629 replies to this topic

[Der Geisterbaer]

Nebuchednezzar, on 30 November 2022 - 01:41 PM, said:

Do you really think a heavy MG will destroy an M1A1 Abrams as opposed to something else with a much higher caliber ballistic? At best the heavy MG will deface the paint off but not do enough damage to rip them apart.

Well you in turn do really seem to think that a real world comparison with something like a ~40kg (sans ammo) Browning M2 vs. a present day battle tank is in any shape or form suitable when dealing with fictional battletech "machine guns" that are explicitly capable of harming battlemech armor and happen to weigh between 250 and 1000kg ... which at the lower end is more akin to a Vulcan auto-cannon or a GAU-8 Avenger and at the top end exceeds pretty much everything commonly known. Note that both Vulcans and GAU-8 have little trouble with doing more than defacing paint on battle tanks. Even today the GAU-8 has enough firepower against modern battle tanks that the US airforce maintains its Warthog fleet.

Kudos however for making this stupid comparison with "heavy machine guns" instead of the usual comparison with standard machine guns like the M60.

Nebuchednezzar, on 30 November 2022 - 01:41 PM, said:

But lights aren't unbalanced. Nope. Not in the slightest. Even players like Baradul, TTB, and DATA will tell you lights are now way too OP and if they are saying it then there must be at least some shred of truth to it.

Ah, the blessings of the appeal to authority fallacy. Let's ignore that all three players you mention there have their own agendas and simply compare their claims against the statistical realities of this game:

1. Name the mech weight class with the on average highest number of players per match and overall
2. Name the mech weight class with the on average least number of players per match and overall.
3. Name the mech weight class that has the highest average match score / K/D-ratio / average damage per match across all players.
4. Name the mech weight class that has the least average match score / K/D-ratio / average damage per match across all players.

Once you have done that please explain how those realitues stack up against the "shred of thruth" that your authority figures spout every once in a while with varying degrees of intellectual honesty and / or (im-) proper methodology.

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 01 December 2022 - 10:29 AM.

[Nebuchednezzar]

Curccu, on 30 November 2022 - 01:58 PM, said:

Racs do around 20 DPS how long does it take for you to twist or get into cover if they instantly rip your mech to pieces?
I could also suggest some LBX builds... twin LB20-X and quad LB10-X those will take out lights with few hits and are pretty easy to hit with.

All mech are meant to destroy enemy mechs in this game, always has been.
You got pretty ****** assault build if you cannot out damage light mech. I would guess real reason is bad aim.



How often do you play tabletop with 1 light mech against 1 assault mech? Oh yeah there is this thing called battle value and you can take multiple lights with same price as assault mech right? In this game you get 1 mech and that's it. Unless you are playing FP.
Multiple UAC20 hits as at least 3? 60 damage? if you spread that damage all over the mech yeah sure can take 3 hits or even 10 hits after all it's only 200 damage and unquirked & unskilled 35 tonners have more armor than that.
FP rating?



I wouldn't hold my breath getting anther mech warrior (PVP) game ever after this.

No, very poor twist and pitch yaw on most assaults (as in either too slow to track the light or can't pitch low enough to reach them when they face plant up your ***) and Again, no light should be able to tank that much damage.

My Summoner has 76 pinpoint ( 2 heavy large and 4 heavy medium) and I have hit many light mechs dead front CT, no splash, full burn and it doesn't always penetrate the armor let alone kill the mech and the same happens when I hit the R or L torso which should rip it off.

I have even directly targeted legs on the 20T mechs and 76 points to a leg full burn should remove it and it doesn't. I don't flinch when I get fired on and make my shot before twisting away.

I have a King Crab with 2 AC20 and 4 Snubs R/L side (fires 1 AC 20 and 2 snubs to prevent ghost heat) and when you hit a light mech with that it should halve the mech when you hit the same torso on it at the very least and it doesn't.

If you leave me uncontested at range with a guass rifle in a stealth mech I will blow out your cockpit so it's not my aim.

