102 replies to this topic

[justcallme A S H]

knight-of-ni, on 11 October 2021 - 01:07 PM, said:

If both teams are composed entirely of members from the southern hemisphere, does the nascar go clockwise, instead of counterclockwise? Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

EDIT: Got my directions mixed.

What usually happens there is Aussie Toilet.

Where by we go the other way as a group and quite literally and flush the enemy to a 12-0

[Monkey Lover]

1453 R, on 11 October 2021 - 06:50 AM, said:

D A T A, how are you such a crazy high-ranked sort with direct Cauldron access when your every post reads like a T3 bubblehead just discovering forum arguments for the first time?
ack.

I agree with most things data says dealing with balance . Thing I have learned with the game is you basically have 4-6 types of balance in this game.

You have the low tier and high tier game play. The you have the US servers and EU servers. Lastly have have the peak time and off peak games.

These all play different and you got to understand this because most one step changes will not work for everyone

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Rkshz, on 11 October 2021 - 07:32 AM, said:

admit it, you are afraid of me
that is why you are NOT quoting my comments (you write your answer WITHOUT a quote), because then I will receive a notification, and then we will start playing your favorite game of arguments for the elites, in which you, as always, have nothing to say


nascar is my favorite playstyle, and I don't care who or what thinks about it coz game allows nascar
the balance is terrible, the MM formula is terrible, the team distribution of players and mechs is terrible - the maps for the most part are also terrible, because this complex of problems that gives rise to nascar, and nascar rise to stomps - this is a fact
tell me if you disagree with me, I'm waiting for it


the power of understanding?
you do not affect the game, you do not create dynamics, your playstyle is to wait for the enemy - passive playstyle, sо tell me how does jellyfish understand the ocean?

its sarcasm ? im hope

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 11 October 2021 - 06:44 PM.

[Anjian]

Capt Deadpool, on 11 October 2021 - 01:03 PM, said:

If this is the crux of your quibble as to why we should not have four balanced archetypes/playstyles where the average pilot is capable of doing similar damage and affecting game outcomes in a light as they can in a heavy or assault, then that is an easy fix by increasing parity between the pricing of different classes.

I don't really think adjusting class prices is necessary though, as even if lights were granted enough survivability to do similar damage as the other classes via rescale/armor, it would require significantly more work for the player to achieve with a light's miniscule ranges and alphas. Additionally, there is the psychological appeal for many players of stomping around in the biggest, most armored, most weapon-y class, and they will likely continue to pay a premium for the experience....

But I digress, this thread is about Nascar, and as 1453 R stated, that is how the average player--using the least amount of brain power and absent anyone making the effort to coordinate the team to hold tactically strong positions on the map--defaults to attempting to do damage while mitigating the damage that they themselves take. Nascar tendancies can be reduced (which further reduces the effectiveness of lights, BTW, which you correctly pointed out), by what is presently occurring for the first time in years: map redesign and meta shift via changes to mechs and weapons.

Nascar is indeed fascinating from a biological anthropology perspective; what makes groups of H.Sapiens turn right instead of left anyway? Do they do it in other games too? Likely a result of both cultural and genetic bias, as natural selection has determined that we should be a predominantly right-handed species in a right-handed world... Like watching the behavior of schooling fish species XD

Biological? Instinctive follow the leader?




Not seeing it in other games, however.

[The6thMessenger]

I always just try to urge my team to get a proper firing position, but nah they like chasing squirrels and even their own.

I tried taking the commander role at times just to get them coordinated, but at times I just get a waterfall of "negative", and at worse that one time accusing me of insinuating them not knowing how to play the game -- and then we lost and I get blamed despite not being followed.

Some people say that it's a skill issue, at a point I think they are right. But honestly I say it's really more of an attitude and coordination problem of people selfishly just wanting to shoot but not get shot at, so they go ahead and basically rambo. And because nobody is listening, people are forced to go with the murderball and make an exodus to the other side of the map.

You don't want nascar? Play with a team. Else, c'est la vie.

[ccrider]

NASCAR will never go away; not because of skill or builds or map design but because it works every match. It has a 100% success rate. Both teams nascar, 1 team wins. The losing side doesn't see the counter plays they just think, "we didn't NASCAR hard enough." That's it. It's been this way forever except a few of the older classic maps. Old forest colony traded NASCAR for tunnel pushes or water sniping which was at least amusing. But no one votes for that so you get to left turn till you log off each day.

