174 replies to this topic

[RickySpanish]

KuroNyra, on 28 October 2021 - 06:50 AM, said:

... Am I the only one that's taken notice of that... Particular player name?

Shush! The four letter acronym gives them a free ride!

[KuroNyra]

RickySpanish, on 28 October 2021 - 07:15 AM, said:

Shush! The four letter acronym gives them a free ride!

That ain't really the four letter that bother's me... But what follow...

[pinetemplar]

It is kind of funny that everyone outside of around 3 people are either answering their own fears or just being toxic LOL. But at least i learned something from all this **** show. Also i never sad that LRMs are OP LOL I sad that they are not fun to play against and apparently their trajectory is either bugged or just weird in some cases so maps are actually fine - they game just doesn't work as it should and all those covers should actually work as covers well in perfect world at least. And people just learned how to live with it. That is exactly why i sad that experienced player perspective is good when you need to change 5% to 6% in one stat on the mech but some things they just don't see cause they are used to them being either bugged or implemented wrong and learned how to work around them and don't even think about pushing for a change.

[pbiggz]

pinetemplar, on 28 October 2021 - 10:03 AM, said:

It is kind of funny that everyone outside of around 3 people are either answering their own fears or just being toxic LOL. But at least i learned something from all this **** show. Also i never sad that LRMs are OP LOL I sad that they are not fun to play against and apparently their trajectory is either bugged or just weird in some cases so maps are actually fine - they game just doesn't work as it should and all those covers should actually work as covers well in perfect world at least. And people just learned how to live with it. That is exactly why i sad that experienced player perspective is good when you need to change 5% to 6% in one stat on the mech but some things they just don't see cause they are used to them being either bugged or implemented wrong and learned how to work around them and don't even think about pushing for a change.

[w0qj]

There's always a counter to everything; that's the beauty of the BattleTech tabletop universe!

Nothing is entirely OP.
Otherwise everyone would be playing LRM boats, right?

T1/T2 players don't play LRM much, reasons as already discussed at length as above.

LRM is not overpowered; need we say more?

Edited by w0qj, 28 October 2021 - 10:12 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

pinetemplar, on 27 October 2021 - 10:07 AM, said:

Second: LRM. I mean i get it - lore but man. WHY CAN'T WE AT LEAST BE ABLE TO HIDE BEHIND BUILDINGS? This is more idiotic then artillery in WoT. And they are called all the censored words there - i presume here also. Is it that hard to balance them? Also there is almost none tall enough obstacles to hide behind. And i don't care about lore - this is zero fun and a lot of bad experiences.

I disagree with most of your other points for reasons stated by others. Lights... can definitely be annoying especially if you are slow, because they force you to have to deal with them so you don't lose your back. Typically you'll want to make sure you are nearby your team and use the command wheel to call for help, and make sure to shoot them. With experience it gets easier, and Piranhas in particular don't hold up very well, if you get one good hit on them they will either lose components or most likely back off. I would give it more time and stick to more mobile mechs until you get more comfortable shooting lights.

What I quoted above though, I very much agree with. LRMs had their indirect fire arc changed a couple years back so they can hit you behind tall cover that SHOULD be plenty tall enough to cover you. Yes, experienced players can mitigate LRMs by taking up specific positions, but often times that usually leads to boring and pointless games. Additionally, if a spud decides to bum rush you in a brawler, which would normally be an easy 1v1, but thanks to indirect fire a couple nosepickers with LRM boats can get free locks on you from Zimbabwe despite there being a mountain and 4 buildings between you and them, getting free damage and ruining your day, not to mention making it more difficult to aim.

It's extremely annoying and not fun, and leads to 1 dimensional games where everyone huddles next to the few hard cover areas on the map, and I agree with your assessment and have said before LRMs are not good for new players. Its unintuitive, you don't know why you are getting continuously damaged despite hiding, and no doubt leads to many people saying "**** this game", but there is a vocal minority (that use LRMs all the time) that would throw a fit if indirect fire was nerfed or all out removed. IMO, IDF needs less extreme arc and more spread.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 28 October 2021 - 10:32 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

pinetemplar, on 28 October 2021 - 10:03 AM, said:

It is kind of funny that everyone outside of around 3 people are either answering their own fears or just being toxic LOL. But at least i learned something from all this **** show. Also i never sad that LRMs are OP LOL I sad that they are not fun to play against and apparently their trajectory is either bugged or just weird in some cases so maps are actually fine - they game just doesn't work as it should and all those covers should actually work as covers well in perfect world at least. And people just learned how to live with it. That is exactly why i sad that experienced player perspective is good when you need to change 5% to 6% in one stat on the mech but some things they just don't see cause they are used to them being either bugged or implemented wrong and learned how to work around them and don't even think about pushing for a change.

