629 replies to this topic

[Phaelan Ward]

I'm currently trying to pilot Lights or fast Mediums (like the Viper). Truth be told, they "seem" OP if you're solo in a slow heavy or Assault. I soloed more than one Assault in my Viper or a Cheetah. But that only works when there's no Murderdeathball. You need your Team to create opportunities for you, or you are screwed. Simple as that. As soon as there are more than two people shooting you, you better run. Fast.

[pbiggz]

MrMadguy, on 20 December 2021 - 10:52 PM, said:

Should we count matches, where guys are just AFK?

Irrelevant.

Assaults have the highest WLR/AMS of all classes. Lights have the lowest. Those are actual statistics, not a fiction.

Fiction is all you have presented here, you're doing it on purpose. That makes you a liar.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Ooo, ooo, can I play too????



Here's a screenshot! Clearly our team only won because of the 59 damage done by that super overpowered Kit Fox. And thank goodness too, because the 89 damage done by that enemy Mist Lynx darn near turned the tide on us!

Obviously, this screen shot is proof that the Highlander 733P is the supreme power in the universe and should be used in every quick play match.

That, or I'm just posting a screenshot and making s**t up. Yeah, we'll go with that one.

[Der Geisterbaer]

MrMadguy, on 20 December 2021 - 10:52 PM, said:

Should we count matches, where guys are just AFK?

You certainly should take some lessons about how to make unbiased statistics. It's already established that you are selectively choosing your data points and then perform selective reading of said data points in order to "prove" your opinion. Now you want to exclude data points that contradict your view (interestingly enough both data points shown here seem to involve the same Kit-Fox pilot, or am I reading that wrong?).
You are deliberately committing systematic errors by introducing sampling bias on various levels and expect people to trust your conclusions ... That's uneducated at best and intellectually dishonest at worst. Given your history on the matter it would appear that intellectual dishonesty is the liklier thing there.

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 22 December 2021 - 08:51 AM.

[martian]

ScrapIron Prime, on 21 December 2021 - 06:39 AM, said:

Ooo, ooo, can I play too????



Here's a screenshot! Clearly our team only won because of the 59 damage done by that super overpowered Kit Fox. And thank goodness too, because the 89 damage done by that enemy Mist Lynx darn near turned the tide on us!

Obviously, this screen shot is proof that the Highlander 733P is the supreme power in the universe and should be used in every quick play match.

That, or I'm just posting a screenshot and making s**t up. Yeah, we'll go with that one.

I am confused: There is a guy who says that Assault 'Mechs suck, are weak and underpowered: Who Still Use Ancient Relic Called A Assault?

So what to believe?

[ApolloKaras]

martian, on 21 December 2021 - 07:56 AM, said:

I am confused: There is a guy who says that Assault 'Mechs suck, are weak and underpowered: Who Still Use Ancient Relic Called A Assault?

So what to believe?

There are so many things to complain about... and this is what they go with lol.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

martian, on 21 December 2021 - 07:56 AM, said:

I am confused: There is a guy who says that Assault 'Mechs suck, are weak and underpowered: Who Still Use Ancient Relic Called A Assault?

So what to believe?

well, to play the devil's advocate: in that screenshot, there are 2 assaults (an atlas plus a kingrab) who do quite horribly, so.. ^^
assaults = utter weaksauce, confirmed.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 21 December 2021 - 08:10 AM, said:

well, to play the devil's advocate: in that screenshot, there are 2 assaults (an atlas plus a kingrab) who do quite horribly, so.. ^^

And here I thought that we're supposed to ignore data points where players were "clearly" afk for most if not the entire match ... oh wait.

[Verilligo]

MrMadguy, on 20 December 2021 - 08:08 PM, said:

P.S. This Kit Fox had 6xC-SRM6, i.e. 72 Alpha dmg and was literally two-shotting Assaults, including me. Not OP at all.

