71 replies to this topic

[MrMadguy]

I have 4xAMS 'Mech and...I don't feel any difference. It really feels like protection range is much smaller, than it should be. Tooltip says 190..275m, that is lot. But it really feels like AMS starting to fire, when missiles are just few meters from my 'Mech, so they hit me anyway. Are AMSes really so useless?

[Kanil]

I don't know if AMSes are practically useless, because I never use them, as I find them conceptually useless.

You make your own 'mech worse in order to prolong the lives of your teammates, and I think we've all know just how bad your teammates are at the game.

[martian]

MrMadguy, on 26 December 2021 - 12:42 AM, said:

I have 4xAMS 'Mech and...I don't feel any difference. It really feels like protection range is much smaller, than it should be. Tooltip says 190..275m, that is lot. But it really feels like AMS starting to fire, when missiles are just few meters from my 'Mech, so they hit me anyway. Are AMSes really so useless?

1. It is the "Event Time", so many players with bad gunnery skills are Lurming to earn their rewards. Thus, the number of LRMs in the air is higher than normal. Your AMS can not intercept them all.

2. Unlock both "AMS Overload" skill nodes. That should help.

[MrMadguy]

Kanil, on 26 December 2021 - 12:51 AM, said:

I don't know if AMSes are practically useless, because I never use them, as I find them conceptually useless.

You make your own 'mech worse in order to prolong the lives of your teammates, and I think we've all know just how bad your teammates are at the game.

Every player goes through several stages of 'Mech building:
1) Max alpha!
2) Heat management is important too
3) Survivability is great factor too
4) Learn to make mixed builds
5) Screw it! Games are about fun! Make troll builds to ruin game for other players

martian, on 26 December 2021 - 01:10 AM, said:

1. It is the "Event Time", so many players with bad gunnery skills are Lurming to earn their rewards. Thus, the number of LRMs in the air is higher than normal. Your AMS can not intercept them all.

2. Unlock both "AMS Overload" skill nodes. That should help.

Dunno. I just watch AMSes and their ammo consumption. In case of 275 meters protection range you would expect your AMSes to soak lots of enemy missiles. But it doesn't happen, like if their range would be just around 10m. And you would expect, that when not many missiles are fired at you (like LRM10) - they're all destroyed, cuz your 4xAMSes are 4x more effective, than just 1 AMS. So, even if 4xAMSes are so useless, then how useless single AMS is?

Edited by MrMadguy, 26 December 2021 - 01:21 AM.

[LordNothing]

ams is pretty much free score, so there is that. a corsair 7a can easily farm a couple thousand missiles in a well lermed match. but that is heavily dependent on the number of missiles in play at any given time. if the mm has you dropping in the higher skill levels, ams is not going to get much use. if there is an event going on, lerms usually come out in force and go ahead and equip the ams. however dont go putting ams on everything. some builds want to keep a low profile and running ams on those is counter to what you are trying to achieve.

Edited by LordNothing, 26 December 2021 - 01:45 AM.

[martian]

MrMadguy, on 26 December 2021 - 01:14 AM, said:

Dunno. I just watch AMSes and their ammo consumption. In case of 275 meters protection range you would expect your AMSes to soak lots of enemy missiles.

Sorry, but 275 m is the maximal range. The effective range is 190 m.

MrMadguy, on 26 December 2021 - 01:14 AM, said:

But it doesn't happen, like if their range would be just around 10m. And you would expect, that when not many missiles are fired at you (like LRM10) - they're all destroyed, cuz your 4xAMSes are 4x more effective, than just 1 AMS. So, even if 4xAMSes are so useless, then how useless single AMS is?

If you feel that having four AMS on your Corsair is useless, then unequip them. However, those quad AMS are the Corsair's main selling point.

Instead of running the AMS-less Corsair, you can use any other Assault 'Mech, many of them are more powerful.