[Curccu]

Nebuchednezzar, on 01 December 2022 - 06:49 AM, said:

No, very poor twist and pitch yaw on most assaults (as in either too slow to track the light or can't pitch low enough to reach them when they face plant up your ***) and Again, no light should be able to tank that much damage.

Not my XP when piloting assaults, but I have 1 shotted a lot of lights with assault mechs... specially Piranhas.
What is that much? This 76? Yeah lights cannot and will not tank that much to single component.. well few actually might but in general they don't.

Nebuchednezzar, on 01 December 2022 - 06:49 AM, said:

My Summoner has 76 pinpoint ( 2 heavy large and 4 heavy medium) and I have hit many light mechs dead front CT, no splash, full burn and it doesn't always penetrate the armor let alone kill the mech and the same happens when I hit the R or L torso which should rip it off.

I have even directly targeted legs on the 20T mechs and 76 points to a leg full burn should remove it and it doesn't. I don't flinch when I get fired on and make my shot before twisting away.

Either your internet connection is unstable or you miss the shot.

Nebuchednezzar, on 01 December 2022 - 06:49 AM, said:

I have a King Crab with 2 AC20 and 4 Snubs R/L side (fires 1 AC 20 and 2 snubs to prevent ghost heat) and when you hit a light mech with that it should halve the mech when you hit the same torso on it at the very least and it doesn't.

it shouldn't and it doesn't it's only 40 damage and with zero skills and quirks 30 tonner can take that hit to sidetorso and keep that sidetorso, 28 armor and 14 structure, for 30 tonners without skilltree.

Fle-17 has total 46 hitpoints with skilltree in sidetorsos.
So no Lights mechs do not lose sidetorso with 40 damage not even piranha.

Nebuchednezzar, on 01 December 2022 - 06:49 AM, said:

If you leave me uncontested at range with a guass rifle in a stealth mech I will blow out your cockpit so it's not my aim.

Vidz plz, you doing those huge alphas to light and they not losing stuff or those headshots... both are nice.


I'll leave Darians video from this same thread here to show what happens when that summoner alpha actually hits 20 tonner.

Darian DelFord, on 30 November 2022 - 02:19 PM, said:

[sosegado]

Louis Brofist, on 30 November 2022 - 03:52 PM, said:

Guys.

Chill it with the light mechs.

Light mechs are pushovers.

Jjust don't panic ffs, they're easy to pop. Don't be intimidated by them. Be aggressive and just shoot them in the face (or legs). Punish their arrogance. Make them fear you. Make them regret attacking you.

That's the attitude you need in MWO. For all mechs not just lights.

As someone that just started playing lights in the last couple of months I urge all of you that read this: do NOT take this advice!

I'm enough of a danger to myself without having enemies actually shooting me!

Don't make my battles as a light pilot any harder then they have to be!

[Curccu]

Had to play few games to see how horribad MG lights ganking slow assaults this is... 5th game in and I have seen few piranhas but haven't get shot by MG so far... playing HGR anni... so not sniping and not fast... shrug.

Nascar is killing me pretty often though just can't keep up with rest of the team. and get jumped by 2-6 mediums & heavies pretty fast.

[Andrewlik]

As a piranha pilot, my biggest advice is to ACTUALLY SHOOT ME instead of panicking, accepting that you are dead and instead trying to get one last alpha in the assault that's pullling back around the corner that distracted you

[martian]

Nebuchednezzar, on 30 November 2022 - 01:12 PM, said:

Well boys and girls. MWO has been fun over the years but has become completely pointless to play anymore because of the light mechs.

Nebuchednezzar, on 30 November 2022 - 01:12 PM, said:

In the last 3 weeks of play, EVERY match is utterly dominated by light mech machine gunners, Crael's with the same loadout and blinding RAC fire to which you're torn apart before you can even rotate away and move to get out of fire to survive.

