629 replies to this topic

[Andrewlik]

Light mechs are objectively the worst class in MWO. However, they are the most annoying against players who don't know how to deal with them.
A guy on the forums proposed a day where we all queue up in light mechs and then let chaos run wild.
So bring your locust and your fleas, your cicadas and piranhas, and lets wreck some havoc!

Promotional Video: https://youtu.be/Wf2Vy4Yqg-Y

Event link: https://discord.gg/J...792086807449691

Also on PGI's MW5/MWO discord as well. Not officially affiliated or anything, just the idea initially gained traction over there so i thought it would be fair to my fellow mechwarriors over there. Link to PGI's server: https://discord.gg/hcnbX5r

Forum Thread: https://mwomercs.com...c-flea-for-all/

[Mochyn Pupur]

Certain lights still have god boxes that seriously need to be addressed. The vast majority of rebalance has been in their favour either in structural, armour of or agility and the fact that the famous engine desync shifted things even more in their favour has made matters far worse.

Yes, when heavy weapons land on a light, it should shred them, making a light somewhat of a paper doll, but hit registration, miniscule hit boxes and the ability to move in a way that would physically be impossible, still keeps the light mech as a high threat risk to anything.

Anyone saying that lights are messed up clearly haven't stopped to look at how they have steadily gone from strength to strength while the heavier chassis still lag behind, making the whole process of the rebalance even worse. Hopefully things will eventually catch up, but how many folk will become disgruntled and jack the game in or not stay as a new player because of the current disparity?

[Weeny Machine]

PeppaPig, on 21 February 2022 - 07:42 AM, said:

Certain lights still have god boxes that seriously need to be addressed. The vast majority of rebalance has been in their favour either in structural, armour of or agility and the fact that the famous engine desync shifted things even more in their favour has made matters far worse.

Yes, when heavy weapons land on a light, it should shred them, making a light somewhat of a paper doll, but hit registration, miniscule hit boxes and the ability to move in a way that would physically be impossible, still keeps the light mech as a high threat risk to anything.

Anyone saying that lights are messed up clearly haven't stopped to look at how they have steadily gone from strength to strength while the heavier chassis still lag behind, making the whole process of the rebalance even worse. Hopefully things will eventually catch up, but how many folk will become disgruntled and jack the game in or not stay as a new player because of the current disparity?

You know, in online pvp games people gravitate to the characters/avatars/gear/skills etc which is op or next to it. Weirdly enough, lights are constantly severely underrepresented while matches are full of heavies and assaults. But I suppose that MWO is just this one game which is different of all the others, right?

There are also an abundance of counter measures against lights (seismic, streaks, pinpoint weapons, uavs to signal your buddies that there is a dorito for them etc). Maybe you don't want to laz0r spamz0r all the time but use pinpoint damage weapons. I just come from a match were I 2-shotted a Firestarter with my 3 SNPPC. I hit both times the side torso and boom.

But maybe I overlook something and you with your abundant experience of 15 matches in a light played in 4 seasons can enlighten me how OP they really are.


Edit: This post may contain heavy doses of sarcasm

Edited by Weeny Machine, 21 February 2022 - 09:23 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

MPhoenix, on 28 November 2021 - 08:03 PM, said:

It's a general statement and for the most part they are fine but there's one issue that makes them utter BS in the game.
Absolute lack of consequence to the whole face hugging/strafing idiocy.

Yeah, I think bumping up collision damage is the best compromise we can hope for. The challenging part is how much? Host State Rewind makes accurate collision unreliable if in extreme cases, but the main problem is friendlies colliding innocently. If possible, I'd like to see markedly higher damage with enemies but not with friendlies.

Another idea would be to add a consumable that is an AoE damage weapon. Like a sort of repulsion wave. Probably problems with this idea that I just came up with but it's worth considering.

[ScrapIron Prime]

TheCaptainJZ, on 21 February 2022 - 10:29 AM, said:

Yeah, I think bumping up collision damage is the best compromise we can hope for. The challenging part is how much?

Yeah, I am really not in favor of returning to the olden days of Dragon Bowling.

TheCaptainJZ, on 21 February 2022 - 10:29 AM, said:

Host State Rewind makes accurate collision unreliable if in extreme cases, but the main problem is friendlies colliding innocently. If possible, I'd like to see markedly higher damage with enemies but not with friendlies.

I don't think damage works that way in this game engine. Or at least it never has.

[Duke Falcon]

Everyone on this forum! Hear and heed as my words would be the utter wish of 275% of players!
I got killed! Because I can not play what I were killed with!

So...

DROPSHIP TURRETS ARE OP, NERF THEM IMMEDIATELY AND NOW DONE LATEST AT YESTERDAY!

[1453 R]

ScrapIron Prime, on 21 February 2022 - 12:13 PM, said:

Yeah, I am really not in favor of returning to the olden days of Dragon Bowling.

