629 replies to this topic

[pbiggz]

MrMadguy, on 08 December 2021 - 07:13 AM, said:

Ask yourself simple question. What is difference between top Tier 4 and bottom Tier 3 players?

And what are you trying to insinuate when you want us to ask that question? Because it sounds like you're suggesting the matchmaker is targeting you personally, which is laughable.

[GoodTry]

It's kind of funny how so many threads seem to devolve into arguments about matchmaking these days.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

MrMadguy, on 08 December 2021 - 07:13 AM, said:

Ask yourself simple question. What is difference between top Tier 4 and bottom Tier 3 players?

The first is one step away from the gate of Hell, he can already feel the scorching heat and hear the screams of those within.
The latter is one step further.

[pattonesque]

GoodTry, on 08 December 2021 - 08:04 AM, said:

It's kind of funny how so many threads seem to devolve into arguments about matchmaking these days.

it comes down to "I believe I am literally Hanse Davion combined with Kai Allard-Liao, but I lose all the time, so I have to concoct elaborate theories as to why this is the case"

[martian]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 08 December 2021 - 08:05 AM, said:

The first is one step away from the gate of Hell, he can already feel the scorching heat and hear the screams of those within.
The latter is one step further.

That was a good one.

[justcallme A S H]

MrMadguy, on 08 December 2021 - 07:13 AM, said:

Ask yourself simple question. What is difference between top Tier 4 and bottom Tier 3 players?

About 10 matches.

[1453 R]

pattonesque, on 08 December 2021 - 08:22 AM, said:

it comes down to "I believe I am literally Hanse Davion combined with Kai Allard-Liao, but I lose all the time, so I have to concoct elaborate theories as to why this is the case"

Heckin' word. The percentage of any given vidya gaem population desperate to blame literally every possible factor on the entirety of planet Earth except their own suck for their performance is usually almost indistinguishable from 100. Nobody ever wants to hear "Odds are about even that you're a below average player", and they'll shriek at anything that forces them to consider it.

Or, to put it another way - leave the gorram matchmaker alone. It's been bad-touched enough as it is, let it do its job in peace. if you're sucking robot heiny in MWO, the answer is perched between your keyboard and your chair.

[Vyx]

Light mechs have always been the preferred chassis of the "get gud" class of players. You will never get them to realize there is a balance issue; to them, the light mech should always be the victor versus the assault -- "it's a rock-paper-scissors thing!"

Never mind that most lights are now boosted (quirked) with 10%-20% more armor than they can legally carry. Never mind they can literally run up impassible canyon walls. Never mind they their entire mech is smaller than some assault's single component hit boxes. Never mind that in some cases they carry double the number of weapon systems that an "assault" carries. "Fairness!" they cry. "So few players play lights, we need to boost them!"

Might it be that from the early days of the game's inception, lights were designed to be cheap and fast -- but not strong. Light pilots were supposed to be looked at as suicidal. Why were larger mechs even made? Why were super-heavy mechs even striven for? All of this is meaningless to the current community. They simply want a fast-paced stompy-robot shooter. Calls to enable melee or knockdowns are a call for additional reality. And as you can see by the general response to this thread, reality and lore be damned. The rush of 12-machine-gunning a fully armored Dire is too much to be resisted. "Look at muh skilz!"

This game has been around for 8 years. It was clear 4 years ago that it will no longer be invested in by the developers. All "balance" attempts will be performed now by an elite team of player "experts" and we should be happy we have even that. But don't expect our benevolent overlords will hear your concerns. They know best. And they will build their game. Not yours.

[caravann]

The mechs are made by magical ENDO STEEL and can take any weight based Impact.

Many complain that TANK should have better carry capacity, better mobility and better armor than a mech

But ENDO STEEL do not give the F if you want physics based on earthly limiting technology of today.

The light mechs bounces when struck by impact but do not break. So if you think that they can stomp at light techs the light mech is able to curl into a ball of ENDO STEEL and an Atlas can stand on a light mech since it's made out of magic metal.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Vyx, on 09 December 2021 - 02:48 AM, said:

Light mechs have always been the preferred chassis of the "get gud" class of players. You will never get them to realize there is a balance issue; to them, the light mech should always be the victor versus the assault -- "it's a rock-paper-scissors thing!"
…

Let me guess… you play almost exclusively assault mechs and never play a light mech.

