629 replies to this topic

[ScrapIron Prime]

I would not have expected the Firestarter. I wonder which variant(s).

[Curccu]

ScrapIron Prime, on 26 December 2021 - 03:08 PM, said:

I would not have expected the Firestarter. I wonder which variant(s).

Gotta admit that didn't watch but I'd guess A variant with 3xLPPC and small lazors dunno if other stuff was used.

[Maddermax]

Two things about the comp side of things. Firstly, all matches are conquest, which means you need fast mechs - thus why the black lanner and Phoenix hawk are more popular than slower, more tanky mediums.

The firestarter is probably popular because it’s a light with JJ who can tank a couple of hits - you can’t rely on small size alone to avoid fire when everyone has very good aim. Piranhas don’t turn fast enough to be reliably safe, and can die in a single well placed shot.

I’m sure someone who does comp can discuss the reasons with a bit more insight.

[FupDup]

Maddermax, on 26 December 2021 - 04:03 PM, said:

Two things about the comp side of things. Firstly, all matches are conquest, which means you need fast mechs - thus why the black lanner and Phoenix hawk are more popular than slower, more tanky mediums.

The firestarter is probably popular because it’s a light with JJ who can tank a couple of hits - you can’t rely on small size alone to avoid fire when everyone has very good aim. Piranhas don’t turn fast enough to be reliably safe, and can die in a single well placed shot.

I’m sure someone who does comp can discuss the reasons with a bit more insight.

Even if they specifically wanted speed, I still don't know why they'd pick the Lanner over one of the lighter mediums (like Pixies) considering stuff like tonnage limits that they usually have.

[Brauer]

FupDup, on 26 December 2021 - 04:11 PM, said:

Even if they specifically wanted speed, I still don't know why they'd pick the Lanner over one of the lighter mediums (like Pixies) considering stuff like tonnage limits that they usually have.

The Blanner is an excellent wolfpack mech and absolutely demolishes lights due to its high dps. It does very well in comp and QP.

The FS9s were often mpl/ersl or LPPC/ersl, I bet some 8spl FS9's were brought as well.

Edited by Brauer, 28 December 2021 - 11:17 AM.

[1453 R]

In a fight between a red-lasers Black Lanner and the most typical compy Pixhawk (i.e. the hex-MPL skirmisher) and assuming two properly competent pilots, I'd put my money on the Black Lanner basically every time. A lot of people deeply underestimate that 'Mech because fat oversized engine, but I have yet to really find or fly a better dagger fighter. Especially in matches where you know your enemies won't drop shots; the Lanner has enough bulk to it to force an engagement, where lighter 'Mechs often simply don't.

[Remington1911]

Look at what I run, I do play LT mechs, and think I do ok enough for a noob. I love the Pirate Bane little thing is fast as hell, has a mess of MG's and a couple lasers to be a pest after those run dry. Also like my flea, but don't play it often, that deadly fish is also fun with a mess of MG's.

So very wrong I do play them and do understand them, sorry reading is so hard for some people.

What I do see an issue is the ability to run in with any of the smaller LT's, just got a mist lynx (i think) and am coming to terms with it.....but that ability to run in on two or three MED, HVY or ASSLT,s and blow a leg off, or at least strip armor to the red and run away while laughing at the other team trying to hit you and hitting each other is great fun....I know I have done it, only difference is I feel dirty by doing it, I feel like I am taking advantage of a broken system, where most of you just love the lop sided matchups.

The stats posted above mean NOTHING. Look at the game play. How Many LT's do you usually see in a game, a lance, perhaps 6......the rest of the team is of heavy mechs so naturally the units most represented are going to have more deaths....duh.

But keep the insults coming, it makes little people feel better about themselves.

They are broken even a blind man on a flying horse can see that.

[pattonesque]

Remington1911, on 28 December 2021 - 05:47 AM, said:

The stats posted above mean NOTHING. Look at the game play. How Many LT's do you usually see in a game, a lance, perhaps 6......the rest of the team is of heavy mechs so naturally the units most represented are going to have more deaths....duh.

Lights being the lowest-scoring, lowest-winning, and least-played class in the game means less than your anecdotes?

[dario03]

Remington1911, on 28 December 2021 - 05:47 AM, said:

Look at what I run, I do play LT mechs, and think I do ok enough for a noob. I love the Pirate Bane little thing is fast as hell, has a mess of MG's and a couple lasers to be a pest after those run dry. Also like my flea, but don't play it often, that deadly fish is also fun with a mess of MG's.

So very wrong I do play them and do understand them, sorry reading is so hard for some people.