To be fair, wouldn't need to be. One can very simply and easily program something like pseudomelee/'Charge' into the game. Give every 'Mech a new function, 'Charge'. Push the button bound to Charge, and your collision damage - both inflicted and received - is massively boosted for...say, three seconds, based on speed. After that, ten-second cooldown before you can Charge again. No knockdowns involved, but it'd give unarmed sticks a way to try and fight - which is a huge failing of any "BattleTech" game with no melee; melee is a core, integral part of the original source and its lack has made every single MechWarrior game ever made weird. And it'd allow fatty Fatbro assault drivers to realize crotch-hugging lights aren't the problemm, have never been the problem, and will never be the problem, and that the problem is and always has been their piss-miserable loadouts, abyssmal aim, and complete and utter lack of situational awareness and dogfighting skills step on overaggressive close-range lights the way they want to without turning the entire game into a pinata party.

Sadly, even that much new source code is beyond the current dev team, and frankly they'd probably have at least half an argument when they rebuffed the idea with "a damaging attack with no visual indicators of being in use isn't great for balance". Even if the lack of melee or worthwhile collisions is worse for balance. Seriously, no other shooter I can think of doesn't ensure you always have at least one option to attack your enemies with. BattleTech/MechWarrior needs melee as the desperate fallback for weaponless 'Mechs it's always been.

[Blood Rose]

Melee would be cool but you have to understand:
The engine for MWO is so old and its code base so obscure that few people, none of them working for PGI, know how to do anything beyond change a few values with it.

[MPhoenix]

Groupthink is boring so I decided to walk away from this bickerfest however poking sacred cows can be fun so I'll share this link.

Obviously these two noobs don't know what they are talking about and don't have the skill to truly understand light mech play.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

So, you're bringing up this video, that clearly states that it is about the MLX and the MLX alone, even a very specific setup of the mist lynx, several times, and apply it to a topic about the light class in general, am I understanding you right?

[Curccu]

So sniper (90-95% of weapon mass used were gauss/erppc/erll) builds lose to brawlers 1vs1 most of the time? Yes as they ******* should.

Take a ******* quad LBX10+2xERPPC kodiak, triple LBX10+5xSPL NTG, 6xAC5/AC2 Anni, heavy gauss anni/sleipnir, AC20+3xSNNPC, scorch/orion iic meta srm/lbx20 or something else brawl vs brawl build or any dakka build, instead of these 600-1000+m snipe builds.

and see how is that MLX doing against it.

[Knownswift]

Curccu, on 24 February 2022 - 12:30 AM, said:

So sniper (90-95% of weapon mass used were gauss/erppc/erll) builds lose to brawlers 1vs1 most of the time? Yes as they ******* should.

Take a ******* quad LBX10+2xERPPC kodiak, triple LBX10+5xSPL NTG, 6xAC5/AC2 Anni, heavy gauss anni/sleipnir, AC20+3xSNNPC, scorch/orion iic meta srm/lbx20 or something else brawl vs brawl build or any dakka build, instead of these 600-1000+m snipe builds.

and see how is that MLX doing against it.

If it's alone its going to get ******. Which is what that video reinforces.

I don't know if they ever bring it up, but atleast in the few matchups I watched out of that video the MLX is hurt enough that it probably won't get away with it a second time.

Maybe take some armor away tho. When Bows lights him up straight in the chest with that assault that shoulda been yellow or orange open, IMO.

[Curccu]

Knownswift, on 24 February 2022 - 01:03 AM, said:

If it's alone its going to get ******. Which is what that video reinforces.

I don't know if they ever bring it up, but atleast in the few matchups I watched out of that video the MLX is hurt enough that it probably won't get away with it a second time.

Maybe take some armor away tho. When Bows lights him up straight in the chest with that assault that shoulda been yellow or orange open, IMO.

Yes most of the matches data is very badly hurt.... and wouldn't do much or even anything against 2nd ranged mech like the 1st.

JJ juggle messes up damage/hit reg a bit and bowser seems to miss most of the shots with gauss/erppc when data is getting close.

I don't even know why MPhoenix posted this video or what the hell is he trying to say... that lights are OP?

[ejw0508]

I hardly post so here I go light mechs are NOT supposed to tank they are to scout not leg hug assaults and get kills so why would you give a light mech as much armor as a medium? I really don’t want to hear how they under perform. It could be the pilot. So we are now going to pay to win on lights thank you

[pattonesque]

ejw0508, on 21 March 2022 - 10:58 AM, said:

I hardly post so here I go light mechs are NOT supposed to tank they are to scout not leg hug assaults and get kills so why would you give a light mech as much armor as a medium? I really don’t want to hear how they under perform. It could be the pilot. So we are now going to pay to win on lights thank you

so you don't want to hear how the actual results don't back up what you've convinced yourself is happening

Edited by pattonesque, 21 March 2022 - 10:59 AM.

