134 replies to this topic

[LordNothing]

30 tonners are bloody stronk now. its hands down the best light bracket. chetahs are back in force, there are urbies everywhere. kitfoxen, i even had a lot of awesome games in an osiris. when do the 35 tonners get this level of love?

Edited by LordNothing, 23 September 2021 - 12:01 AM.

[Saved By The Bell]

Guys, and you forgot about rescale. Year ago, lights were running somewhere down near the legs, most assaults and some heavies (black knight, etc) wasn't able even see them!

I was shooting down with my arm weapons, trying at least to hit something! Ohhh.

Edited by Saved By The Bell, 23 September 2021 - 12:23 AM.

[Mochyn Pupur]

The position lights are in now is truly overpowered/nerfed/quirked, whatever you want to call it. Successive balances have been more in favour of the "preferred" meta lights than any other class or chassis, e.g. engine desync, agility boosts, HSL benefits, structural/armour improvements to make them more viable, stealth armour, sheer wretched number of weapons hardpoints (yes, may not have much range, but for focus hit and run damage - devastating).

Now we end up with genetical abhorrence that Caustic has become with even heavier mist occlusion and light friendly random architecture thrown around everywhere which followed suit from the demented rebuild of HPG, any competent light pilot can have a field-day with hit and run tactics or simply hiding under/behind the slower heavier chassis that have lost out on pretty much everything lights have gained in the misbegotten "balance" race initiated by PGI and now exemplified by the majority of the "cauldron".

I do pilot lights, I do get good kill results, but because of the pin point accuracy and focus, rarely get good damage or match scores because of the pitiful rewards scheme, so I tend to play heavier weights because of the rewards. Lights and all other weights, need to be reassessed at a grass roots level, not perpetuating this disastrous series of balances that has only escalated problems with the game, especially for newcomers, the very people we should be encouraging to stay and eventually part with their money to keep the game going for everyone.

[HauptmanT]

Mark Yore, on 22 September 2021 - 06:37 AM, said:

Since the quirk changes I've noticed a greater proportion of lights in matches, leading to more wolf packs.

Lights always had a bit of fragility about them. Now that they have enough armour to take a couple of direct hits they seem to be less afraid of the other mechs, particularly the assaults. So more people bring lights, which means the chances of having four or more on a side goes up.

Do you think the armour changes have gone too far?

As a light only pilot for the past month, here's my take:

Yes. I think the armor is a bit much on only a couple lights. Flea's should not get armor. Period. Too small and nimbly bimbly. Probably a couple others as well...

However, also No. Incubus needs armor. Panther, Cougar, Urbies NEED armor! Give them even more.

It could all be avoided by rescaling the lights. Many are too big. Much too big. In a Jenner IIc, I look a Catapult straight in the eye... Like wut? My arms are also almost as big... Just stop that. That's so wrong. They dont need to be flea sized but c'mon now...

And yes, I've had some fun wolf packs form up in QP. Is it unfair? Yes. Is it a guaranteed win? Yes. But that's what lights do... and fearing a light wolf pack, like the old days, needs to be a thing again. I have too many streak boats I made many years ago, that never get used.

[HauptmanT]

LordNothing, on 23 September 2021 - 12:00 AM, said:

30 tonners are bloody stronk now. its hands down the best light bracket. chetahs are back in force, there are urbies everywhere. kitfoxen, i even had a lot of awesome games in an osiris. when do the 35 tonners get this level of love?

Osiris is already one of my favorites. Fear the day they get their quirks. It's gonna be glorious!

[LordNothing]

HauptmanT, on 23 September 2021 - 01:50 AM, said:

Osiris is already one of my favorites. Fear the day they get their quirks. It's gonna be glorious!

that was yesterday. i was able to upgrade the 1p from srm4s to srm6es because of ammo quirks.

[Wildstreak]

MrMadguy, on 22 September 2021 - 08:06 PM, said:

Lights being unpopular - isn't viable argument. Because their power isn't reason, why players don't play them. And therefore buffing them won't make them popular - it will just brake balance in this game again.