[martian]

KaptinOrk, on 11 October 2021 - 06:59 AM, said:

I see this all the time in T4.
...

Do not worry. When you move to T1, you will see it too ...

[caravann]

Once it's on, it's on.

Even on good positions they'll be defeated by numbers.

You can not win alone based on a 8% effort when 2 players is 16%

Because of this everything stacks up.

10 vs 12 becomes a 1 vs 3 since 2 players do no longer have an opponent and 3 players is optimal to have 2 tankers and 1 striker

2 tankers is needed to swap direction of focus, 1 tanker will always need to retreat. 2 vs 1 work against 1 opponent

It is mainly because the game do not want you to teamplay, there's always that 4th member in a lance with no function, the so called support unit who is equivalent of a100ton assault in pod drop value.

[Rkshz]

bilagaana, on 11 October 2021 - 08:44 AM, said:

Repositioning is not NASCAR. Flanking is not NASCAR. Pursuit is not NASCAR. Assaulting an objective as a group is not NASCAR.

Still looking for that video somebody posted last year of a farcical match on old Polar Highlands with both teams madly rotating around the beacon. THAT was NASCAR.

smart people and skill players understand this
but the "elite" do not understand this, for them the ideal gameplay is to take 100 tons snipers and sit in one place
any flank attack, or attack with a wide front (that is, when the team leaves snipers behind) this is already a nascar for they
they don't like that enemy fast mechs can scratch their tender backs

I think that this is a consequence of the long experience of comp plays, where in 99% of games there is positional combat, where snipers compete with snipers, and lights guard snipers and control conquest points

MW Waldorf Statler, on 11 October 2021 - 06:41 PM, said:

its sarcasm ? im hope

hope dies last

ccrider, on 11 October 2021 - 10:29 PM, said:

NASCAR will never go away; not because of skill or builds or map design but because it works every match. It has a 100% success rate. Both teams nascar, 1 team wins. The losing side doesn't see the counter plays they just think, "we didn't NASCAR hard enough." That's it. It's been this way forever except a few of the older classic maps. Old forest colony traded NASCAR for tunnel pushes or water sniping which was at least amusing. But no one votes for that so you get to left turn till you log off each day.

nascar is not possible on maps where snipers can control the flanks and most of the map, and at the same time that snipers are difficult prey for lights (a good example is the new HPG, new Caustic, Alpine)

nascars happen when there are no good snipers or when maps allow nascars - for example Mining, Solaris, old Frozen City and other maps that allow run around the anthill

the only question is in the level design, and for this the level designer must understand the tendencies of the gameplay - but the PGI draws maps "beautiful (as they see it)" and not playable for all types of builds and styles

-
if snipers control their part of the map - nascar is impossible
but every team does not always have good snipers, because the game has problems with balance, where players with WLR 0.9 will play against players with WLR 2.0+, as a result, stomps 12-0

Edited by Rkshz, 12 October 2021 - 02:54 AM.

[GuardDogg]

In Nascar, their is the drivers (who turn left around center), and then their is "The Pit Crew!"
.

[pbiggz]

[Katrina Steiner]

Nascar is no fun. I prefer playing chicken. When Nascaring though if the Red team drives left then the blue team should drive right.

Edited by Katrina Steiner, 12 October 2021 - 11:15 AM.

[KaptinOrk]

martian, on 11 October 2021 - 11:10 PM, said:

Do not worry. When you move to T1, you will see it too ...

I was T2 before I left the game in 2016/17 and I remember there being chickens*** pilots all over the place then too. I don't know what it is about MWO that attracts such timid, passive players.

[martian]

Rkshz, on 12 October 2021 - 02:42 AM, said:

nascars happen when there are no good snipers or when maps allow nascars - for example Mining, Solaris, old Frozen City and other maps that allow run around the anthill

The very first version of Caustic was infamous for nascar.

[Rkshz]

martian, on 12 October 2021 - 06:07 AM, said:

The very first version of Caustic was infamous for nascar.

yes, due to the fact that on the old Caustic the snipers had a very little map control for center and flanks
this works for all maps - the more snipers have control on the map, the less possibility for nascar

this means that Cauldron guys is doing everything right - their changes reduce the possibility of nascar
may the gods bless Cauldron guys, if this tendency continues, after a while we will have all maps more balanced and with minimal possibility of nascar

Edited by Rkshz, 12 October 2021 - 06:50 AM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Gotta keep up with the team! Where is the team going? Dunno, its just going!

