141 replies to this topic

[Leon Ward]

Kotis how do you think it should go on with FP (apart from the fact that PGI goes past the A****)?

[Staude Coston]

Kotis77, on 24 January 2022 - 11:09 AM, said:

At the state of FP do we need to do something?

There is certain player mentality that thinks FP is still competetive gamemode.Most of these guys have joined EVIL/2WAR. 4 years ago or more in FP werent enough highskilled playerpool to fight 12man EVIL stompingparty. We tried many times to fight these guys. It was hard 4 years ago to get decent guys to fight big groups now even harder. When got same amount of skill and win one or two matches they stopped playing. And us doing the stomping after that when they stopped playing. So running high skilled 12mans have sucked after 2017.


All the big groups still running highskilled stompingparties still quote FP loadingscreen like that means anything. So that they can have their fun stomping puggies. Lets admit FP its just casual mode that is more demanding than QP. Except EVIL/2WAR/DSx who artificially keep FP "competetive gamemode" so they can run 12mans. So these bullies can "buy" win by just dropping more veterans. Instead of going to play comp with the rest of real comp guys. And the matches against these 12man 2WAR/DSX is so ******* boring. Gotta be timidiest 12mans ever to play FP. They know that they gonna win but still play so ******* sweaty af. yikes. groups that have W/L ratio over 3 dont wanna make it fair.


If FP is highly competetive gamemode there would be more "real comp" guys playing. EMP/JGx big parties comes to kill ques one or two times per year. btw EMP still holds world record 48-1, according to stimraug they will come for 48-0 someday. But its not that bad as EVIL/2WAR has been killing game for so long, just that they can have some fun with they boys. Past 2 years i have been watching EVERYONE that streams FP, to see if there is any other 12mans fighting or having close games. Sadly no. There was one stream, i think it was ASH stream NA time, like 7months ago where there was 5 really close games in row and people did try to balance matches, but rest of the time its just stompy.


And topics discussing FP problems are just should puggies do in perfect world 1.1k damage to join match or is it 1k damage is enough. Like any of these puggies read FP forums.


It would be little bit better if we got some help from PGI. Like making matchmaker so we could get at least 12 best players available to fight 12mans., make siege matches counter attack or just make it random. Or all three.

If there is 0% chance of winning match, ppl stop playing, or the HC players that dont mind losing still plays but they arent usually that good.


So my question is should highskill big groups be condemn?

Or the loadingscreen is the bible and survival of the fittest babyyy and keep smashing?

I don't accept it, also play FP with a 3-4 man group, clan side tribe player, but I can understand what you mean
Thursday is DSX drop day
I myself invited you to our group, you didn't
Nonu comes and looks at the group if we are too strong he switches to the other side my respect for that

Edited by Staude, 25 January 2022 - 07:57 AM.

[FlavorousOne54]

SVEDRUM, on 24 January 2022 - 11:55 AM, said:

Kotis, I would love to play against good 12 players. But, unfortunately, at the moment, 12 players can only be collected by the DSX, and then only once a week. And even on this day they try to avoid us. When was the last time you saw 12 2WAR players in a drop? Personally, I don't remember it. Basically it is 8 people. Due to the time difference, we still cannot collect 12 people from the unit.
PGI killed FP back in 2018. Many good players left the game. Therefore, we have what we have.
And about the big groups, maybe you're wrong. There are a few more units that can put together a large group, such as 31HR, BTDN, BT, G-NX etc. It's just possible the difference in the time of our game and theirs.

If you don't mind me asking, how did PGI kill of Faction Play?

[Nightbird]

Kotis77, on 25 January 2022 - 03:23 AM, said:

Just make it fair. Thats all im asking. Dont overstack if not needed. Finally after these years make it fair for everyone. Give other team a chance.

I usually nowdays call most of winnable matches if you havent noticed. And i can do some new player training if thats a trade for fair matches. But theres gotta be some more easier games than the last 3 times i logged in and faced 12mans with puggies who doesnt listen.

We're not going to artificially limit ourselves to less than 12, and turn away people who join our discord and want to pew.

If PGI wants to limit all teams to 4 or 8, so be it. It's their game.

[ccrider]

I don't play euro time but on NA prime we only run 3-4 people and play 12 mans all the time. I really don't mind to be honest; games have been competitive and we get to wreck **** until we're dead so win or lose, if the game is good I don't care.