In your previous paragraph you named the light 'Mechs as the greatest problem ... and now you are naming one heavy 'Mech - the Crusader too. "Crael" has the effective range of 270 metres when using SRMs and mere 130 metres when using its machine guns. It is also a quite big and not especially agile 'Mech.

Also, RACS are typically carried by heavy and assault 'Mechs too. I do not see too many light 'Mechs with RACs in the game.

Nebuchednezzar, on 30 November 2022 - 01:12 PM, said:

My last match, 6 light mechs with Flamers and MG along with an mg crael just walked through 12 mechs in under 4 minutes.12 - 0 stomp and it's become the norm.

1) What were you doing? Light 'Mechs are fragile (definitely in comparison with heavy and assault 'Mechs) and their flamers and machine guns have extremely short range (mere 90 metres for flamer and not much better 130 metres for machine gun).

2) In my games I do not see groups of six flamers-armed light 'Mechs dominating the battlefield.

Could you post some of your video showing such flamer-dominating groups?

Nebuchednezzar, on 30 November 2022 - 01:12 PM, said:

So it's with a sad heart I say goodbye to MWO ...

Enjoy your next game, whatever it is.

Nebuchednezzar, on 30 November 2022 - 01:12 PM, said:

... and await the next Non Piranha based Mechwarrior based game with hopes that it will be more balanced for game play.

With "more balanced for game play", do you mean "skewed towards heavy and assault 'Mechs that can go through the game without caring about any other light(er) 'Mechs"?

Because I would say that in the MWO history we can find some periods when the game balance was much worse than it is now.

Nebuchednezzar, on 30 November 2022 - 01:12 PM, said:

Between MG's and Armor quirks, light mechs rule the battlefield.

Thanks for the good laugh.

Light 'Mechs are the 'Mechs with the worst Win / Loss ratio, with the worst Kill / Death ratio and with the worst average Match Score.

Nebuchednezzar, on 30 November 2022 - 01:12 PM, said:

As a FASA player and contributor to Tech Readouts 3055 and 3050 ...

Your past 30 years old would-be glories from a different game mean nothing here.

Nebuchednezzar, on 30 November 2022 - 01:12 PM, said:

... as well as a long standing fan of Battletech, ....

MechWarrior Online is not the simulation of the tabletop BattleTech game.

MechWarrior Online is the first person shooter set in the BattleTech universe.

Nebuchednezzar, on 30 November 2022 - 01:12 PM, said:

MWO has become the WORST Battletech based game out there.

Thanks for your personal opinion.

Surprisingly, there are other people who enjoy MWO.

Nebuchednezzar, on 30 November 2022 - 01:12 PM, said:

It USED to be very well done and was an Improvement on the Beta Mechwarrior game that EA put out but never completed but has now become a complete mockery of how it was intended to play.

And how was MWO intended to be played?

I am asking because one of the first light 'Mechs in MWO was the Jenner - dangerous light 'Mech armed with 4-6 lasers and SRMs. Actually, it was one of the original Founders' Four 'Mechs.

Nebuchednezzar, on 30 November 2022 - 01:12 PM, said:

If Piranha games was actually listening, I would say nerf armor quirks on light mechs (the % affect it has on them as it's far too high) restrict ROF and MG's on light mechs.

In other words, you wish to see light 'Mechs disarmed and even less protected than they are now.

Do you think that many MWO players would buy and play such castrated light 'Mechs?

Nebuchednezzar, on 30 November 2022 - 01:12 PM, said:

They're light mechs and meant for recon, flanking, harassing ...

... and combat. Because both games - BattleTech and MWO - are about the 'Mech combat.

No matter how you call it, many light 'Mechs are designed to fight other 'Mechs:

"The Jenner was designed as a close-range fighter." Straight from the Technical Readout.

"The Panther was designed as a fire support vehicle ..." Again, straight from the Technical Readout.

Nebuchednezzar, on 30 November 2022 - 01:12 PM, said:

... and not run circles around assault mechs and destroy them

This is exactly what light 'Mechs do in BattleTech in order to generate a high target modifier, so they are as difficult target as possible for enemy 'Mech.

