174 replies to this topic

[justcallme A S H]

Capt Deadpool, on 27 October 2021 - 01:40 PM, said:

Well, there are experienced players, and then there are experienced players.

Spot on as usual.

There are experienced players - who've played 10,000 games and are in Tier 5 and can't hit the broad side of a barn.

Then there are experienced players - who have played 10,000 games are an in the elite 0.1% of the population who can headshot you at 600m if they want.


pine is going to have to clarfiy why he means because "experienced" can mean many different things to many different people.


----

RE: Headshots - for skilled players is a thing. It should not be removed from the game, not ever. If you go aiming for them you will get them. PGI ties events to them. People do whole streams around them. It is a mechanic that at times is RNG but at other times is absolutely about skill and should be rewarded as such.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 27 October 2021 - 07:38 PM.

[martian]

pinetemplar, on 27 October 2021 - 01:21 PM, said:

You just made the headshot problem even worse they i described it LOL. I am not arguing that you can actually make steps to minimize them or that they happen every match - my point is when it happens it makes game worse not better. ...

"when it happens" ...

In my experience, headshots - both on the giving and receiveng end - are so rare that they do not affect my battle tactics. Typical MWO player dies thousand times to the Center Torso loss than to the headshot. Maybe it is just me, since usually I do not park in front of twin HGR-armed Fafnir or Cyclops.

pinetemplar, on 27 October 2021 - 01:21 PM, said:

... NO ONE has argued against this so i presume all agree LOL.

That is not true. Following players have already told you in this very thread that headshots are not the most important thing in MWO: pbiggz, Curccu, martian, Capt Deadpool, Valdarion Silarius, Andrewlik, GoodTry, Kanil, Horseman, pattonesque, justcallme ASH, w4ld0, LordNothing.

Please note they are all players of various Tiers.

pinetemplar, on 27 October 2021 - 01:21 PM, said:

Yes "technically" you are correct - indeed there are obstacles that provide complete cover from LRM but it feels like 90% of obstacles don't cause when i press my mech against them LRMs still hit my mech maybe due to weird angles when fired without direct line of site when they literally fall from the sky. And i definitely will look into all this ecm staff although i believe not all mechs have them.

Whn some LRM-boat hits you with high-arc indirect fire, that usually means that he:
a) has placed UAV above your position. Shoot that UAV down quickly.
b ) uses some spotting 'Mech that has established direct line of sight on you. Look around and target that enemy spotting 'Mech.

pinetemplar, on 27 October 2021 - 01:21 PM, said:

See you argument "team doesn't pay attention" is also technically correct but completely wrong. In Tier 5 matches they don't sooooo yes it is a problem. And maybe i just have to get used to it but for now it is still a problem for me and i presume for most beginners.

Yes, it is "your" problem. Nobody else is obliged to care about your 'Mech but you. Getting help from some friendly 'Mech is just a nice bonus. The faster you understand this basic logic, the happier you will be.

When you notice that some enemy light 'Mech might be in your vicinity (such as your rear torso turning yellow, "Low signal" warning, enemy LRMs raining on you suddenly, etc.,
it is "your" task to be active and do something. Just do not expect that "somebody" will take care about "your" problem.

Edited by martian, 27 October 2021 - 09:44 PM.

[Gagis]

Indirect fire should have never been added into a PvP shooter game, but for historical reasons it was, and probably can't be removed without causing a massive uproar.

Maybe the next Mechwarrior PvP game will not have indirect fire, at least not with the kind of lock-on and homing mechanic that MWO has even though that is not what the Battletech sources describe LRM as. LRM could just as well have been implemented as a weapon system more similar to current implementation of MRM.

The trick is that indirect fire IS realistic, and in a realistic sense it is what wins battles and wars. It wins them by being as one-sided and unfair as possible and while in effect makes boots on the ground irrelevant and impotent. In a game where players are those "boots on the ground", making them irrelevant and impotent is bad game design. Indirect fire has no place in games outside of milsims or games where you aren't restricted to the role of a field combatant.

[Saved By The Bell]

I play this dead game.

[PocketYoda]

Its ok op fighting it out with these MWO shills is like shouting into the wind.. here. I agree with 99% of what you said but trying to get these things changed is pointless at this point.. The developers don't want to deal with MWO and the players don't want their favorite toys taken away..

Lurms are cancer in tiers 4&5 because everyone and their dogs are using them, because they take very little skill to target anything, ECM has been nerfed to hell and the AMS are ineffective.

The cauldron are light mech fanatics so its going to be bias to them for the foresee able future..

Edited by MechaGnome, 28 October 2021 - 12:26 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

MechaGnome, on 28 October 2021 - 12:26 AM, said:

ECM has been nerfed to hell and the AMS are ineffective.

Why must you continually mislead users with completely false statements?

ECM was bugged the last 2 months as per the patch notes. As per this month patch notes is has been fixed. It was not nerfed.

MechaGnome, on 28 October 2021 - 12:26 AM, said:

The cauldron are light mech fanatics so its going to be bias to them for the foresee able future..