For example I won't play them, no matter how OP they will be. Because: 1) They're ugly 2) They don't have build diversity.

Guy, who say, that they're hard to play - are hypocrites. Circling and spamming JJs, while being almost invulnerable - doesn't require much skill. Even I can do it with zero Light piloting skill. I would even say, that they're trivial to play. And it's 3rd reason, why I don't play them.

Lights do not have as much power as you think under the current system plus they are the class expected to cap in Conquest or hold circle in Domination thus give up some damage potential due to that. With a system that only rewards damage, this is part of why Lights are not favoered.

Circling is easily countered by teammates and backing into walls.

LordNothing, on 23 September 2021 - 12:00 AM, said:

30 tonners are bloody stronk now. its hands down the best light bracket. chetahs are back in force, there are urbies everywhere. kitfoxen, i even had a lot of awesome games in an osiris. when do the 35 tonners get this level of love?

Some of those Urbies are stock being run for fun, not real threats. Cheetahs are not out in force and not that good. Kitfoxes are chosen for triple AMS.

PeppaPig, on 23 September 2021 - 01:40 AM, said:

Lights and all other weights, need to be reassessed at a grass roots level

This requires restarting the game as MWO2, I have no problem with that but some are trying so hard to hold on to this mess.

HauptmanT, on 23 September 2021 - 01:44 AM, said:

However, also No. Incubus needs armor. Panther, Cougar, Urbies NEED armor! Give them even more.

It could all be avoided by rescaling the lights. Many are too big. Much too big. In a Jenner IIc, I look a Catapult straight in the eye... Like wut? My arms are also almost as big... Just stop that. That's so wrong. They dont need to be flea sized but c'mon now...

No, Panthers have some armor through twisting to take damage on the side with no arm weapon, Cougar is fine, Urbie is fine. You can even take 11 nodes of Armor Hardening off the Survival RPG tree as a buff.

If you rescale for smaller size, you actually cause more problems. Certain Lights already hug legs knowing those big Mechs cannot aim down at them, more smaller Lights increase that problem.

The Catapult was made too small, that is why what you said happens with it.

[Alexander of Macedon]

MrMadguy, on 22 September 2021 - 08:06 PM, said:

Lights being unpopular - isn't viable argument. Because their power isn't reason, why players don't play them. And therefore buffing them won't make them popular - it will just brake balance in this game again.

It absolutely is. Almost the only time you see top-end players in lights is if they're dropping 3-4 deep in clan MG/small laser lights. Look at the top-50 on Jarl's. Nine of them have 25%+ of their matches in lights. 37 of them have 25%+ in heavies, assaults, or both.

MrMadguy, on 22 September 2021 - 08:06 PM, said:

For example I won't play them, no matter how OP they will be. Because: 1) They're ugly 2) They don't have build diversity.

1. Lol.
2. LMAO do you even play MWO? We have more options than ever before for weapon loads and still there are basically five builds: dakka vomit, laser vomit, splat, Gauss/PPC sniper, and LRMboat. You can run three of those effectively on lights, and lights are also the only weight class where MGboating is a viable alternative.

MrMadguy, on 22 September 2021 - 08:06 PM, said:

Guy, who say, that they're hard to play - are hypocrites. Circling and spamming JJs, while being almost invulnerable - doesn't require much skill. Even I can do it with zero Light piloting skill. I would even say, that they're trivial to play. And it's 3rd reason, why I don't play them.

Excuse me, but YOU DON'T PLAY THEM SO YOU DON'T KNOW. You have 1% of your matches played in lights. You are the definition of talking-out-your-***.

There are three things that can make lights exceptionally effective: enemies positioning badly, enemies not communicating, and enemies that can't aim. If you're consistently dying to players in lights, there's a common factor there and it ain't the lights.

Edited by Alexander of Macedon, 23 September 2021 - 04:05 AM.