[crazytimes]

Quad AMS will take down NARCs, and about 80-100% of single launchers. Most people don't use single launchers though, so some missiles of any type will get through. Check you after match report for how many missile you've got... and make sure your AMS wasn't turned off. Default key ~.

[PocketYoda]

They are crap, they mitigate very little these days, its why so many want lurm boat nerfs..

[Yiryi-Sa]

MrMadguy, on 26 December 2021 - 01:14 AM, said:

Dunno. I just watch AMSes and their ammo consumption. In case of 275 meters protection range you would expect your AMSes to soak lots of enemy missiles. But it doesn't happen, like if their range would be just around 10m. And you would expect, that when not many missiles are fired at you (like LRM10) - they're all destroyed, cuz your 4xAMSes are 4x more effective, than just 1 AMS. So, even if 4xAMSes are so useless, then how useless single AMS is?

A lot of the usefulness of AMS is situational; you have to place yourself in the right spot to be effective. AMS prioritizes missiles targeting you; if you're taking advantage of Radar Deprivation, that may sequester some of its usefulness (but not in any meaningful way). Sticking as close as you can to your teammates is the best way to utilize AMS.

Range nodes are also a really important factor to AMS usefulness; range increases optimal & max ranges on them. Velocity nodes also affect them (strangely Laser AMS, too, unless changes were made in a patch) but not in any meaningful way.

My last suggestion: don't be shy with Laser AMS. Heat Gen, Cool Run & Heat Management nodes make a big difference. Mix and match AMS and Laser AMS accordingly. Personally, I just go straight up Laser AMS and shut it off when I don't need or need the heat.

[Tarl Cabot]

Nomad Tech, on 26 December 2021 - 05:08 AM, said:

They are crap, they mitigate very little these days, its why so many want lurm boat nerfs..

(chuckles) Up to a point, especially if you are the only one carrying AMS.

OP at the end of the match, Hit Print Screen, especially on your personal scorecard after scrolling down the medium enough to see how many missiles were shot down. During this time lots of matches makes both sides feel like they are the Spartans at Battle of Thermopylae, fighting in the shade. If you have previous screenshots prior to the event, you can compare.

Question to ask though, are you running out of AMS ammo, or close to running out compared prior to the event?

[w0qj]

Just think of your COR-7A as the anchor AMS defense umbrella for the main group of your team, and you know exactly what to do!

Tip: position your COR-7A near the center of the map, behind a key ridge where most LRM must travel to reach your main group! Many maps have such key ridges. eg: Both sides of this 'key' ridge at E6 of Rubellite Oasis. And you need a few members to protect you from Lights... aye, there's the rub, team coordination in QP!

I was going to suggest mostly ammo-based AMS for your COR-7A with 2-3 tons of ammo for overkill.
But in QP, you can also get away with Laser-AMS, if you can tolerate the heat.
Good players purposely prevent your Laser-AMS filled COR-7A from cooling down by launching continuous volleys of LRM just before a major push.

The COR-7A is so good that I personally is willing to pay real world cash to make it COR-7A(S) with +30% CBills Bonus!
https://mwomercs.com...-favorite-mechs

Edited by w0qj, 26 December 2021 - 07:49 AM.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

another thread about %stuff% that does not work for you, ergo it can't work for anybody?

and a 4x ams-mech at that ..

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 26 December 2021 - 08:49 AM.

[Novakaine]

Nothing is wrong with AMS with it's uncanny and physics defying ability to fire thru solid matter.
Especially egregious on maps like Crimson Straits and HPG.

Edited by Novakaine, 26 December 2021 - 09:10 AM.

[Extra Guac]

AMS has been buffed significantly - it's very effective. With quad AMS you shouldn't get hit very much, maybe 1 or 2 missiles per volley. You shouldn't take much damage unless you're standing in an open field against an entire team of LRMers.

[ScrapIron Prime]

If you want to work out the math, feel free. Missiles have velocity and health, AMS has range, rate of fire, and damage done. it starts chipping away at missiles the moment they're in range.

