186 replies to this topic

[1453 R]

The same could be said of literally every cadet account ever. Or any of us for that matter. How do you lot know I'm not some particularly clever, vociferous alt for someone else?

Suspecting everyone and everything of being alts for everyone else is unproductive. Best to simply assume cadets are cadets unless given actual reason otherwise, ne?

[Snukums]

I have to say that for me (and I've been playing the game since the start), it is becoming almost unplayable. I understand the reasons why it is the way it is but the only reason I play now, is for the giveaways.

Groups are killing QP for me. A good, coordinated group playing to win, stomps. No fun for either side. A group that is bad or playing for memes, LOLs runs off and gets the rest of the team killed.

The percentage of good games is declining and often not worth taking the time to play. Sad.

[Heavy Money]

CFC Conky, on 04 January 2022 - 03:15 PM, said:

Hi HM,

A Cadet icon next to a player's name does not necessarily mean they are Cadets. They could very well be T1 players in alt accounts and unless I'm mistaken you keep that Cadet designation for your first 25 matches regardless of your Tier.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Ah yes, you are correct about that. But I meant it just in the context of the matchmaker indicating its a t5 account. I don't think even the best players are going to rank up much within only 25 games. I think I've seen estimates of top players getting to t1 in ~150 games being about the fastest. So perhaps they could make it out of t5 before losing their cadet icon, but not much more.

But I can say for certainty that I've been dragged into matches with cadets that certainly were not alts of high ranked players and were certainly t5 >_<

Good hunting to you too!

Snukums, on 04 January 2022 - 03:40 PM, said:

I have to say that for me (and I've been playing the game since the start), it is becoming almost unplayable. I understand the reasons why it is the way it is but the only reason I play now, is for the giveaways.

Groups are killing QP for me. A good, coordinated group playing to win, stomps. No fun for either side. A group that is bad or playing for memes, LOLs runs off and gets the rest of the team killed.

The percentage of good games is declining and often not worth taking the time to play. Sad.

Feel free to send me a friend request if you want some regulars to drop with who are in the middle of that and are neither stomping or throwing every match (US West Coast evenings). I bet we can help a lot of these problems through community means. (We don't have much more to work with.)

[ScrapIron Prime]

Snukums, on 04 January 2022 - 03:40 PM, said:

I have to say that for me (and I've been playing the game since the start), it is becoming almost unplayable. I understand the reasons why it is the way it is but the only reason I play now, is for the giveaways.

Groups are killing QP for me. A good, coordinated group playing to win, stomps. No fun for either side. A group that is bad or playing for memes, LOLs runs off and gets the rest of the team killed.

The percentage of good games is declining and often not worth taking the time to play. Sad.

Four good players out of twelve would have to be utterly fan- or crap- tastic to “ruin” a game, and I’m just not seeing that with any frequency. I had good games and bad games before, I’m having good games and bad games now. IMO groups are often getting blamed for any game that goes against the player regardless of whether they had an outsized effect on the match.

[ApolloKaras]

ScrapIron Prime, on 04 January 2022 - 04:29 PM, said:

Four good players out of twelve would have to be utterly fan- or crap- tastic to “ruin” a game, and I’m just not seeing that with any frequency. I had good games and bad games before, I’m having good games and bad games now. IMO groups are often getting blamed for any game that goes against the player regardless of whether they had an outsized effect on the match.

This is true. Normally the group you are in will be more cohesive with a 4 man premade, and I think the reason for that is you'll have someone from that 4 man step up and call the shots. However you don't need a premade for that, you just need pilots that are willing to work together. The majority of rolls are happening to folks without a plan and/or just not coordinating during match as the battle conditions change.


EDIT: Also I don't believe we have a player base that will support 4 man premade to a group queue only. They tried that before and the queue times were getting absolutely insane.

Edited by ApolloKaras, 04 January 2022 - 05:15 PM.

[feeWAIVER]

Getting rid of groups in Quickplay would absolutely kill the game.
It's only sad that Quickplay is the current endgame.

But isn't there data out there about the effects a group has on your win/loss ratio?
Pretty sure there is a statistical analysis out there. I know all you kids are hangry for evidence, so who's got it?

[CFC Conky]

Heavy Money, on 04 January 2022 - 04:26 PM, said:

Ah yes, you are correct about that. But I meant it just in the context of the matchmaker indicating its a t5 account. I don't think even the best players are going to rank up much within only 25 games. I think I've seen estimates of top players getting to t1 in ~150 games being about the fastest. So perhaps they could make it out of t5 before losing their cadet icon, but not much more.

But I can say for certainty that I've been dragged into matches with cadets that certainly were not alts of high ranked players and were certainly t5 >_<

Good hunting to you too!



...

Ash did a Twitch stream a while back where he started as a cadet and used only trial mechs to see how many matches it would take to get to T1, I can't remember the exact number of matches he took to do it but I believe it was less than 25.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Edited by CFC Conky, 04 January 2022 - 05:20 PM.

[feeWAIVER]

ScrapIron Prime, on 04 January 2022 - 04:29 PM, said:

Four good players out of twelve would have to be utterly fan- or crap- tastic to “ruin” a game, and I’m just not seeing that with any frequency. I had good games and bad games before, I’m having good games and bad games now. IMO groups are often getting blamed for any game that goes against the player regardless of whether they had an outsized effect on the match.

If 1/3rd of your team is pug armored and focusing targets, it's a lot better than 0/3rd of your team doing it.
30% of a team can be a pretty huge advantage.