And of course, light 'Mechs are often moving the full speed in MWO, because a slow or immobile light 'Mech is often a dead 'Mech in MWO.

Nebuchednezzar, on 30 November 2022 - 01:12 PM, said:

because the assault mech simply can't do enough damage fast enough to kill them for most players.

The Daishi has 50 tons of pod space that can be used for lasers, Clan ER PPCs, Gauss Rifles, Autocannons and other weapons. It can unload a huge alpha strike that many light, medium, heavy and some other assault 'Mechs can only dream about.

Nebuchednezzar, on 30 November 2022 - 01:12 PM, said:

But we all know that Piranha games only listens to the sound of the mech pack sales and in game purchases of MC's and such so this will fall on their deaf ears.

Yeah, sure.

That's why the last new light 'Mech was the Incubus from September 2018.

After the Incubus came the Champion (heavy), the Vapor Eagle (medium), the Charger (assault), the Hatamoto-Chi (assault), the Warhammer IIC (assault), the Corsair (assault), the Marauder II (assault), the Rifleman IIC (heavy) and the Dervish (medium).

Obviously, PGI has preferred heavy and assault 'Mechs.

Nebuchednezzar, on 30 November 2022 - 01:12 PM, said:

On Tabletop, a single AC 20 hit on a light mech was a crippling blow or death blow depending on where you hit it. In MWO they can take Multiple UAC20 hits and keep on running. The FP rating of a light mech should never be able rival that of a heavy mech and they do.

MechWarrior Online is not the simulation of the tabletop BattleTech game.

MechWarrior Online is the first person shooter set in the BattleTech universe.

All weight classes must be viable - this includes light 'Mechs too. Otherwise nobody would buy them and nobody would play them.

Nebuchednezzar, on 30 November 2022 - 01:12 PM, said:

I played this with great enthusiasm when it was first released Pre-Steam days and have been with it until now. Now there is no joy in the game anymore just like Official Ark Survival servers that have been dominated and foundation spammed over the entire map to make it impossible for new players to the server to enjoy the game.

Do you realize that any new MWO player can buy any type of 'Mech of any weight class and play it on any map any time?

Nebuchednezzar, on 30 November 2022 - 01:12 PM, said:

Time for this iteration of MWO to go the way of the Dodo and with luck, something better will rise from the ashes via another game publisher with a fresh perspective on the game, it's franchise and the player Community.

With a "with a fresh perspective on the game", do you mean "a game where light 'Mechs are just a harmless, slow and fragile targets for heavy and assault 'Mechs"?

Good luck.

[Curccu]

Nebuchednezzar, on 30 November 2022 - 01:12 PM, said:

In the last 3 weeks of play, EVERY match is utterly dominated by light mech machine gunners, Crael's with the same loadout and blinding RAC fire to which you're torn apart before you can even rotate away and move to get out of fire to survive.

Played for < 20 games and didn't see any light packs or even machinegun lights, only Crael I saw was my own which I bought... fun kamikaze mech.

[Weeny Machine]

Nebuchednezzar, on 30 November 2022 - 01:12 PM, said:

In the last 3 weeks of play, EVERY match is utterly dominated by light mech machine gunners, Crael's with the same loadout and blinding RAC fire to which you're torn apart before you can even rotate away and move to get out of fire to survive.

So, what changes did lights get that suddenly "EVERY match is utterly dominated by light mech machine gunners". Pray, tell us...

And if there was no change, why do you think they dominate now and why do I see neither wolfpacks nor overly many lights with a myriad of machine guns? I mean, when EVERY match is dominated by them...well, I surly should see them and Curccu obviously doesn't neither.

Crael...I see one nearly every game but hey that's true for Marauder IICs too - and usually not just one

Edited by Weeny Machine, 01 December 2022 - 02:07 PM.

[ThreeStooges]

Nebuchednezzar, on 01 December 2022 - 06:49 AM, said:

No, very poor twist and pitch yaw on most assaults (as in either too slow to track the light or can't pitch low enough to reach them when they face plant up your ***) and Again, no light should be able to tank that much damage.

