629 replies to this topic

[pattonesque]

MechaGnome, on 02 December 2021 - 05:11 AM, said:

Sounds like a plan.. But thats funny Medium mechs didn't surprisingly vanish from the game..

I know that you're disingenuous when it comes to this topic but: are there maybe certain numerical values that differ between light mechs and medium mechs that might explain this?

martian, on 02 December 2021 - 05:56 AM, said:

How often do you actually play light 'Mechs to test your theory that playing light 'Mechs is so advantageous?

this will not surprise you but: 8% of the time

Edited by pattonesque, 02 December 2021 - 06:24 AM.

[martian]

pattonesque, on 02 December 2021 - 06:21 AM, said:

this will not surprise you but: 8% of the time

Well, how unexpected ...

[pbiggz]

MechaGnome, on 02 December 2021 - 05:11 AM, said:

Sounds like a plan.. But thats funny Medium mechs didn't surprisingly vanish from the game..

Hello disingenuous argument.

As i've said to you before, fewer people would drag you if you weren't so intent on being dishonest.

MrMadguy, on 01 December 2021 - 09:53 PM, said:

Last thing I want to say before going offline. That's, how one gets that "Fafnir pilot" moniker. I have 100+ 'Mechs. Half of them are Assaults. I constantly play many of them. Slow clunky 100 tonners aren't even my favorite ones. So stop this "fafnir" thing.

You have zero grounds to really say anything when you so transparently have no idea how this game works, and you actively avoid ever learning anything new. You are intent on continuing to play the game you always have even though the game has changed, and you clearly argue in bad faith when you agitate for changes to the game *that would make it worse* specifically so you can personally perform better.

That's really the heart and soul of this. Its why people are being mean to you here. You don't know what you're doing. You don't want to learn. You want the game to be rebalanced extensively so that you personally can win more even if it guts the population and drives the game into the dirt. You don't care. As long as you get to win.

[ScrapIron Prime]

MrMadguy, on 01 December 2021 - 09:53 PM, said:

Last thing I want to say before going offline. That's, how one gets that "Fafnir pilot" moniker. I have 100+ 'Mechs. Half of them are Assaults. I constantly play many of them. Slow clunky 100 tonners aren't even my favorite ones. So stop this "fafnir" thing.

The fafnir is the only example you provided for the thread, so we all ran with that. Apologies if that was inaccurate. Are there other chassis or loadouts that you're finding equally disadvantaged in?

[PocketYoda]

pbiggz, on 02 December 2021 - 06:58 AM, said:

Hello disingenuous argument.

As i've said to you before, fewer people would drag you if you weren't so intent on being dishonest.



You have zero grounds to really say anything when you so transparently have no idea how this game works, and you actively avoid ever learning anything new. You are intent on continuing to play the game you always have even though the game has changed, and you clearly argue in bad faith when you agitate for changes to the game *that would make it worse* specifically so you can personally perform better.

That's really the heart and soul of this. Its why people are being mean to you here. You don't know what you're doing. You don't want to learn. You want the game to be rebalanced extensively so that you personally can win more even if it guts the population and drives the game into the dirt. You don't care. As long as you get to win.

How the hell am i being dishonest.. You are the dishonest crew.. Seriously its disgusting the tripe you people crap out.

[Remington1911]

I am pretty new to this game, a few months in and yes I do see some issues with the light mechs.

I think that 99% of the issue surrounding them could be solved with two easy changes to the mechanic.

1) When they hit or get hit, as in run into anything that is not another light they should take much more damage, this seems logical, it is a small fast lightly built unit that when 20 tons hitting something that is even 50 tons it should really hurt. Now how to work this mechanic, and have it based on the speed of both mechs in the "crash" don't know. But it should hurt.

2) Is a why the HE!! not. Your rotary AC's will jam if fired too long, the UAC's jam all the darn time, but the MG's never jam, whoever came up with this has never been around an MG and fired one for anything remotely close to a normal mech loadout in MG ammo. That or have the ammo broken down into say 300 round belts, you get 300 rounds then you need to pull back for say a good 30sec for a reloading of the belt. My Piranha has roughly 7000 rounds of MG ammo, and I have fired that all in one trigger pull....a huge mag dump.

Why does every other automatic ballistic weapon jam but not the MG's.

Do these two simple things and I think the LT mech issue will go away.

Now missile boats that needs some looking at as well. Plus some different game modes. Defend, and the other side of the coin assault. One team has no other job but to kill all, or capture the flag, the other team is to just setup defense or kill all for X time.

There are others, but off the top of my head while I wait for a Hyper-V server to transfer.

[pattonesque]

MechaGnome, on 03 December 2021 - 04:08 AM, said:

How the hell am i being dishonest.. You are the dishonest crew.. Seriously its disgusting the tripe you people crap out.