[Maddermax]

Vyx said:

1639046929[/url]' post='6437131']
Light mechs have always been the preferred chassis of the "get gud" class of players. You will never get them to realize there is a balance issue; to them, the light mech should always be the victor versus the assault -- "it's a rock-paper-scissors thing!"

Never mind that most lights are now boosted (quirked) with 10%-20% more armor than they can legally carry. Never mind they can literally run up impassible canyon walls. Never mind they their entire mech is smaller than some assault's single component hit boxes. Never mind that in some cases they carry double the number of weapon systems that an "assault" carries. "Fairness!" they cry. "So few players play lights, we need to boost them!"

Might it be that from the early days of the game's inception, lights were designed to be cheap and fast -- but not strong. Light pilots were supposed to be looked at as suicidal. Why were larger mechs even made? Why were super-heavy mechs even striven for? All of this is meaningless to the current community. They simply want a fast-paced stompy-robot shooter. Calls to enable melee or knockdowns are a call for additional reality. And as you can see by the general response to this thread, reality and lore be damned. The rush of 12-machine-gunning a fully armored Dire is too much to be resisted. "Look at muh skilz!"

This game has been around for 8 years. It was clear 4 years ago that it will no longer be invested in by the developers. All "balance" attempts will be performed now by an elite team of player "experts" and we should be happy we have even that. But don't expect our benevolent overlords will hear your concerns. They know best. And they will build their game. Not yours.

You never played a light mech. You once played a medium. If they were powerful, in your mind, why didn’t you ever even play one? Instead, you near exclusively played assaults (93%) and heavies (6%).

The way it looks here is that you want a world of pure assault mechs and no variety. You desire your preferrred play style to be the only possible play style. That idea is extremely boring to me.

[Curccu]

Vyx, on 09 December 2021 - 02:48 AM, said:

Light mechs have always been the preferred chassis of the "get gud" class of players. You will never get them to realize there is a balance issue; to them, the light mech should always be the victor versus the assault -- "it's a rock-paper-scissors thing!"

Never mind that most lights are now boosted (quirked) with 10%-20% more armor than they can legally carry. Never mind they can literally run up impassible canyon walls. Never mind they their entire mech is smaller than some assault's single component hit boxes. Never mind that in some cases they carry double the number of weapon systems that an "assault" carries. "Fairness!" they cry. "So few players play lights, we need to boost them!"

Might it be that from the early days of the game's inception, lights were designed to be cheap and fast -- but not strong. Light pilots were supposed to be looked at as suicidal. Why were larger mechs even made? Why were super-heavy mechs even striven for? All of this is meaningless to the current community. They simply want a fast-paced stompy-robot shooter. Calls to enable melee or knockdowns are a call for additional reality. And as you can see by the general response to this thread, reality and lore be damned.

The rush of 12-machine-gunning a fully armored Dire is too much to be resisted. "Look at muh skilz!"

Lets start with this...
From Jarls... Vyx: Light 0%

some lights got more weapon hardpoints than assaults... true but weight doesn't matter? 2x AC20 is worse than 4 MGs? 4 ERPPC vs 8 small lasers?

Then referring to some BT battlevalue/lore cbill price stuff that has nothing to do with FPS game where each and every player has 1 mech (4 in FP) to play each game, there are no cheap cannon fodder, just players in their mechs that all SHOULD be viable in game.

And yeah "reality" I mean we are playing **** teched (yeah 120 meter range with half ton machinegun) stompy robots in future 2000 Year from now. And lore omg... lore is nice but it's made for books and turn based tactical game played with freakkin dices.. I mean we could throw D6 each time we hit a mech and see do we really hit and where.

And IMO takes more skill to take down Dire with MG PIR than almost any reasonable Dire build to kill Piranha. How do you like MG PIR chances VS something like this dwf-w or dwf-w or dwf-prime? I'd say pretty slim.

Vyx, on 09 December 2021 - 02:48 AM, said:

This game has been around for 8 years. It was clear 4 years ago that it will no longer be invested in by the developers. All "balance" attempts will be performed now by an elite team of player "experts" and we should be happy we have even that. But don't expect our benevolent overlords will hear your concerns. They know best. And they will build their game. Not yours.

Cauldron has my full support to build their game which is also my game, do I agree with all the changes? No, but great majority yes. What I understand not even whole cauldron people agree with everything internally.

edit: typo.

Edited by Curccu, 09 December 2021 - 05:29 AM.