My Summoner has 76 pinpoint ( 2 heavy large and 4 heavy medium) and I have hit many light mechs dead front CT, no splash, full burn and it doesn't always penetrate the armor let alone kill the mech and the same happens when I hit the R or L torso which should rip it off.

I have even directly targeted legs on the 20T mechs and 76 points to a leg full burn should remove it and it doesn't. I don't flinch when I get fired on and make my shot before twisting away.

I have a King Crab with 2 AC20 and 4 Snubs R/L side (fires 1 AC 20 and 2 snubs to prevent ghost heat) and when you hit a light mech with that it should halve the mech when you hit the same torso on it at the very least and it doesn't.

If you leave me uncontested at range with a guass rifle in a stealth mech I will blow out your cockpit so it's not my aim.

I don't know where to even start. As a light pilot with only a 6mb/second isp due to verizion being total crap, Even I can hit lights in the atlas boar's head using just a 6xml ac20 lfe 400 load out. Which I just got barley three days ago since it was on sale.

That load out is a meager 50 alpha. Only 30 while I await the ac 20 cd. I have no problems shooting the legs off lights or the sts off larger mechs.

As for your goldly aim claim i'll hapilly prive match you,record it and I'll play my locust standing in the open on canyon network so you have a clear life of fire. Use any guass mech build and combo you want. i'll give you a full fifteen minutes to cockpit my locust and then post the video of it to youtube and here. It'll be interesting to see just how many times you cockpit my locust with a guass.,dual guass,heavy guass or double hgr build. Let me guess, a goldy warrior like you will bring out the fnr-5g or which ever one has ecm dual heavy guass. Don't be scared of my lct 1e(c) but bring your brown pants any way incase I move.

Or I might up my meta game with the pb and 4x er smls to meta up your rear and leave you crying mechs op. Might even go super lct with that 3s lrm 5 i rock and really give you fear of the five.

[Meep Meep]

Given how easy it is to record a game nowadays why don't we see any videos of the supposed Light Mech Armageddon™ by those that complain about it? If light mechs are so op then why don't they hop in one and show us the gameplay footage of them eating assaults like cheap Halloween candy?

Edited by Meep Meep, 01 December 2022 - 04:14 PM.

[Darian DelFord]

Meep Meep, on 01 December 2022 - 04:14 PM, said:

Given how easy it is to record a game nowadays why don't we see any videos of the supposed Light Mech Armageddon™ by those that complain about it? If light mechs are so op then why don't they hop in one and show us the gameplay footage of them eating assaults like cheap Halloween candy?

Ask and ye shall recieve

Edited by Darian DelFord, 01 December 2022 - 06:32 PM.

[Meep Meep]

Just to nitpick your fit why meds instead of er meds? After the buffs it has the same heat profile with slightly lower dps. Being able to sit back around 420ish meters for you full alpha and ~700m for half alpha plays waaay better with this mech. You got hosed because you were too close and that laser vomit alpha was able to track you easier. But yeah this is the outcome I see for most lights that try to brawl with the boys.

[Darian DelFord]

Meep Meep, on 01 December 2022 - 06:53 PM, said:

Just to nitpick your fit why meds instead of er meds? After the buffs it has the same heat profile with slightly lower dps. Being able to sit back around 420ish meters for you full alpha and ~700m for half alpha plays waaay better with this mech. You got hosed because you were too close and that laser vomit alpha was able to track you easier. But yeah this is the outcome I see for most lights that try to brawl with the boys.

Despite what the mech lab says, its not the same heat. 5 ER Meds has approximately 6% more heat when fired. If I remember correctly a little longer burn time to. (I could be wrong on that one though, can't remember).

I get more alphas with 5 reg vs 5 ER's. However I do play both, just depends on what types of groups I get dropped into.