I've tried this build. If you can actually manage to make it work, you deserve the results. It should also be mentioned that those are non-Artemis SRMs, so the 72 alpha requires perfect range in order to keep the spread from blowing all over everything... which it will do anyway, so you can generally assume at best a 55-60 point alpha of meaningful damage.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

Verilligo, on 21 December 2021 - 09:39 AM, said:

so you can generally assume at best a 55-60 point alpha of meaningful damage.

yeah, if that..
I ran that build regulary in fw, and it's a blast. literally. so much fun and delivers a lot of dmg for 30t.
the thing is: its damage to EVERYWHERE, on a slow-a@s-yet-big light mech with tinfoil-armor.
if that thing ever gets to point-blank range, which is needed for a reliable killshot, then the opposition is doing something (many things actually) wrong.

now, do we blame a lightmech-pilot with guts to run that in QP, or do we blame a blind opposition..?
tough call*


*not really

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 21 December 2021 - 10:28 AM.

[pbiggz]

At this point madguy makes 1 content-free post after completely ignoring a page of withering criticism, then proceeds to wait for us to flood a page with criticism before posting another 1 content-free post where he explicitly lies about something.

So lets buck this little trend here.


@mrmadguy; address our criticisms, directly. We are listening. If you don't, then you really are just lying.

[Maj Destruction]

Interesting thread. I might as well throw a little fuel on the fire. When I first started a few weeks ago, I favored heavies and assaults (still like running assaults, though I know that's supposedly bad ju-ju for beginners). I got jumped a few times by lights.....let me tell you, getting picked off by something you can't even see, much less shoot at, that runs faster than your mech can even turn, is absolutely infuriating, and absolutely fun-killing.

But it didn't happen often, even with my poor positioning and general cluelessness. My observation (mostly from watching the lights, but also from trying them myself a few times) is that actually getting into that close-up kill position is a real challenge for the lights. It's the sort of thing that probably won't happen often, it's just really annoying when it does. I believe this is why some folks might get the idea that lights are too advantaged in this area. It's easy to focus on these "unfun" defeats, while ignoring all the other times lights get slaughtered.

Lately I have been focusing more on keeping up with my team and not wandering off or getting left behind. I have had several instances where a light started harassing me, only to get run off or blown up by my teammates. I've also managed a couple of kills by unlocking my arms and just aiming more or less blindly as low as possible and in the general direction I last saw the light. That feels good.

There have also been a few times where I let myself get too far from the team, and a light tried to pick me off, but I was able to run back towards my teammates (more or less ignoring the light), forcing the light to egress.

I'd like to play with a Flea build or something similar at some point, but my skills are not up to it yet (I usually die quickly, or just get abysmally low damage). I'd say if a light driver has the skills to make it work, they deserve whatever points they can get.

Matt

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

Maj Destruction, on 21 December 2021 - 11:53 PM, said:

Interesting thread. I might as well throw a little fuel on the fire. When I first started a few weeks ago, I favored heavies and assaults (still like running assaults, though I know that's supposedly bad ju-ju for beginners). I got jumped a few times by lights.....let me tell you, getting picked off by something you can't even see, much less shoot at, that runs faster than your mech can even turn, is absolutely infuriating, and absolutely fun-killing.

But it didn't happen often, even with my poor positioning and general cluelessness. My observation (mostly from watching the lights, but also from trying them myself a few times) is that actually getting into that close-up kill position is a real challenge for the lights. It's the sort of thing that probably won't happen often, it's just really annoying when it does. I believe this is why some folks might get the idea that lights are too advantaged in this area. It's easy to focus on these "unfun" defeats, while ignoring all the other times lights get slaughtered.

Lately I have been focusing more on keeping up with my team and not wandering off or getting left behind. I have had several instances where a light started harassing me, only to get run off or blown up by my teammates. I've also managed a couple of kills by unlocking my arms and just aiming more or less blindly as low as possible and in the general direction I last saw the light. That feels good.

There have also been a few times where I let myself get too far from the team, and a light tried to pick me off, but I was able to run back towards my teammates (more or less ignoring the light), forcing the light to egress.

I'd like to play with a Flea build or something similar at some point, but my skills are not up to it yet (I usually die quickly, or just get abysmally low damage). I'd say if a light driver has the skills to make it work, they deserve whatever points they can get.