[pbiggz]

ScrapIron Prime, on 09 December 2021 - 03:59 AM, said:

Let me guess… you play almost exclusively assault mechs and never play a light mech.

Jesus christ. 93 percent assault mechs.

[pbiggz]

Vyx, on 09 December 2021 - 02:48 AM, said:

Stuff

I was going to break your post down bit by bit, but considering its just a quivering mass of nonsense, I think I'll pass. You don't like lights. You don't pilot lights. You dont understand lights. You think when you die to them its unfair, because you don't understand why you died, or what it took to kill you, and you don't want to understand. You just want them to go away.

"Buff what I play and nerf what I dont like" is not a defensible balancing approach. It's laughable. It must be dismissed outright.

[Vyx]

I don't play light mechs because I don't like to. And I'm not required to. I consider myself pretty much an exclusive assault mech pilot, and my stats bear that out.

That being said, one would think that if anyone would have a valid viewpoint with regard to the "light vs. assault" perspective, it would be someone who plays them often. Call me crazy.

Regardless, you do you. Nothing we say here will change anything.

[pbiggz]

Vyx, on 09 December 2021 - 06:02 AM, said:

I don't play light mechs because I don't like to. And I'm not required to. I consider myself pretty much an exclusive assault mech pilot, and my stats bear that out.

That being said, one would think that if anyone would have a valid viewpoint with regard to the "light vs. assault" perspective, it would be someone who plays them often. Call me crazy.

Regardless, you do you. Nothing we say here will change anything.

I don't play lights often either, I don't enjoy playing them and I'm no good at them, but I'm not the one asserting that they're broken. You are.

[ScrapIron Prime]

pbiggz, on 09 December 2021 - 06:03 AM, said:

I don't play lights often either, I don't enjoy playing them and I'm no good at them, but I'm not the one asserting that they're broken. You are.

Ditto. I'm about 3% light mech time. When I'm done with a match in a light mech, I usually say "damn that was a lot of work for only 300 damage." Most folks are like that, honestly, which is why light mechs are the least played weight class.

I get that you don't like getting killed by a fast mech that can stay behind you with tiny weapons. But that doesn't mean its broken, it just means that pilot was using it correctly. And it doesn't mean that you can't vaporize said fast mech with one solid hit and that its pilot is working his/her hardest to make sure you have a hard time lining up that shot.

Vyx, on 09 December 2021 - 06:02 AM, said:

That being said, one would think that if anyone would have a valid viewpoint with regard to the "light vs. assault" perspective, it would be someone who plays them often. Call me crazy.

Well that's just it... you don't play them often. You only play one of them and never touch the other, so you're missing half the viewpoint. I mean, if for example you drive a car but never drive a motorcycle and don't own one, why would your insight on Harvey Davidson products be useful?

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 09 December 2021 - 06:24 AM.

[martian]

Vyx, on 09 December 2021 - 02:48 AM, said:

Light mechs have always been the preferred chassis of the "get gud" class of players.

When I see elite players in the game, they usually pilot Mad Cat Mk. II, Night Gyr, Fafnir, etc.

I can not say that I see them in light 'Mechs too often, piloting Panther, Jenner or Spider.

Vyx, on 09 December 2021 - 02:48 AM, said:

You will never get them to realize there is a balance issue; to them, the light mech should always be the victor versus the assault -- "it's a rock-paper-scissors thing!"

I can not remember top players saying "the light mech should always be the victor versus the assault" too often. Could you post links to some such posts?

Vyx, on 09 December 2021 - 02:48 AM, said:

Never mind that most lights are now boosted (quirked) with 10%-20% more armor than they can legally carry.

Yes, because 40-50-point alpha strikes dished out by many heavier 'Mechs are nothing uncommon in MWO. So yes, some light 'Mechs got armor quirks to survive on the MWO battlefield..

By the way, what about medium, heavy and Assault 'Mechs? I am asking because for example AS7-D Atlas can legally carry 608 points of armor. However, its quirks give Atlas additional 158 points of armor. If I count correctly, this is +26% more armor.

Vyx, on 09 December 2021 - 02:48 AM, said:

Never mind they can literally run up impassible canyon walls.

Impassable for Assaults, not for light 'Mechs.

Since light 'Mechs can not compete with Assaults in the armor protection, they must use their speed and agility to survive.

Vyx, on 09 December 2021 - 02:48 AM, said:

Never mind they their entire mech is smaller than some assault's single component hit boxes.