Yeah it's posts like this.

The fact that actually solid replies, you won't reply too. Terminology used, played 150 games and is performing above average etc etc.

Alt account whine. Not a new player at all.

[Pika]

pinetemplar, on 28 October 2021 - 10:03 AM, said:

It is kind of funny that everyone outside of around 3 people are either answering their own fears or just being toxic LOL. But at least i learned something from all this **** show. Also i never sad that LRMs are OP LOL I sad that they are not fun to play against and apparently their trajectory is either bugged or just weird in some cases so maps are actually fine - they game just doesn't work as it should and all those covers should actually work as covers well in perfect world at least. And people just learned how to live with it. That is exactly why i sad that experienced player perspective is good when you need to change 5% to 6% in one stat on the mech but some things they just don't see cause they are used to them being either bugged or implemented wrong and learned how to work around them and don't even think about pushing for a change.

I get the feeling I'm taking too much bait here but... here we go:

Nothing with LRMs is bugged or OP or anything. The weapon, at best, will make an inexperienced player panic. From the sounds of it, you panicked at having your paint scratched from 1-2 missiles getting past the cover you were barely hiding behind or you got shot from someone else with a completely different angle.

It isn't that people "Learnt to live" with LRMs, it's that LRMs are garbage and do almost no damage, the damage they do is scattered across the 'Mech and relies on other people doing the work for you. The worst they make an experienced player do is tut and duck around a corner or charge straight under them to get inside your minimums (Clan LRMs have no minimums).

LRMs do need a change but I honestly think they need a straight up damage buff. Because they're so childishly easy to defeat. If you've died to or gotten annoyed by LRMs enough to come here and post, you're either not as good as you think at keeping hidden, or you're panicking over a small percentage of the missiles getting past your cover somehow. Not because of a bug, but because of how they scatter and spread. If you're taking hits from missiles, stay hidden until Radar Derp kicks in (you'll see a flash in your cockpit and hear a chirp when the enemy has lost lock), reposition or break LOS with whoever is ranging you, look for the UAV and call it out\shoot it down.

If you are unable to do these then you have over-extended and got caught out in the open and you earned that death. It happens to us all. Every now and again, you eat a few hundred missiles. Yes, actually a few hundred is required to down assaults. That's how crap they are.

LRMs are far FAR less annoying than arty in WoT. At least here you always have the chance to shoot back. If you don't, you're out of position and well then it's P.E.B.C.A.K.

Also while we're at it:
-Lights are the hard counter to bigger 'Mechs. Take Streaks and a TAG if they're really annoying you that much. Streaks are the hard counter to Lights. Nothing makes a light pilots bum fall out faster than a streak-boat MadDog.
- I prefer larger maps with more moving. I want positioning to play a more important role in the game if I'm honest with WAY bigger maps with reasons to spread the team out.
- I'm a legendary founder and I think I STILL don't have the "get 10 headshots" achievement. So like, they ain't common. Not a valid point.

Edited by Pika, 28 October 2021 - 10:52 AM.

[pattonesque]

pinetemplar, on 28 October 2021 - 10:03 AM, said:

It is kind of funny that everyone outside of around 3 people are either answering their own fears or just being toxic LOL. But at least i learned something from all this **** show. Also i never sad that LRMs are OP LOL I sad that they are not fun to play against and apparently their trajectory is either bugged or just weird in some cases so maps are actually fine - they game just doesn't work as it should and all those covers should actually work as covers well in perfect world at least. And people just learned how to live with it. That is exactly why i sad that experienced player perspective is good when you need to change 5% to 6% in one stat on the mech but some things they just don't see cause they are used to them being either bugged or implemented wrong and learned how to work around them and don't even think about pushing for a change.

what'd be your change to LRMs?