Matt

good points.
I'd encourage you to run lights yourselfs, too, still. you might feel you're too fresh to do it or pull off, but the truth is that you'll probably have the easiest time with a light while you're still in T5/4, as your opposition is also still that level;
so pragmatically speaking, now you have the most room for errors in movement, the least skilled pilots that oneshot you and so on - it's the best time to learn the basics.
you'll need them later
speaking from "oldtimer" experience, I remember my first mech being a missile-locust.. so yeah; LOTS of dying, abysmal damage and so on. but I learned the maps thx to a light getting around, I learned a lot about who to attack and when and most importantly, when&who NOT to (the hard way^^).

so, grab a light and give it a try. they're fast&fragile, but fun
oh, and I highly suggest to NOT run stealth; don't get me wrong, it's good when you know what you're doing, but there's so much stuff to learn.. leave that for later.
most importantly: have fun

[DaZur]

Maj Destruction, on 21 December 2021 - 11:53 PM, said:

Matt

There's a fair amount of new players who come in with typical "FPS shooter" backgrounds who approach MWO with the same mentality... "Biggest guns =/=" best odds. They struggle with the concept of weight classes, varying mobility limitations etc...

I have the opinion that the light versus assault hate manifests from this and similar correlative issues.

The fact that you recognized the Assaults advantages and disadvantages and adjusted your play style based on your experiences instead of having a hissy-fit and denouncing light mechs speaks volumes... kudos!

[martian]

Maj Destruction, on 21 December 2021 - 11:53 PM, said:

I've also managed a couple of kills by unlocking my arms and just aiming more or less blindly as low as possible and in the general direction I last saw the light. That feels good.

Congrats! You are willing to learn something new.

Some people in this very thread still do not understand the simple fact that Assault 'Mech can hit a light 'Mech right in front of it, i.e. that Assault 'Mech can successfully defend himself against a light 'Mech.

[Kriegson]

I can see where the sentiment comes from. Light mechs are faster, smaller, often stealth, doing surprising amounts of damage when backstabbing to someone who thinks they're the incarnation of death in their 100 ton deathmachine.

My suggestion would be; Try a light then. See how it goes.

Edited by Kriegson, 22 December 2021 - 10:36 AM.

[martian]

Kriegson, on 22 December 2021 - 10:35 AM, said:

My suggestion would be; Try a light then. See how it goes.

Usually those people do not do that. Sometimes they have dropped in light 'Mechs in just a few games during their entire career in MWO.

[Michael Abt]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 22 December 2021 - 04:30 AM, said:

(...)

Heavy / assault pilots trying out a light usually have to learn that they have to get out of their usual routines and mindset, and instead need to embrace the speed and agility of a light.

My prime example to that is back paddling. For heavies / assaults it may be a viable option to move backwards, tanking damage, dealing big damage themself until they reach cover again.

From my experience moving backwards as a light is usually a very bad choice. You neither have the firepower to take out the threat, nor do you have the armor to tank it out. You just made yourself a sitting duck, and you will probably die.

Spoiler

Other option: Just put the pedal to the metal and run zick zack past that threat, using your speed and agility.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

Michael Abt, on 22 December 2021 - 11:30 AM, said:

Heavy / assault pilots trying out a light usually have to learn that they have to get out of their usual routines and mindset, and instead need to embrace the speed and agility of a light.

My prime example to that is back paddling. For heavies / assaults it may be a viable option to move backwards, tanking damage, dealing big damage themself until they reach cover again.

From my experience moving backwards as a light is usually a very bad choice. You neither have the firepower to take out the threat, nor do you have the armor to tank it out. You just made yourself a sitting duck, and you will probably die.

Spoiler

Other option: Just put the pedal to the metal and run zick zack past that threat, using your speed and agility.

all good points - and all the more reason to do that fresh in your mwo-career when certain habits aren't "hardcoded in", yet, right? ;-)

[DaZur]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 22 December 2021 - 12:42 PM, said:

all good points - and all the more reason to do that fresh in your mwo-career when certain habits aren't "hardcoded in", yet, right? ;-)

9+ years I've been playing...

And I JUST started piloting lights (and light mediums). I've taken a beating learning how to pilot them but now they're my most proleptic class...

Old dogs DO learn new tricks apparently!