Yes, light 'Mechs are smaller than Assault 'Mechs. They carry less armor than Assault 'Mechs too.

"Locust ... It is currently the smallest of all 'Mechs used."
Right from the Technical Readout: 3025, since you care about BattleTech lore so much.

Vyx, on 09 December 2021 - 02:48 AM, said:

Never mind that in some cases they carry double the number of weapon systems that an "assault" carries.

You mean Piranha armed with 12 Machine Guns? And could you compare the range and damage dished out by Piranha with the range and damage dished out by Fafnir armed with a pair of Heavy Gauss Rifles and lasers?

Vyx, on 09 December 2021 - 02:48 AM, said:

"Fairness!" they cry. "So few players play lights, we need to boost them!"

Light 'Mechs really are the least played class of 'Mechs in MWO.

Vyx, on 09 December 2021 - 02:48 AM, said:

Might it be that from the early days of the game's inception, lights were designed to be cheap and fast -- but not strong.

Pardon? Having Jenner (especially "Oxide") behind your Assault 'Mech's back was a bad news.
Ditto Firestarter.
Ditto Arctic Cheetah.

Vyx, on 09 December 2021 - 02:48 AM, said:

Light pilots were supposed to be looked at as suicidal. Why were larger mechs even made? Why were super-heavy mechs even striven for? All of this is meaningless to the current community. They simply want a fast-paced stompy-robot shooter.

Light 'Mechs were designed for certain roles, for which heavier 'Mechs would be unsuitable or overkill. However, they can fight too:
"The Locust was originally designed as a light and fast recon vehicle, a role it has fulfilled well for both the old Star League and the later Successor States. Lightly armed and very mobile, it offers fast recon ability as well as quick strike capability.
The Locust of 3025 retains these features, but in many cases also acts as a front-line 'Mech."
► BattleTech Technical Readout: 3025.

Vyx, on 09 December 2021 - 02:48 AM, said:

Calls to enable melee or knockdowns are a call for additional reality.

Such calls are unrealistic wishes, nothing more. PGI already announced years ago that no such physical attacks are in plans.

Vyx, on 09 December 2021 - 02:48 AM, said:

And as you can see by the general response to this thread, reality and lore be damned. The rush of 12-machine-gunning a fully armored Dire is too much to be resisted. "Look at muh skilz!"

In BattleTech I attempt to use my Piranha, Havoc or Jenner to harass or kill enemy 'Mechs, exactly as I would in MechWarrior Online.

BattleTech lore support my tactics:
"The Jenner can move in quickly, make its attack and retreat before it can be seriously damaged."
"The Jenner was designed as a close-range fighter, ..."
"MechWarrior Grace Shiro: She is known as a skilled and daring MechWarrior, fond of hunting larger 'Mechs [while piloting Jenner]".
► BattleTech Technical Readout: 3025.

Vyx, on 09 December 2021 - 02:48 AM, said:

This game has been around for 8 years. It was clear 4 years ago that it will no longer be invested in by the developers. All "balance" attempts will be performed now by an elite team of player "experts" and we should be happy we have even that. But don't expect our benevolent overlords will hear your concerns. They know best. And they will build their game. Not yours.

Since you do not play light 'Mechs at all, I am not sure that you are the right person who can judge if the light 'Mechs in MWO are OP or not.

Edited by martian, 09 December 2021 - 06:36 AM.

[GoodTry]

ScrapIron Prime, on 09 December 2021 - 06:18 AM, said:

I'm about 3% light mech time. When I'm done with a match in a light mech, I usually say "damn that was a lot of work for only 300 damage." Most folks are like that, honestly, which is why light mechs are the least played weight class.

It's funny, but that's pretty much how I feel playing assaults and heavies.

With a light, you can zip around, mess with the other team, pick off out-of-position mechs, and often make zero-damage trades. But with the heavier/slower mechs you have to get it right the first time.

[Vyx]

martian, on 09 December 2021 - 06:30 AM, said:

Since you do not play light 'Mechs at all, I am not sure that you are the right person who can judge if the light 'Mechs in MWO are OP or not.

I don't have to be a criminal to know that crime is wrong. My perspective as a competent Assault mech pilot grants me the authority to speak with some gravitas on the matter. Light mechs stuffing themselves under my knees, shooting my pee-pee over and over again where I cannot even find them is definitely broken, if not a bit comical. It ceases being amusing however, around the 112th time.