You said people still play mediums even though they are larger than lights, ignoring that they are also tougher with more firepower

So you’re either dishonest, trolling, or dim. Which is it?

[pbiggz]

MechaGnome, on 03 December 2021 - 04:08 AM, said:

How the hell am i being dishonest.. You are the dishonest crew.. Seriously its disgusting the tripe you people crap out.

Lets go through it shall we?

According to Jarls list, you haven't played with light mechs since may. Your overall stats say you play them 5% of the time. Your stats are being linked to point out that you evidently don't enjoy lights, or really understand how they are played, if you did, you'd play them more.

And yet, knowing that you don't enjoy lights or play them often. Here you are, speaking as though you have authority. Here's a few lies. Bolded for effect.

MechaGnome, on 03 December 2021 - 04:03 AM, said:

Because they play them wrong off "Scouting" to get killed..
Lights were never as big as Assaults in tabletop, They are still smaller than most mediums.
Because big numbers are what this game forces on players and Assaults are the king of big numbers..not team play.
Lights can get the same as mediums and some heavies and Assaults.
Again because this game is mainly solo play lights work best in packs more so than any other mechs..

I play light mechs a lot but not the flimsy ones. I enjoy light mechs a lot just if i need Cbills Assaults do it best.

So you claim you play them alot. We know that's not true. You also claim you know alot about them. Given how little you play them, and the body of the rest of your posts, you evidently don't know a lot about them either.
And we should point out the context of this post since this is from the other thread, you were advocating for this:

MechaGnome, on 01 December 2021 - 04:40 AM, said:

You missed the most important one OP..

Light mechs are too small.

and claimed this:

MechaGnome, on 02 December 2021 - 05:15 AM, said:

Yes people would play them no matter what.. And people would still be just as good with them.

This is definitely a claim. One you can't back up, and one that's easily disproved by precedent. It's not like this is the first time we've done a rescale in MWO. Did you think this was uncharted territory where you'd be able to smuggle in your own nerfs?
Remember when PGI did the volumetric rescale? Remember when 35 tonners disappeared from the game overnight, because some of them were roughly the size of mediums? Remember when they didn't resurface until extensive quirking made some of them worth running? I remember that. I know you remember. Here's a whole thread about it. So if you're saying this:

MechaGnome, on 02 December 2021 - 05:15 AM, said:

Yes people would play them no matter what.. And people would still be just as good with them.

when you know this happened, I, and everyone else, will assume, with plenty of justification, that you're arguing in bad faith. You know what you're talking about, you're pretending you don't because you have an angle. That's called dishonesty.

And just because it's a cherry on top, you, like every other fevered conspiracy theorist, from the anti-cauldron brawl lobby to the solo queue supremacists, can't help but engage in a little self-victimization.

MechaGnome, on 01 December 2021 - 04:36 AM, said:

It wont change op.. Too many in the inner circles of the game like their advantage. They should really be 2-3 times the size they are now but it wont happen.

Almost like your argument isn't strong enough to stand on it's own two legs, so you need to pretend the cauldron are the ones with the ulterior motive, not you. Projecting your own negative qualities onto your perceived foes is very Machiavellian of you. I'm not kidding, that's an actual political strategy. If you're resorting to that kind of skullduggery, I can only assume it's because you have an agenda. What that agenda actually is I can't say for sure, but my guess is, given your WLR and your weight class stats, you want everyone to be much bigger and much slower, so you can shoot them more easily when you pilot slow mechs, without you having to spend your own time practicing positioning and gunnery.

That's why people say you're dishonest.


*edited for spelling

Edited by pbiggz, 03 December 2021 - 09:08 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

MechaGnome, on 01 December 2021 - 04:36 AM, said:

It wont change op.. Too many in the inner circles of the game like their advantage. They should really be 2-3 times the size they are now but it wont happen.

And to beat a dead horse here, you want to know WHY light mechs won't ever massively scale up? Let's take a clue from the original battletech source material, shall we? How about the 3039 TRO source book, with all its bad art. Let's see how far off things are at present...



What? light mechs being only waist high to an assault mech? Who would have thought!?

[justcallme A S H]

MechaGnome, on 03 December 2021 - 04:08 AM, said:

How the hell am i being dishonest.. You are the dishonest crew.. Seriously its disgusting the tripe you people crap out.

Almost every post you make has something that is either complete misinformation or is just absolutely wrong.

I mean you claim you play light mechs a lot. The public days completely contradicts that and shows it to be completely false. Why are you lying about it? Like seriously, why do you do it?


No one can take anything you post seriously when you constantly spread misinformation on a almost daily basis.

[Remington1911]

Guys, do my ideas hold any water?

[justcallme A S H]

No

[CFC Conky]

Remington1911, on 03 December 2021 - 01:44 PM, said:

Guys, do my ideas hold any water?