Based on what?

The below graphs clearly show Light Mechs are the least used and worst performing class.

And before you try and claim it's fake - the data comes from PGIs publicly accessible leaderboard data.

Please do not spread such horrible misinformation.

[Nesutizale]

I don't think that indirekt fire is a problem, the way its implemented is.
Originaly indirect fire is very inaccurate and the guidance system very unflexible. I mean its sometimes funny how LRMs can be thrown in a curveball manner.

I think indirect LRMs should be fired like an artillerie similar to the "Stalin Organ". Problem is that would require an extra interface or the battlegrid would need an additional option to select a spot on the map you want to fire at. Kinda like World o Tanks does the artillerie.
You could also leave the interface out of the game and have LRMs just fire like a balastic weapon with a very high ballistic curve. That would make it much more of a skill based weapon.

For when you actualy see your enemy and get a target lock you would get a very small adjustment of the flight patch but still it would be more similar to a "Stalin Organ" with less spread.

[martian]

MechaGnome, on 28 October 2021 - 12:26 AM, said:

Its ok op fighting it out with these MWO shills is like shouting into the wind.. here. I agree with 99% of what you said but trying to get these things changed is pointless at this point.. The developers don't want to deal with MWO and the players don't want their favorite toys taken away..

The maximum, what PGI is willing to do, is to adjust values in weapon and equipment files, re-use existing maps and create new variants of existing 'Mechs.

You can not expect big changes in MWO and I think that you know it. Not in this phase of the game life cycle.

MechaGnome, on 28 October 2021 - 12:26 AM, said:

Lurms are cancer in tiers 4&5 because everyone and their dogs are using them, because they take very little skill to target anything, ECM has been nerfed to hell and the AMS are ineffective.

LRMs are relatively easy to avoid. And by the way, even less skill is needed to neutralize them.
Put AMS and ECM on your 'Mech and you literally do not have to move your finger after that. The equipment is going to do all the work automatically.

Every 'Mech in MWO can mount at least one AMS, some 'Mechs can carry up to four AMS systems.

The effectivity of ECM and AMS can be even enhanced by the unlocking of specific skill nodes.

PGI even gave 3*AMS-capable NVA-S(C) Nova for free.

MechaGnome, on 28 October 2021 - 12:26 AM, said:

The cauldron are light mech fanatics so its going to be bias to them for the foresee able future..

If light 'Mechs are so powerful, why they often end up with low match score in the game?

If light 'Mechs are so powerful, why usually I see the game filled with heavy and Assault 'Mechs?

Have you actually tried to play light 'Mechs? Just that Arctic Cheetah and Javelin that PGI gave away about three months ago?

[Nesutizale]

martian, on 28 October 2021 - 01:02 AM, said:

Every 'Mech in MWO can mount at least one AMS, some 'Mechs can carry up to four AMS systems.

Wait what? Since when? I still got a lot of mechs that don't have AMS or did they do an upgrade and I just didn't know? [/s]

Well lets say that most of the time there is enough AMS and/or ECM around you that you don't have to worry that much except the enemy comes indeed with a fu** load of LRMs. Then they can be effective against the poor sub that didn't manage to find a rock to hide in time.

Also there are the very few times where are people with NARC and 2-3 LRM mechs on the field. Those guys working together can reduce your armor to paper strength before you reach the frontlines.
Still that requires people to work together and we don't do that, beeing the egomaniacs we are

[martian]

Nesutizale, on 28 October 2021 - 01:13 AM, said:

Wait what? Since when? I still got a lot of mechs that don't have AMS or did they do an upgrade and I just didn't know? [/s]

What 'Mechs can not be equipped with AMS?

[Nesutizale]

I have 15 mechs that don't have an AMS slot. So yes there are some.
Strangly I remeber some of them not haveing an AMS but now they do. Not sure if I have ignored the AMS since forever or if they indeed got an upgrade that I never noticed.

[martian]

Nesutizale, on 28 October 2021 - 01:29 AM, said:

I have 15 mechs that don't have an AMS slot. So yes there are some.

Could you name some, so I can get the better idea, please?

[Ignatius Audene]

Maybe u are about omnimechs? There ams is bound 2 specific omnipod

[Mochyn Pupur]

• Certain events induce toxic play; headshot requirement being one where an experienced enough player will know the "head" hit box location and aim for that area, but also the use of bespoke loadouts designed to use flamers and fast recharge weapons to keep you shut down and pick out the known headshot points.
  
• Certain mechs are headshot magnets for anyone aiming for the CT, c.f. Marauders etc., where the chance of taking an alpha strike or plenty of PPC splash damage will take the cockpit out.
  
• As pointed out, LRMS do not behave according to any known physics and will make impossible changes in arc that will drop them virtually vertically on you even when hugging a building; AMS will help reduce damage or even wipe out low-tube missile platforms.
  
• Quite a few light mechs out DPS heavies and assaults, certain members of the community will vehemently agree or disagree with this depending on their inclination to think about (or lack of thought) about other peoples' experiences in game - 'nuff said, just trawl the forums.
  