[GoodTry]

Monkey Lover, on 22 September 2021 - 10:25 PM, said:

I agree only thing I fear in a light is pinpoint weapons.

Streak boats can be annoying as well. They won’t take your leg off in one hit, but they’ll tear you up pretty good, and they don’t even have to aim. Plus a streak boat pilot is going to chase you down and make you their #1 priority. Their build sucks against everything else.

[pbiggz]

Shoot the light

[kuma8877]

GoodTry, on 23 September 2021 - 04:06 AM, said:

Streak boats can be annoying as well. They won’t take your leg off in one hit, but they’ll tear you up pretty good, and they don’t even have to aim. Plus a streak boat pilot is going to chase you down and make you their #1 priority. Their build sucks against everything else.

I can't remember the last time I've been taken out by a streakboat. SRMs and direct fire are way scarier. An ACW with Streaks is MAYBE a threat to lights, an ACW with SRMs is a threat to everyone. Streaks have never been that scary in a light, not really.

[Mark Yore]

kuma8877, on 23 September 2021 - 06:15 AM, said:

I can't remember the last time I've been taken out by a streakboat. SRMs and direct fire are way scarier. An ACW with Streaks is MAYBE a threat to lights, an ACW with SRMs is a threat to everyone. Streaks have never been that scary in a light, not really.

I'll always take SRM with Artemis over Streaks, but if I have limited missile points in an IS I'll always take MRMs.

[1453 R]

I got ded'd in my Meth Lynx last night by a Streak Doge.

...after someone else had ripped off half my guns and drilled me to deep orange CT. And after I tore half that Streak Doge off with the remaining half of my guns, because he had the temerity to have a soft shoulder in the presence of an HMG Meth Lynx.

Only time I can remember in recent games where a Streak boat has bothered me, even on less iron-plated little monsters than the Lynx. Dedicated Streak boats are really rare and usually easy to spot, and either they're soft enough I can bull through their missiles and kill them anyways, or I just go and find someone else to shoot. Not necessarily because I'm scared of Streaks, though I certainly respect what the weapons can do when I'm in a twigweight. No, mostly I ignore Streakboats because they'll be specifically looking for me, and they're so weak against heavier threats that it's a better use of my time to let my team's Fatness plow Streakboats under while I work on picking on the rectums of high-value direct-fire threats that are significantly more dangerous to my team than the Streak Doge.

[HauptmanT]

kuma8877, on 23 September 2021 - 06:15 AM, said:

I can't remember the last time I've been taken out by a streakboat. SRMs and direct fire are way scarier. An ACW with Streaks is MAYBE a threat to lights, an ACW with SRMs is a threat to everyone. Streaks have never been that scary in a light, not really.

Streakboats went out of favor when they nerfed lights with the 'volumetric scaling'. That's why you dont die by them, they went poof. Top off with the fact that they nerfed streaks as well, it's just a bad weapon. I do however use streak 2's on my MG mechs that have a spare missile HP or Two. Like my new Saber, 3 streak 2s crank some damage quick... it's bad damage but it's damage. Also, in that sabre, lights dont stick around once they realise I'm wrecking their legs with 6 missiles every 1.8 seconds. Lets me hunt the bigger targets.

I dont think I've killed any lights with those streaks... but it scares them off good nuff.

[1453 R]

I like Sabre these days with some fat SRM launchers and a somewhat downtuned engine. A 255 still gets it going at a perfectly respectable ~138 before Tweak, and it gives me room for enough SRMs to make people notice when I come up and blat them. I know most folks prefer SPLs to back it up, but for me the heavy smalls mesh better with the 'hit hard, then bail' paradigm a good Sabre player adheres to. it kinda acts a little bit like a Clan Commando, honestly. Not as nimble or compact, but it's got better burst firepower and doesn't fall too far behind in speed.

Just wish it had tonnage for HMGs. You don't get a lot of use out of machine guns on a Sabre, RoF quirk or not, but in those moments where you're pressing hard to secure a kill on a wounded critter, the extra deeps from the heavier guns woulda been nice. Just no room for them without downgrading all the missiles though, or dropping the engine way too far for comfort.