What I do see an issue is the ability to run in with any of the smaller LT's, just got a mist lynx (i think) and am coming to terms with it.....but that ability to run in on two or three MED, HVY or ASSLT,s and blow a leg off, or at least strip armor to the red and run away while laughing at the other team trying to hit you and hitting each other is great fun....I know I have done it, only difference is I feel dirty by doing it, I feel like I am taking advantage of a broken system, where most of you just love the lop sided matchups.

The stats posted above mean NOTHING. Look at the game play. How Many LT's do you usually see in a game, a lance, perhaps 6......the rest of the team is of heavy mechs so naturally the units most represented are going to have more deaths....duh.

But keep the insults coming, it makes little people feel better about themselves.

They are broken even a blind man on a flying horse can see that.

Lights are typically the least used class in qp. And are you talking about the graph showing qp results on the last page? That was a k/d ratio, its not just showing total deaths.

[martian]

Remington1911, on 28 December 2021 - 05:47 AM, said:

...
The stats posted above mean NOTHING. Look at the game play.

Your personal game experiences are one thing - the game-wide statistics are another.

Remington1911, on 28 December 2021 - 05:47 AM, said:

But keep the insults coming, it makes little people feel better about themselves.

Opposing views are not "insults".

[Der Geisterbaer]

Remington1911 said:

Look at what I run, I do play LT mechs,

Which is slightly better than what others do - because they play Lights little if at all. Unfortunately you playing Lights doesn't make your claims inherently better or "more correct".

Remington1911 said:

and think I do ok enough for a noob.

I'd say that after roughly a year of playing one should not be considered to be a "noob" any more.

As far as you doing "ok enough"? After looking at the numbers I guess neither you nor me are anything but mediocre at best and at least I know for myself that I won't ever get truly better at this game simply because I do know all of my personal limitations (some voluntary some not) that others will never be fully aware of. So I'm quite comfortable with where I find myself in the leaderboards ... but I digress.

Remington1911 said:

I love the Pirate Bane little thing is fast as hell, has a mess of MG's and a couple lasers to be a pest after those run dry.

You consider 2 machine guns "a mess of MGs"? What are the 4 on a Locust 1-V then? Or the 12 on a PIR-1? Wait don't answer that ... you'll only invoke the PIR-1 as the bogeyman.

Remington1911 said:

Also like my flea, but don't play it often, that deadly fish is also fun with a mess of MG's.

Ignoring the slight cognitive dissonance there I'll have to ask you this: What are your actual stats with the "deadly (machine gun) fish"? Go to https://mwomercs.com...stats?type=mech and look for the numbers on your PIRANHA PIR-1 and then show them here.
I'm a bit curious if your stats on that mech really are that much out of line when compared to your overall performance to warrant the idea that there's something "broken" with Lights in general and machine gun carrying ones in particular.

Remington1911 said:

So very wrong

I can't remember anyone accusing you in particular of not playing them. Those are accusations usally reserved for the likes of MrMadguy or Mechagome (or whatever name he's using now) ... So you're now strawmanning others with the accusation of having strawmanned you.

Remington1911 said:

I do play them

The former ...

Remington1911 said:

and do understand them,

... doesn't logically lead to the latter and while the former is undeniable the latter is only a claim of yours.

Remington1911 said:

sorry reading is so hard for some people.

You'd be better off not throwing stones there.

Remington1911 said:

What I do see an issue is the ability to run in with any of the smaller LT's, just got a mist lynx (i think) and am coming to terms with it.....but that ability to run in on two or three MED, HVY or ASSLT,s and blow a leg off, or at least strip armor to the red and run away while laughing at the other team trying to hit you and hitting each other is great fun....

So you're suggesting that because on occasion several players either ignore you doing that or simply are bad at shooting at you there must be some unbalanced thing at play (and yes I'm deliberately entering black and white fallacy territory in this question)?

Okay, so challenge time: Take your preferred Light mech with a larger number of machine guns and record 20 consecutive matches where you run into a group of 2+ heavy and assault mechs where you blow off at least one leg and / or strip armor into red and then running away laughing (with a more or less intact mech of your own). Upload the videos of you doing that and then we'll talk about what happened.

Remington1911 said:

I know I have done it,

The question is: How often does it actually happen? In terms of "statistical significance"

Remington1911 said:

only difference is I feel dirty by doing it, I feel like I am taking advantage of a broken system,

So now it's something that starts out as a variation of the "no true scotsman" fallacy and then ...

Remington1911 said:

where most of you just love the lop sided matchups.

... goes straight into an insult by inferring moral depravity in others.

Remington1911 said:

The stats posted above mean NOTHING.