One AMS will knock a missile or three down, four will knock down perhaps a dozen. It gets even better when the lurmer is firing at one of your buddies behind you, because your AMS keeps firing the whole time the missiles are crossing your zone. At the end of the match, check your stats. if you knocked down 600 missiles during the fight, that's 600-1000 damage your team didn't take, that's 600-1000 extra armor for your team.

If providing extra staying power to mechs other than yourself isn't important to you, then don't take AMS.

[martian]

Novakaine, on 26 December 2021 - 09:08 AM, said:

Nothing is wrong with AMS with it's uncanny and physics defying ability to fire thru solid matter.
Especially egregious on maps like Crimson Straits and HPG.

Pretty funny in the tunnel on the new Hellebore Outpost map too.



You are fighting in the tunnel and suddenly your AMS engages LRMs through the ceiling.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Oh, and here's the math. Simplified, since I doubt trigonometry would go over well.

Your AMS has a max range of 275. Let's assume an LRM 10 is firing straight at you, and let's assume no one has extra range or velocity (which they will). The lurms get into 275 range at a speed of 210, and the AMS starts firing at that moment. at that max range, the lurms will hit you in 1.31 seconds. Your AMS does 3.5 damage/second to the lurm swarm, minus a little for the damage dished out at max range, so call it maybe 4.4 damage. Each missile in an LRM 10 swarm has 1.1 health, so four of them die before the other 6 hit.

Now if you have 4 AMS, that means you're essentially immune to a single LRM 10, as is any of the team mates around you, potentially a lot more if the lurms are firing past you so they're in your bubble longer.

But we all know that LRMs don't come in 10's. they come in thundering herds. Two LRM 20's takes 32 damage to knock out of the sky completely, and four LRM 15's takes 36 damage. Your Corsair by itself can knock half of that down, or maybe half to 2/3 if you're protecting someone behind you.

EDIT... The math changes a bit when you have both AMS overload skill nodes, as then each AMS is doing 5 damage per second instead of 3.5. This tracks nicely against most folks higher missile velocity quirks.

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 26 December 2021 - 09:48 AM.

[Hobbles v]

Ams does what it's supposed to do quite well. If you are dieing to missiles with Quad ams on you are not in good positions.

Whats actually wrong with Quad ams is its a conditional weapon. If there are no, or very few missiles on the enemy team you just wasted 4-6 tons and slots. If a weapon requires your opponent to do something specific to be of any use it is unreliable by nature.

Ditch the ams and work on positioning and take advantage of the extra weapons, cooling or engine you can get.

[Flyby215]

Just personal experience; AMS usefulness is very occasional.

I've been playing the Kit Fox for the past 5-6 months because I'm enjoying the much more relaxed playstyle of a support mech. T1 matches usually end with fewer than 100 missiles shot down, but on occasion the triple LAMS is able to hamper a LRM boat, or perhaps more prominently, an ATM boat. You're right, it seems to do virtually nothing vs Streaks, SRMs, or MRMs.

So is it worth spending tonnage on something that's usefulness is only occasional? Probably not to a min-maxer, or anyone who wants to play competitively. Do you get a feeling of satisfaction protecting teammates from some of the incoming missiles when/if the enemy has LRMs/ATMs? I do...

There is something very soothing to me about the gentle hum of an active AMS in the heat of battle. Of course, I'm the kind of player who generally prefers utility and healer classes in other games; so my opinions will be biased.

[FupDup]

The main issue is that AMS depends on how many missiles the red team is bringing. If the reds have little to no missiles, then you wasted tonnage and slots for nothing.

It would be nice if AMS could have some kind of secondary utility outside of shooting down missiles, like maybe shooting down nearby UAVs or (if we're really feeling adventurous) shooting down airstrike jets.

I think there was an obscure TT rule that let you use an AMS as a Machine Gun but that's obviously way out of the question because that's new mechanics.