Like lemmings!



If you don't remember Lemmings, ask your parents.
If THEY don't remember, they must not have owned a Commodore Amiga.

[GoodTry]

People can't even agree on what NASCAR means any more. Half the time I see people crying about NASCAR they just mean "someone went faster than me."

I recently re-watched a video of a true NASCAR round from Canyon circa 2019. True NASCAR was super fast rotation in a circle around a point on the map, and if you didn't keep up you got eaten. The same thing used to happen on polar. I rarely see that now.

More often, these days, with the map updates, it's people trying to flank who aren't fast enough. They get out of position, they don't know or care that they are somewhere they shouldn't be, and they die. Then people complain about NASCARing. That's not NASCARing in my view, that's just poor positioning.

Or, the assaults get a bad spawn, no one notices, and the team engages without them. Again, that's not NASCARing, that's just a failure to pay attention.

It's not NASCAR if you are just taking advantage of your mech's speed to get good firing angles and make zero-damage trades.

[GuardDogg]

GoodTry, on 12 October 2021 - 09:01 AM, said:

People can't even agree on what NASCAR means any more. Half the time I see people crying about NASCAR they just mean "someone went faster than me."

I recently re-watched a video of a true NASCAR round from Canyon circa 2019. True NASCAR was super fast rotation in a circle around a point on the map, and if you didn't keep up you got eaten. The same thing used to happen on polar. I rarely see that now.

More often, these days, with the map updates, it's people trying to flank who aren't fast enough. They get out of position, they don't know or care that they are somewhere they shouldn't be, and they die. Then people complain about NASCARing. That's not NASCARing in my view, that's just poor positioning.

Or, the assaults get a bad spawn, no one notices, and the team engages without them. Again, that's not NASCARing, that's just a failure to pay attention.

It's not NASCAR if you are just taking advantage of your mech's speed to get good firing angles and make zero-damage trades.

You are forgetting about lore mechs, like the DW for example or assaults' that is unable to keep up with team. That is not poor positioning.

Edited by GuardDogg, 12 October 2021 - 02:56 PM.

[Mochyn Pupur]

Saved By The Bell, on 11 October 2021 - 12:16 AM, said:

If you slow and cant nascar: avoid nascar maps where you cant hide. For example: You cant hide and survive in Canyon (worst nascar map). You can hide in Solaris city. Etc...

. . . and therein lies one of the big problems, you may have a great heavy/assault loadout and ability to use it effectively, but you have virtually no control over what map you will drop on by using your vote(s); people with "rotate as fast as possible" stuck in their head, will vote for the map that suits "them" only - to be fair, its human nature to want to win at others' expense.

Make map selection truly random and there is a definite likelihood that the nascar mentality will be hampered and teams more likely to stay together - however, even then, people will always do what they feel is right for them and end up leaving the rest behind to be hunted down.

In point, look at when you are part of or get hit by a murder ball drop, the winning team isn't the fastest, but they are the most cohesive. Murder balls used to be a thing, but far less frequent now because folk are not willing to learn that you drop and act as a team to win, regardless of 4 mans or whatever that is part of that drop's build.

[caravann]

Assault having the easiest task against nascar because they just run around them all the time that them can shoot at one point every time them have done a run around what some calls the "hamburger hill"

Assault do not need to worry about the nascar if there are enough amount of assault on the team.

Nascar is not about light mechs backstabbing. Nascar is created by the shape of the map having a ditch stretching around an objective. Because nobody want to be at the center of the map and die by being shot in 2 directions they instead take cover in the ditch and keep running around the "hamburger hill"

The map causes this because there's cover who is not cover but ditches on every side who make anything taking cover inside the ditch being flanked by any mech on the hill. Because you can not stay on the hill and you can not stay in one position forever and because you have technically already lost the game by not being able to obtain the hill your last effort is to run around the hill in attempt to outrun the mechs above on the hill.

The assault who stand on the hill are basically shooting fishes in a barrel.

Light mechs who backstab do not nascar, they run straight through the team and kills all by shooting them in the back.