Wait what? The stats that clearly show that Light mechs are at the bottom of the food chain mean nothing? Are you going to prove that extraordinary claim with extraordinary proof in defiance of those graphs (where "Kill/Death ratio" is something other than "number of deaths")? I guess ...

Remington1911 said:

Look at the game play.

... not. Instead you're making yet another fallacious appeal and don't provide actual numbers but guestimates at best.

Remington1911 said:

How Many LT's do you usually see in a game, a lance, perhaps 6......

6 out of 24 mechs would translate to 25%. Even when ignoring the fact that the average percentage of Light usage that the game client shows is regularly far lower (where you also regularly see only 3 in total on both teams combined) ...

Remington1911 said:

the rest of the team is of heavy mechs so naturally the units most represented are going to have more deaths....duh.

... how would 25% of all mechs in a singular game become "the most represented" weight class and how would that lead to them having more deaths?
Sorry, but even your deliberately falsified math doesn't add up.

Remington1911 said:

But keep the insults coming, it makes little people feel better about themselves.

Again: You shouldn't accuse others of insulting you when you are the one who is throwing actual insults around and in addition to that tries to insult the intellect of others by randomly making up stuff.

Remington1911 said:

They are broken even a blind man on a flying horse can see that.

~yawn~

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 28 December 2021 - 09:50 AM.

[AnAnachronismAlive]

The same thing happened today, that happened yesterday ... only with different people. Oh boy, now and then life feels like a big circle joke - why should this forum be an exception? Remington and other folks assuming light mechs to be overpowered: you DO NOT have to bang your head against the wall over and over again, but you DO have a choice to become a better player in this game: yelling "Lights OP!!!" over and over again ain't the answer though.

If you find yourself in some kind of a dead-end, check on the various sources available (Check Twitch for Stimraug, Ash, MagicPainGlove or some other streamers - some of em even dedicated light players) to measure your play and potentially identify shortcomings / bad habits (most of us developed some over the time in MWO).

Especially on light mechs, success is often about identifying windows of opportunity and dictating the terms of engagements (be that as a solo or grouped dropper), else ye get will get eaten by a non-separated and map-aware opfor before ye been able to do much - if any - harm.

Edited by AnAnachronismAlive, 28 December 2021 - 07:58 AM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

"Sergeant, something shot at me, I want it nerfed immediately!"
"Yes, LT," the sergeant says, trying not to roll his eyes. "I'll get right on that."

[ThreeStooges]

AnAnachronismAlive, on 28 December 2021 - 07:48 AM, said:

Especially on light mechs, success is often about identifying windows of opportunity and dictating the terms of engagements (be that as a solo or grouped dropper), else ye get will get eaten by a non-separated and map-aware opfor before ye been able to do much - if any - harm.

Lights depend upon this to get damage/kills. I've been running a locust with a single flamer,3x srm 2s and one ton ammo for the hell of it. Hardly any skill on it yet. I've got other lights with a lot better builds but I get bored using my "best" builds for them.
As for being op in qp it's hard to be op when you get 11 randos that die with a 0-3 match while still having nine or ten minutes left. The passive randos just get out flanked and slaughtered. No light can win vs nine to one.

[YueFei]

Remington1911, on 28 December 2021 - 05:47 AM, said:

What I do see an issue is the ability to run in with any of the smaller LT's, just got a mist lynx (i think) and am coming to terms with it.....but that ability to run in on two or three MED, HVY or ASSLT,s and blow a leg off, or at least strip armor to the red and run away while laughing at the other team trying to hit you and hitting each other is great fun....I know I have done it, only difference is I feel dirty by doing it, I feel like I am taking advantage of a broken system, where most of you just love the lop sided matchups.

Nope. I don't even play Lights. This is easily confirmed by looking at my stats. If those enemies couldn't hit you, that's not a game balance problem, that's a Learn2Play problem on their part.

If you take a Bf-109 and turn fight a Spitfire and lose, that doesn't mean Spitfires are OP, it means you have no clue how to play to the strengths of your aircraft.

The only time something is OP is if it is so strong, that the only way to counter it is to use it yourself. Players far better than you or I have figured out how to counter Lights without using Lights themselves, and have freely given advice on how to do so, and laid out all the possible counterplay options. But instead of listening to them, you'd rather soothe your own ego when you lose to Lights by making excuses and concocting wild conspiracy theories, instead of identifying how you could defend yourself against them.

You probably think of yourself as the next Kai Allard-Liao, and that you have nothing new to learn because you already know it all.