• Maps and their updates are an ongoing bone of contention; probably the most relevant aspect to what you have commented on is not that maps are too big, but that players do not use them more flexibly - the nascar mentality is real, regardless of what map you will find yourself on until you hit Tier 1 and even then, it can come down to organised drops using similar mechs/loadouts to nascar intentionally as a death-ball.

When comparing WoT to MWO, remember that the game mechanics are dissimilar in connection with damage. WoT, if you hit, you deal "x" amount of damage according to ammo/range/armour etc., whilst MWO deals "y" amount of damage regardless of armour type and is usually subject to damage spread unless it is a single point shell or PPC bolt (range and tech style effects may still apply).

My advice, sit out the current event, pick one or two chassis that you enjoy and get into some decent groove play style and chill a bit knowing you will have good matches and bad matches - Tier means nothing when considering the fun you can have (sometimes lower the better as there's pressure to perform and tbh, I have multiple accounts and find I have the most fun in T4 - 3 where as T1 can be a royal pain in the backside as there's little room for error).

[Nesutizale]

Yes most of them are Omnis where some variant has an AMS...so yah kinda all mechs these days have an AMS if you will.

Still I am pretty sure not all Marauders had an AMS, same with the Warhammers and others but now they have. Strange...maybe I am stuck with TT configs in my head.

Edited by Nesutizale, 28 October 2021 - 01:52 AM.

[w0qj]

There is always an AMS torso part for Clan OmniMechs... you can refer to these sites:

[Table_View]
https://mwo.nav-alpha.com/mechs

[Old_Data]
https://mwo.smurfy-net.de

For Clan OmniMechs (Timber Wolf, Arctic Cheetah, Nova, Stormcrow, etc.), one can swap torso parts (head/arms/legs/Left_Torso/Right_Torso) by:

[MechLab]>>[Loadout]>>[Warehouse]>>[OmniPods]
~Then drag/drop the part into the "Title Bar" on your mech loadout.
~There is a cost in CBills involved, and you cannot buy Hero mech torso parts with CBills (must use MC or real money).

- - - - - - - - - - - -
The only exception that I can think of is: Cicada X-5 Hero mech is one of those very few (only?) mechs with no AMS hardpoint, hence no AMS.

Nesutizale, on 28 October 2021 - 01:29 AM, said:

I have 15 mechs that don't have an AMS slot. So yes there are some.
Strangly I remeber some of them not haveing an AMS but now they do. Not sure if I have ignored the AMS since forever or if they indeed got an upgrade that I never noticed.

Edited by w0qj, 28 October 2021 - 02:00 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Using flamers that have 90m range to get a headshot is now "toxic" gameplay?

And LRMs have some magic Arc?

[martian]

Nesutizale, on 28 October 2021 - 01:48 AM, said:

Yes most of them are Omnis where some variant has an AMS...so yah kinda all mechs these days have an AMS if you will.

So you "can" actually use OmniPod with AMS hardpoint, right?

Nesutizale, on 28 October 2021 - 01:48 AM, said:

Still I am pretty sure not all Marauders had an AMS, same with the Warhammers and others but now they have. Strange...

As far as I can say, all Marauder variants (MAD-3R, MAD-5D, MAD-5M and MAD-BH2) have always had AMS slot. Ditto Warhammers.

[Bud Crue]

martian, on 28 October 2021 - 01:31 AM, said:

Could you name some, so I can get the better idea, please?

Only one that comes to mind is the X-5 but there may be others.

MechaGnome, on 28 October 2021 - 12:26 AM, said:

Lurms are cancer boring in tiers 4&5 because everyone and their dogs are using them, because they take very little skill to target anything, ECM has been nerfed to hell is practically an invisibility shield at low tiers and the AMS, especially when multiple are mounted on easy to play mechs like the Crab, Jester, or Corsair are not only ineffective, but provide decent match score padding if artificially raising your tier is something you are in to.

The cauldron are light ranged trading mech fanatics so its going to be bias to them for the foresee able future..

Sorry, I couldn't help but correct this. As to the last bit about the Cauldron, that's a bit of a joke, but I think the map changes of late really encourage more long to mid range trading, than say, brawling or light mech play though both can still be quite satisfying.

[GentleMouse]

pinetemplar, on 27 October 2021 - 01:21 PM, said:

You just made the headshot problem even worse they i described it LOL. I am not arguing that you can actually make steps to minimize them or that they happen every match - my point is when it happens it makes game worse not better. NO ONE has argued against this so i presume all agree LOL.

Honestly? I often find that when headshots come up its' an exciting change of pace. Sometimes you get headshot (but live) when a shot to your center torso would have been lethal. Sometimes you see an atlas shutdown from overheat and line up a 50 damage pinpoint to punish it. I can count on one hand the number of times a headshot has caused a non game - for either myself or my target, and I've played thousands of games. Every other time a headshot has come up it's been novel and fun.