[martian]

ejw0508, on 21 March 2022 - 10:58 AM, said:

I hardly post so here

Greetings!

ejw0508, on 21 March 2022 - 10:58 AM, said:

I go light mechs are NOT supposed to tank ... so why would you give a light mech as much armor as a medium?

The majority of light 'Mechs in MWO is quite fragile.

UrbanMech has some durablity quirks, sure. But other light 'Mechs, not so much.

Those light 'Mechs should survive in MWO, where many heavier 'Mechs can dish out 40-50-point accurate alphastrikes.

ejw0508, on 21 March 2022 - 10:58 AM, said:

they are to scout not leg hug assaults and get kills

Sorry, but in the BattleTech universe many light 'Mechs have been designed with the direct combat in mind: Jenner, Wolfhound, Panther, Puma, Cougar, Razorback, Incubus or Rokurokubi.

ejw0508, on 21 March 2022 - 10:58 AM, said:

I really don’t want to hear how they under perform.

From what I know, MWO stats show that light 'Mechs underperform - for example, they have the lowest average Match Score..

What opposing proof do you have?

ejw0508, on 21 March 2022 - 10:58 AM, said:

It could be the pilot.

The pilot with his gunnery skills and piloting skills is always important.

ejw0508, on 21 March 2022 - 10:58 AM, said:

So we are now going to pay to win on lights thank you

Could you post some examples of "pay-to-win", when it comes to light 'Mechs in MWO?

[pbiggz]

we're back boys

[Eider]

Light mechs are easy to use but i see people still love saying it takes skill. Got 2 kills on my fresh flea, the only light i would consider 'hard' to use is maybe the commando without stealth armor. They arent popular tho because some people dont like the designs. Can you imagine a world where physics exist? They should at least take damage and be pushed when a 100 ton mech goes in x direction. Game makes me laugh, imagine a one person Kia stopping a tank from moving and you get this.

martian, on 21 March 2022 - 11:38 AM, said:

Greetings!



The majority of light 'Mechs in MWO is quite fragile.

UrbanMech has some durablity quirks, sure. But other light 'Mechs, not so much.

Those light 'Mechs should survive in MWO, where many heavier 'Mechs can dish out 40-50-point accurate alphastrikes.



Sorry, but in the BattleTech universe many light 'Mechs have been designed with the direct combat in mind: Jenner, Wolfhound, Panther, Puma, Cougar, Razorback, Incubus or Rokurokubi.



From what I know, MWO stats show that light 'Mechs underperform - for example, they have the lowest average Match Score..

What opposing proof do you have?



The pilot with his gunnery skills and piloting skills is always important.



Could you post some examples of "pay-to-win", when it comes to light 'Mechs in MWO?

Cipher, gg.

[pattonesque]

Eider, on 21 March 2022 - 07:20 PM, said:

Light mechs are easy to use but i see people still love saying it takes skill. Got 2 kills on my fresh flea, the only light i would consider 'hard' to use is maybe the commando without stealth armor. They arent popular tho because some people dont like the designs. Can you imagine a world where physics exist? They should at least take damage and be pushed when a 100 ton mech goes in x direction. Game makes me laugh, imagine a one person Kia stopping a tank from moving and you get this.


Cipher, gg.

and what's the deal with lasers?

[martian]

Eider, on 21 March 2022 - 07:20 PM, said:

Light mechs are easy to use but i see people still love saying it takes skill.

The higher you move, the more difficult is to achieve consistent good results when piloting light 'Mechs. Opposing pilots have good gunnery skills, good tactical skills and good situational awareness.

If you are piloting a light 'Mech and fighting skilled opponents (especially if they are piloting heavier 'Mechs), your first mistake can be easily your last mistake.

Eider, on 21 March 2022 - 07:20 PM, said:

Got 2 kills on my fresh flea, the only light i would consider 'hard' to use is maybe the commando without stealth armor.

Congrats to your good game. Still, game-wide statistics say that light 'Mechs have the lowest average Match Score.

Eider, on 21 March 2022 - 07:20 PM, said:

They arent popular tho because some people dont like the designs.

Interesting explanation.

Eider, on 21 March 2022 - 07:20 PM, said:

Can you imagine a world where physics exist? They should at least take damage and be pushed when a 100 ton mech goes in x direction. Game makes me laugh, imagine a one person Kia stopping a tank from moving and you get this.

1. MWO is not a real-world physics simulator - MWO is a PC game.

2. Light 'Mechs colliding with Assault 'Mech actually do take a damage - to legs and sometimes to other sections.

Eider, on 21 March 2022 - 07:20 PM, said:

Cipher, gg.

Fragile non-ECM light 'Mech with a short range loadout.

1. What makes "Cipher" "pay-to-win"?

2. Why is not the game flooded with these OP 'Mechs? Especially now, when they are on sale?