical so is almost always completely balanced.

2) Cold.

3) Had cheese hiding spot for cheese pilots.

It's losing votes most of the time now because;

1) It's new and people, especially the sweat goblins, don't know it yet and generally aren't in the mood this late in the game to learn new maps. New maps in every game that's been fully released for a while are always called a "**** map" by whiners on the forums until at least a year later or when another new map is added.

2) Despite the game's "Casual" gameplay the players are generally highly competitive, to the point where for years this game was a running joke in that you can't play for 5 minutes without someone complaining about either your build not being "Meta" or complaining about how you play. And new maps are almost never considered "Meta" because people haven't learned all the tricks and routes, learn how other players generally play the map, et cetera in order to play the "Meta" of the map, and if they can't play something to the "Meta" then they don't want to play it.

[VeeOt Dragon]

if you are running into a mech with Heavy Gauss on the wall then that isn't a sniper build by any definition. just because new HPG isn't a Brawl fest map like solaris doesn't mean its bad. think out of the box and try something new. so far the new maps have all been more balanced than their original versions. HPG is still symmetrical and its still a cold map (its should be a "hot" map but PGI doesn't exactly follow basic thermal dynamics very well when it comes to cooling rates in a low atmosphere environment. i bet if they made HPG, s base map cooling rate what it should be the rate of play for that map would go down the tubes). it will continue to be picked nearly every time it comes up.

or better yet be more like the Casual players and stop giving two shits about meta. just build fun builds and enjoy yourself. stop worrying about arbitrary stats that you can only see with a 3rd party site and just enjoy the game. try new tactics and approaches to maps. you might find yourself enjoying things more.

[pbiggz]

The only people whining about this map are basically in this thread.

[PocketYoda]

I've found so far all the maps but canyon are far superior and even canyon is playable.. Any map that works for all types of players and mechs is a good map.

The maps designer imo is doing a great job so far.

The lurmboat players no longer like it and the light pilots can no longer cheese so obviously they no longer vote for it..

Edited by MechaGnome, 05 September 2021 - 05:57 PM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Quote

[color=#959595]1) Completely symmetrical so is almost always completely balanced.[/color]

How many wargames /Shooter have symmetrical maps? from Battlefield over Cod,War Thunder to World of XXXX?!
its not starcraft

[Moldur]

Remaking the poorly performing maps makes sense. Idk why we had to get reworks of the most popular maps like frozen city and HPG.

PeppaPig, on 28 August 2021 - 12:06 PM, said:

The remake of the HPG map is the worst to date; clearly put together (in the loosest terms) by someone who has no clue as to what a decent MWO map should be. Were this in Fortnite or some other arena PvP it might almost work, but the sudden drop offs, blocking unsurmountable walls and channelling that has been imported from the last two "updates" show a degree of incompetence that is only matched by PGI's general direction in ignoring its community and players by still dolling out garbage.

If nothing else, the fact that every other match on HPG takes 3-5 minutes longer just to get 2 guys on the wall is an oversight to say the least.

[Rkshz]

multisoul, on 26 August 2021 - 04:44 AM, said:

please stop making remakes of maps. make new maps. make new content: AI, tanks, artillery, Long Tom, orbital nukes, infantry, patrols. Get money from giving access or giving more than 1 per day access to those features, improve FP, bring more drops, more players. The game is turning into 3 developpers meager retirement fund.
with these remakes you are just redoing glitches and creating places to get stuck after someone else spend his career 'developing' reduction of such bugs

maps need to be repaired, mechs need to be re-scaled, weapons need to be balanced - this is standard work that needs to be done

probably I'm a pervert, but I like the new HPG, this quest is called "knock a pear off the wall"

P.S. I want to hope that the next map to be repaired will be the Alpines

[Moldur]

They're not fixing maps though. They're making them different. There's not a single variable bar graph you can look and say "this map is better than this one." It's ultimately what people like or want regardless of bean counter metrics.