[Meep Meep]

I meant heat profile. Meds have less heat when fired but fire faster so the longer rof of er meds balances it out. But yes if you are dropping with premades and have reliable backup then the dps of meds is certainly helpful. I'm a pure lone wolf out to get in the rears of the enemy and take off torsos or get their ct red enough to be a one touch to either me or whoever gets past their frontal armor. You would be surprised at the amount of players that skimp on rear armor and don't get the structure nodes. Plus I get the benefit of being far outside the sensor range of even boosted and quirked mechs if I stay outside of 350~400m so its effectively stealth armor without any of the drawbacks. With the proper backdrop I've stood out in the open and just plinked away and they can't see me as long as I don't shoot them when they are looking my way. I really need to start recording that stuff as its hilariously funny when they get obviously frustrated.

[Knownswift]

I personally find the shorter duration lasers easier to work around, especially considering the mech itself excels at moving between shoots and dies when it isn't holding the sprint button.

If you've played craploads of the 17 you're already used to close.

That said I don't play the 20 that often, 5 energy is straight up anemic in this environment even with ECM.

[Pika]

Curccu, on 01 December 2022 - 07:16 AM, said:

Not my XP when piloting assaults, but I have 1 shotted a lot of lights with assault mechs... specially Piranhas.
What is that much? This 76? Yeah lights cannot and will not tank that much to single component.. well few actually might but in general they don't.


Either your internet connection is unstable or you miss the shot.


it shouldn't and it doesn't it's only 40 damage and with zero skills and quirks 30 tonner can take that hit to sidetorso and keep that sidetorso, 28 armor and 14 structure, for 30 tonners without skilltree.

Fle-17 has total 46 hitpoints with skilltree in sidetorsos.
So no Lights mechs do not lose sidetorso with 40 damage not even piranha.



Vidz plz, you doing those huge alphas to light and they not losing stuff or those headshots... both are nice.


I'll leave Darians video from this same thread here to show what happens when that summoner alpha actually hits 20 tonner.

Oof~ I don't think that's a summoner...

A full alpha to the face from a Hunchi 2C. Lucky it didn't blow you out of your chair, too. Nasty.

At the end of the day though, this is a game where 4 weight classes of 'mechs need to be viable.

I'm a dedicated assault pilot and maxed out my DireWolf 'Mechs as soon as they were released and still play them to this day more than any other 'Mech and I think for the most part lights are fine.

Sure there are a few edge cases like Urbies taking as much damage as an atlas due to all their quirks and super fast engines (Or at least when I last played it felt like it). But at the same time, if the Urby couldn't do that... would anyone buy it or use it outside of the meme?

Of course not. I don't pilot lights. They are my natural enemy and predator and of course I get annoyed when my team ditches me and a light has a lovely snack on my rear armour... but I don't think they need a nerf. That's their job.

Maybe the odd chassis here and there needs it's structure tweaked, but they absolutely do not need to have their life made harder.

Edited by Pika, 02 December 2022 - 05:15 AM.

[Curccu]

Pika, on 02 December 2022 - 05:09 AM, said:

Oof~ I don't think that's a summoner...

Well it's possible and somewhat even functional build so if OP want to play that he can but for me in that post it wasn't really relevant what mech shoots that alpha but what kind and how huge alpha it is.

[Meep Meep]

Knownswift, on 02 December 2022 - 01:22 AM, said:

That said I don't play the 20 that often, 5 energy is straight up anemic in this environment even with ECM.

25 points at 421m and ~12 points at 650-700m is more than enough to ream out rear armor and feast on the structure. The entire playstyle for the 20 is sneaky snek backstabbing from ecm outside their sensor range in lone wolf fashion since wolf packing just gives away your position. The other fleas do much better as pack animals and are enjoyable in that role but I'm always dropping solo so the 20 it is for me. It's a higher skill floor to make it work especially when you are facing a bunch of tryhards but I enjoy the challenge.

[CFC Conky]

@OP,

Please drive a light mech in the majority of your matches for at least a month, then report back on how it went.

But if you decide to leave the game, can I have your stuff?

Good hunting,
CFC Conky