Meanwhile, defending NBA champion Giannis Antetokounmpo doesn't sit on his laurels, complacent. Nah, he's working hard to add to his arsenal, expanding his skillset and trying to eliminate or minimize his weaknesses.

Know who we should be taking inspiration from? It ain't you, buddy.

[CFC Conky]

JGx DATA has posted a number of videos on YT playing light mechs and doing well.

I don't think this means light mechs are OP. Rather, it means a good player in a light mech or any mech for that matter, is a dangerous foe.

I don't know why this is so hard to understand.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Edited by CFC Conky, 28 December 2021 - 06:30 PM.

[Maddermax]

Remington1911 said:

1640699224[/url]' post='6439856']
Look at what I run, I do play LT mechs, and think I do ok enough for a noob. I love the Pirate Bane little thing is fast as hell, has a mess of MG's and a couple lasers to be a pest after those run dry. Also like my flea, but don't play it often, that deadly fish is also fun with a mess of MG's.

So very wrong I do play them and do understand them, sorry reading is so hard for some people.

What I do see an issue is the ability to run in with any of the smaller LT's, just got a mist lynx (i think) and am coming to terms with it.....but that ability to run in on two or three MED, HVY or ASSLT,s and blow a leg off, or at least strip armor to the red and run away while laughing at the other team trying to hit you and hitting each other is great fun....I know I have done it, only difference is I feel dirty by doing it, I feel like I am taking advantage of a broken system, where most of you just love the lop sided matchups.

The stats posted above mean NOTHING. Look at the game play. How Many LT's do you usually see in a game, a lance, perhaps 6......the rest of the team is of heavy mechs so naturally the units most represented are going to have more deaths....duh.

But keep the insults coming, it makes little people feel better about themselves.

They are broken even a blind man on a flying horse can see that.

Here’s the thing. You’re talking about your personal experiences, so let’s look at your personal experiences.

https://mwomercs.com...r=Remington1911

https://mwomercs.com...r=Remington1911

and it isn’t a diss on you, you’re doing fine, really. It’s about the comparison between lights and heavies for you.

Open them in seperate tabs, then look through season by season, comparing them both. Season after season, your K/D ratio is lower in lights than in assaults, your match score is lower in lights than assaults, and yet you think lights are unfair when you play them? Why are not assaults unfair when you play them, as they are statistically much stronger for you?

Lights prey on the separated and alone. They backstab, and run away. They find the damaged components and pick them off. Assaults just gloriously shoot people in the face, and grind straight through the strongest armour, because they can. That’s why people think lights are “unfair” - because they have to pick unfair fights to have any hope of doing well. Picking unfair fights is the entire reason to have light, fast skirmishers at all.

Edited by Maddermax, 28 December 2021 - 04:47 PM.

[PocketYoda]

YueFei, on 23 December 2021 - 03:04 PM, said:

Light mechs cannot stand toe-to-toe with Mediums and win. When I lose to a Light mech, it's not because he went toe to toe with me. It's because he was smart and out-ranged me or out-traded me, was unpredictable in his peeking angles, had impeccable timing on his jukes and evaded my shots, and ultimately wore me down. When that happens, I don't come here to cry about how OP Lights are, I give the enemy pilot kudos, I look at my own mistakes and deficiencies.

Some can, things like Adders, Kitfox's, Urbanmechs etc can easily stand toe to toe with mediums.. Hell i stood toe to toe with a warhammer yesterday and won in an Urbie.. It all depends on skill, luck and terrain.. When i say skill its of both pilots not just you..

Piranha and fleas can run straight up to most mediums under 55 tons and insta kill them..

Edited by Nomad Tech, 28 December 2021 - 05:41 PM.

[Blood Rose]

Nomad Tech, on 28 December 2021 - 05:39 PM, said:

Some can, things like Adders, Kitfox's, Urbanmechs etc can easily stand toe to toe with mediums.. Hell i stood toe to toe with a warhammer yesterday and won in an Urbie.. It all depends on skill, luck and terrain.. When i say skill its of both pilots not just you..

Piranha and fleas can run straight up to most mediums under 55 tons and insta kill them..

Please can you share whatever your on because I want some too.
Just so you know, light mechs have almost no armour and they tend to vanish if you shoot them. Lights regularly heavily damage Assault, Medium and Heavy grade mechs because the elite special forces pilots of those super awesome elite megadeath cool machines simply decide the Light is not worth their time and ignore it, then come crying to the forums when the Light simply opens them up after a minute or more of shooting.

[Maddermax]

Nomad Tech, on 28 December 2021 - 05:39 PM, said:

Piranha and fleas can run straight up to most mediums under 55 tons and insta kill them..

This is a lie.