Regarding machine guns jamming, probably not. From a gameplay standpoint, you have to get pretty close (except LMG's), for them to be effective, and you have to carry a bunch of them to boot. There are only a few mechs that can boat machine guns, most of them lightly armored, so I don't think it's a huge problem at the moment.

Besides, in the 31st century, they've probably figured out how to get mg's to shoot for a long time.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Edited by CFC Conky, 03 December 2021 - 03:30 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

CFC Conky, on 03 December 2021 - 03:16 PM, said:

Besides, in the 31st century, they've probably figured out how to get mg's to shoot for a long time.

But not rapid firing autocannons.

[Maddermax]

Remington1911 said:

1638535920[/url]' post='6436342']
I am pretty new to this game, a few months in and yes I do see some issues with the light mechs.

I think that 99% of the issue surrounding them could be solved with two easy changes to the mechanic.

1) When they hit or get hit, as in run into anything that is not another light they should take much more damage, this seems logical, it is a small fast lightly built unit that when 20 tons hitting something that is even 50 tons it should really hurt. Now how to work this mechanic, and have it based on the speed of both mechs in the "crash" don't know. But it should hurt.

2) Is a why the HE!! not. Your rotary AC's will jam if fired too long, the UAC's jam all the darn time, but the MG's never jam, whoever came up with this has never been around an MG and fired one for anything remotely close to a normal mech loadout in MG ammo. That or have the ammo broken down into say 300 round belts, you get 300 rounds then you need to pull back for say a good 30sec for a reloading of the belt. My Piranha has roughly 7000 rounds of MG ammo, and I have fired that all in one trigger pull....a huge mag dump.

Why does every other automatic ballistic weapon jam but not the MG's.

Do these two simple things and I think the LT mech issue will go away.

Now missile boats that needs some looking at as well. Plus some different game modes. Defend, and the other side of the coin assault. One team has no other job but to kill all, or capture the flag, the other team is to just setup defense or kill all for X time.

There are others, but off the top of my head while I wait for a Hyper-V server to transfer.

1) No. This is an entirely negative mechanic. All it means is less skilled pilots will kill themselves more often just trying to move around the map, throw up their hands in frustration, and give up on lights, and the different gameplay mechanics they offer. Or more experienced pilots will be taking cover, and get walked over by a dire wolf friendly who doesn’t care, and be team killed, causing massive frustration. So as said, it’s an entirely negative mechanic.

It doesn’t even solve the core issue of face hugging, because those collisions happen at very low speed, and so wouldn’t be as punished as someone just trying to play normally as a fast striker mech.

2) MGs are only just holding their own with laser options anyway, except for chasing down opened mechs. For back stabbers, a fully laser piranha is actually better in skilled hands, as it will kill quicker without splashing damage nearly as much. Spray and pray newbies will be punished only, and they’re not exactly being effective with them anyway. Essentially, the only issue with MGs In the game is the sheer number that the PIR-1 can boat - and after a long series of Piranha nerfs, it’s balanced by the chassis extreme vulnerability to be killed when hit by a soft boiled egg.

Edited by Maddermax, 03 December 2021 - 07:37 PM.

[Ignatius Audene]

Engine cant handle crashs. And Crashs in pvp games are rly hard to balance, that they dont result in an troll strategie (dragon bowling)

[Verilligo]

Ignatius Audene, on 04 December 2021 - 12:18 AM, said:

Engine cant handle crashs. And Crashs in pvp games are rly hard to balance, that they dont result in an troll strategie (dragon bowling)

There's a worse troll strategy than this. High damage collisions would require full reprogramming in order to function correctly with the scoring and penalty systems. Currently, destroying someone with collision damage awards the surviving player with the kill. That is independent of whether the killed person was an enemy or a teammate. What you're going to end up with unless there are extensive fixes made to every other interacting system is a whole LOT of people are going to get lengthy punishments for teamkilling... and it won't be their fault because the player in the light will get off without any penalty at all. This is without even considering that someone might attempt to use it with malicious intent.

It would be better to ask for kicking than asking for collision damage. At least then it would be an actively chosen move.

[Blood Rose]

justcallme A S H, on 01 December 2021 - 04:56 AM, said:

Citation/Proof/Evidence?

Technically, by Square cube Law, he is correct.
BUT, if we are talking about scaling then the Lights are hardly the problem, most mechs are massively oversized in-game.

[martian]

Verilligo, on 04 December 2021 - 07:35 AM, said:

It would be better to ask for kicking than asking for collision damage. At least then it would be an actively chosen move.

Kicking would be good, but it would require additional 'Mech animations.

[ScrapIron Prime]

martian, on 04 December 2021 - 11:33 PM, said:

Kicking would be good, but it would require additional 'Mech animations.

And that's kind of the limit we're up to, coding for an abandon-ware game engine. I mean, a good developer could learn it and do it, but that's an investment. and right now the game is coasting.