[pinetemplar]

Pika, on 28 October 2021 - 10:32 AM, said:

staff

dude read your post again and you will be embarrassed by how much you are answering your own fears and not even trying to understand my point LOL. How can 0.1% WoT player be caught in the open by artillery not to mention to die from it ? LLLOOOOLLLL

[pbiggz]

since its not necessarily clear yet, ppl really shouldn't give this guy time of day. Its obviously an alt fishing for reactions.

[pinetemplar]

pattonesque, on 28 October 2021 - 11:16 AM, said:

what'd be your change to LRMs?

Basically flatten the arc that you can actually hide from them behind most obstacles. And if what all the people are saying is true i presume after that their damage can be maybe buffed? They will be way less toxic for sure if missiles will not be coming from the sky almost vertically even if only sometimes.

pbiggz, on 28 October 2021 - 11:18 AM, said:

since its not necessarily clear yet, ppl really shouldn't give this guy time of day. Its obviously an alt fishing for reactions.

Way easier to hide your head in the sand ha?

[Pika]

pinetemplar, on 28 October 2021 - 11:17 AM, said:

dude read your post again and you will be embarrassed by how much you are answering your own fears and not even trying to understand my point LOL. How can 0.1% WoT player be caught in the open by artillery not to mention to die from it ? LLLOOOOLLLL

And to think you started so strong. You don't have a point. You're whining that you died to things you don't know how to play against. Sorry bud.

And wait.. are you suggesting a 0.1% player in MWO should be immune to missiles? Even the best players will die to it from time to time. It's a weapon. It deals damage, even if that damage is pathetic. The best players in the game will die to a single small laser on a zombie'd Hunchie from time to time too, probably.

Again, I stress: You're not making a point. You're whining.

I can't believe i'm going to type this but: Git gud. - In fact not even gud, just like, learn to play?

Edited by Pika, 28 October 2021 - 11:33 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

pinetemplar, on 28 October 2021 - 11:21 AM, said:

Basically flatten the arc that you can actually hide from them behind most obstacles.

Works for me.

Make it so.

[Novakaine]

Flatten the curve?
I think they're called MRMs.

[Gas Guzzler]

MRMs are straight.

I would propose the IDF arc be less steep, invalidates too much cover and drives new players away.

[w0qj]

With due respect, if LRM indirect flight curve (IDF) gets flattened out, there's not much difference between Clan ATM vs IS LRM anymore (except for the IS vs Clan minimum range).

AND notice that fewer folks are using ATM anymore, used LRM instead, because ATM basically does not have IDF flight mode anymore.

Edited by w0qj, 28 October 2021 - 03:47 PM.

[YueFei]

The IDF feature is not a problem in-and-of-itself. Other FPS have "IDF" in the form of grenades/molotov/smoke/flashbang/mortar/etc.

The difference is there's a skill gradient involved in using those weapons/items. The user must aim them and has direct control over their trajectory. There's no guidance at all. But people get hyped to see amazing throws, and the "target(s)" of these attacks doesn't feel helpless because there's a lot of decision-space for counter-play, and a corresponding skill gradient in defending against grenades/etc. This helps keep it all balanced.

In MWO, the only input the shooter has is to place reticule somewhere near the target box, keep it there for a few moments, then pull the trigger. Then continue to hold the reticule on target throughout the missile flight. The shooter otherwise has no way to influence the missiles' flight path.

This provides far less of a skill gradient in both using LRM IDF as well as defending against LRM IDF. That makes it much harder to make LRM IDF balanced across all skill levels, maps, and situations.

As deep mechanics changes for MWO are off-the-table, this is current state of affairs will remain. But if an overhaul to the mechanics/physics could ever be done at some point in the future, it should be possible to widen the gap between skill floor and skill ceiling for LRM use and LRM defense.

[JediPanther]

Make the lrm idf arc flatter and you might as well call them lmrms. Or just read my thread on all 50 lrm counters because even in the time passed since the threads creation the vast majority of counters still apply now. Even more so with more and more mechs able to carry ecm/ams.

[LordNothing]

pbiggz, on 28 October 2021 - 10:11 AM, said:

it warms my heart to see dune themed memes on the internet. these are indeed great times to be alive.