[Blood Rose]

I dont even....
It seems every time I come back here there is something new being whined about and nine times out of ten it is something that upsets the secondary COD refugee kiddies and ruffles the armour of their optimised, minmaxed, heavy/assault monster and forces them to potentially rethink their strategy.
Ive been playing lights since Beta, and they have almost never been a popular class, especially not after the rescale. They have very little armour and very little firepower and all it takes is a x-vomit boat to look at them too hard and they explode. So what they upped the armour, wow, now the poor light takes a whopping two good hits to down, as opposed to the one before. Geeze, you might even have to alpha it. They still die. My Jenner died about 4 matches ago in Caustic via a pair of missile boats that focussed the everliving **** out of me everytime I poked my nose out from behind the rock I was hiding behind. In the end a Thor got me, but only because the missile boats had shaved every point of armour off of every location.
Lights suck. Try actually playing them, then you can complain about them being 'op'. Or maybe you will realise that people who play lights do it because they like the chassis, not because they care about having le epic uber metch score winrar.

Actually, as a sidenote, I really think all players should be forced to play Battletech in the pre-Helm renaissance era, or at least forced to play their first few matches in stock 3025 Mechs. Just to really enforce the true spirit of Battletech, and not the minmax garbage we see in game.

[Angus McFife VI]

Just shoot them
https://youtu.be/ET6q46nFNL0

Also maybe don't get caught alone. Sometimes your team is braindead and will take a dumb position, but your combined 'tard strength may overwhelm your enemies so it's better you stick with a bad team then go solo when your team does something dumb.

Edited by Dont LRM me please, 23 September 2021 - 03:45 PM.

[MyriadDigits]

Blood Rose, on 23 September 2021 - 03:36 PM, said:

It seems every time I come back here there is something new being whined about and nine times out of ten it is something that upsets the secondary COD refugee kiddies and ruffles the armour of their optimised, minmaxed, heavy/assault monster and forces them to potentially rethink their strategy.

Fun fact, its actually mostly the "secondary COD refugee kiddies" with their "optimised, minmaxed, heavy/assault monster" that are telling people to just shoot the light mech. The people who need to be told to just shoot the light mech are typically players who:
A ) simply can't aim
B ) panic at the sight of something under 45 tons
C ) are running terribad lore-alike dadbot Atlases that have zero build focus and therefore is undergunned in every engagement.
D ) all of the above

Blood Rose, on 23 September 2021 - 03:36 PM, said:

Actually, as a sidenote, I really think all players should be forced to play Battletech in the pre-Helm renaissance era, or at least forced to play their first few matches in stock 3025 Mechs. Just to really enforce the true spirit of Battletech, and not the minmax garbage we see in game.

"How to ensure new players leave the game immediately 101"

Frankly, I think enforcing pre-helm stock is terrible regardless, since the biggest issue for new players isn't necessarily having too much junk so much as it is not explaining any of it, but this would require its own own queue to even remotely function like you think it would. Additionally, new players should be guided on how to make things at least semi-intelligently so that they can at least get their foot in the door when they get into actual matches against actual players, and teaching players to use stock mechs would only encourage bad build habits that'll put them behind the curve and eventually put them off the game when they keep getting their hind kicked.

If you want "the true spirit of Battletech", MechWarrior 5 is right next door, and HBS Battletech is just across the street.

Edited by MyriadDigits, 23 September 2021 - 04:28 PM.

[pattonesque]

Also can we please stop pretending that allowing only stock mechs would somehow eliminate a meta

The good players would just find the best mechs and play them. A game full of WHK-Primes lol

[MechNexus]

pattonesque, on 23 September 2021 - 04:29 PM, said:

Also can we please stop pretending that allowing only stock mechs would somehow eliminate a meta

The good players would just find the best mechs and play them. A game full of WHK-Primes lol

Dread it. Run from it. Tierlists arrive all the same.