[ApolloKaras]

feeWAIVER, on 04 January 2022 - 05:23 PM, said:

If 1/3rd of your team is pug armored and focusing targets, it's a lot better than 0/3rd of your team doing it.
30% of a team can be a pretty huge advantage.

some goes for a regular team. Team work will win it. its just more likely to happen when you have a premade.

[1453 R]

CFC Conky, on 04 January 2022 - 05:19 PM, said:

Ash did a Twitch stream a while back where he started as a cadet and used only trial mechs to see how many matches it would take to get to T1, I can't remember the exact number of matches he took to do it but I believe it was less than 25.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Ash is also a T0 Ultracomp. Even the average T1 is kind of a pale shadow of the Ultracomp folks. It would take a typical T1 much more than 25 matches to get back to tier 1, if alting.

That said? Alting is never as much of a problem as anyone, in any online game ever, claims it is. The number of high-end folks who do it at all seriously is miniscule, and even then - who cares how well Random Nameless Yaybo on the other team performs? If they do exceptionally well, are they an Evil Cheating Baby-Eating Alting T0 Tryhard, or just somebody who had a randomly awesome game?

[Verilligo]

feeWAIVER, on 04 January 2022 - 11:55 AM, said:

lol

Not sure I understand what you're laughing at. Winning IS the entire point of a match. I mean people also play to have fun, but having fun and winning are two great flavors that taste better together. I'm just pointing out that anyone with comp level stats is absolutely going to do whatever it takes to play their best for a victory... rather than the person I was quoting, saying they were grouping only to pump their stats higher and farm. It's just silly talk.

[feeWAIVER]

Verilligo, on 04 January 2022 - 07:31 PM, said:

Not sure I understand what you're laughing at. Winning IS the entire point of a match. I mean people also play to have fun, but having fun and winning are two great flavors that taste better together. I'm just pointing out that anyone with comp level stats is absolutely going to do whatever it takes to play their best for a victory... rather than the person I was quoting, saying they were grouping only to pump their stats higher and farm. It's just silly talk.

I was laughing at you, specifically.
You made me laugh.

[Bassault]

Mike, all you do every game is sit fay away in the middle of nowhere or in the HPG basement until your entire team dies, then you go on a suicide charge and die uselessly, tell me why should we listen to you?

[dubstep albatross]

CFC Conky, on 04 January 2022 - 05:19 PM, said:

Ash did a Twitch stream a while back where he started as a cadet and used only trial mechs to see how many matches it would take to get to T1, I can't remember the exact number of matches he took to do it but I believe it was less than 25.

I am very curious about this. Was this with the current PSR system?

I do not have an exact number, but I believe new accounts start just about 100 PSR under the 4/5 change. It is 1000 PSR per tier, with 0 to 1000 being tier 5 and so on. So, to get from the starting point of approximately 900 PSR to 4001 PSR (1 PSR into Tier 1) is 3101 PSR needed.

At 25 games, that is an average of about 124 PSR per game. In 1,367 matches of data I have yet to see a PSR gain of anywhere near that. The most I have seen is 55. I can tell you that PSR gains over 30 are very rare. Just about .5% of the pilot PSR scores I have seen are over 30, and only approximately 13% of the games I have data for have a pilot with a PSR gain at least that high.

Maybe just starting out in tier 5 one could farm a match score so high that it results in an absurd PSR gain, but that level of PSR gain could not be sustainable for very long as the tiers increased. Even then, all 23 other players basically have to be doing nothing to allow someone to get a match score so high relative to the team and match average as to allow a 124 PSR gain.

Another poster in this thread mentioned an estimate of 150 games. That seems more reasonable as that would be an average of about 21 PSR per game. Even then, that requires some serious consistency and some luck regarding other players you are exposed to. I have seen games where someone farms a bunch of match score with AMS, plus does a lot of damage (usually a COR-7 with quad AMS and multiple RACs), and they throw the averages off enough to dump everyone else's PSR.

Here is match data for a 52 PSR gain (ignore the 55 in the URL, I named the file incorrectly when I uploaded it):

Edited by dubstep albatross, 04 January 2022 - 08:59 PM.

[pattonesque]

IIRC it was something like 200-250 matches to go from cadet to T1. So around a good month's play

[Brauer]

pattonesque, on 04 January 2022 - 08:56 PM, said:

IIRC it was something like 200-250 matches to go from cadet to T1. So around a good month's play

It really depends on the player. I think 100-250 is a reasonable range for fairly good players. I don't know what the absolute fastest would be under the current system, but I wouldn't be too surprised if it was under 100.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

CFC Conky, on 04 January 2022 - 05:19 PM, said:

Ash did a Twitch stream a while back where he started as a cadet and used only trial mechs to see how many matches it would take to get to T1, I can't remember the exact number of matches he took to do it but I believe it was less than 25.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

This was done before the PSR change and reset.

[Heavy Money]

Thanks for the info everyone. Looks like Conky and I were both correct about different things we remembered hearing

[Horseman]

Eatit, on 04 January 2022 - 12:08 PM, said:

see here that you also like to make up for low quality with high quantity.

Let me spell it out for you: you can't have matchmaking quality without player quantity to feed the ******* matchmaker!
If the population grows further, we might have enough players for separate solo and group queues to begin making sense again. Right now, we don't - the population is barely back up to pre-crash levels and you're effectively demanding something that will hurt it further.

Edited by Horseman, 05 January 2022 - 01:02 AM.

[Dogstar]

Eatit, on 04 January 2022 - 11:07 AM, said:

I don't even play anymore. I don't need to win. I was soft banned when groups were added to solo.

If you don't play at all, especially as it's your own petty decision ('soft banned' my posterior), then you certainly don't deserve to be listened to

/ignore