[Ignatius Audene]

Eu prime is rly diffrent. There are only a couple of units left. HR31, BT, Dsx, 2war, jinx, RCW. And only the frist 3 can field a 12 man (rare sight). Normally groups are .ore mixed FP veterans, but especially these should try to balance the que themself. More often than not there are simply not enough players for 2 stacks. Many matches have 5+ total puggas. There is no final boss group u can hunt with your premade in eu prime. Sure I dont ask for units to split up or dsx to switch to Is etc since they main clan, but these mixed groups should rly keep an eye on twitch and or social tab if there is proper opposition.

Edited by Ignatius Audene, 26 January 2022 - 03:22 AM.

[Yondu Udonta]

Kotis77, on 24 January 2022 - 11:09 AM, said:

At the state of FP do we need to do something?

There is certain player mentality that thinks FP is still competetive gamemode.Most of these guys have joined EVIL/2WAR. 4 years ago or more in FP werent enough highskilled playerpool to fight 12man EVIL stompingparty. We tried many times to fight these guys. It was hard 4 years ago to get decent guys to fight big groups now even harder. When got same amount of skill and win one or two matches they stopped playing. And us doing the stomping after that when they stopped playing. So running high skilled 12mans have sucked after 2017.


All the big groups still running highskilled stompingparties still quote FP loadingscreen like that means anything. So that they can have their fun stomping puggies. Lets admit FP its just casual mode that is more demanding than QP. Except EVIL/2WAR/DSx who artificially keep FP "competetive gamemode" so they can run 12mans. So these bullies can "buy" win by just dropping more veterans. Instead of going to play comp with the rest of real comp guys. And the matches against these 12man 2WAR/DSX is so ******* boring. Gotta be timidiest 12mans ever to play FP. They know that they gonna win but still play so ******* sweaty af. yikes. groups that have W/L ratio over 3 dont wanna make it fair.


If FP is highly competetive gamemode there would be more "real comp" guys playing. EMP/JGx big parties comes to kill ques one or two times per year. btw EMP still holds world record 48-1, according to stimraug they will come for 48-0 someday. But its not that bad as EVIL/2WAR has been killing game for so long, just that they can have some fun with they boys. Past 2 years i have been watching EVERYONE that streams FP, to see if there is any other 12mans fighting or having close games. Sadly no. There was one stream, i think it was ASH stream NA time, like 7months ago where there was 5 really close games in row and people did try to balance matches, but rest of the time its just stompy.


And topics discussing FP problems are just should puggies do in perfect world 1.1k damage to join match or is it 1k damage is enough. Like any of these puggies read FP forums.


It would be little bit better if we got some help from PGI. Like making matchmaker so we could get at least 12 best players available to fight 12mans., make siege matches counter attack or just make it random. Or all three.

If there is 0% chance of winning match, ppl stop playing, or the HC players that dont mind losing still plays but they arent usually that good.


So my question is should highskill big groups be condemn?

Or the loadingscreen is the bible and survival of the fittest babyyy and keep smashing?

Plenty of initiatives by various players and units have been done to try to mitigate such one-sided matches. Golli had Oceanic Faction Play nights in 2020 which unfortunately died out due to the lack of players, I made a FP guide, along with a few others e.g. MPG and denAir who had mech lists to educate newer players and make it easier for them to get into the game mode. 12 man DSx do self-balance at times by ejecting a wave of mechs if they deem the opposition extremely outskilled. McGoat did min tonnage drops. Sometimes when I am streaming during EU time, various members of big groups e.g. RJF/2WAR/GNX do pop by the stream and we try to sync drop against each other. The big groups themselves largely do not enjoy one-sided matches either.

If competitiveness is defined by the level of skill expected, FP is a competitive game mode, relative to QP. The fact that it doesn't have any MM means that the wheat will be sorted from the chaff. Even Comp has some sort of MM in those division-based leagues such as MOR or ISC.

As mentioned winning a close match is more satisfying than roflstomping sub 48-12.

Ultimately PGI needs to put in effort to fix FP, which they may be leaning towards now that Cauldron has done a majority of balancing, but until then help from PGI should not be expected.

As is suggested by what I mentioned above, condemning big groups is out of the question MOST of the time. What people should be condemning are the kitchen sink builds, the cadets, the 'nothing-but-LRM-boats-on-attack' players, the 'light-on-first-wave-to-scout-on-attack' players, players who don't put an effort to learn the game mode. The most I will give them is a link of my FP guide on the forums. Ultimately it is up to them if they want to learn the game mode properly. If not I will continue to farm and beat the **** out of them and eventually make them quit the game mode. I will not waste my time handholding people or tell them nicely to do this and that. For the rare few that want to learn, I will help them to the best of my ability.

[Bowelhacker]

Luckily the only time I'm really on to be able to play faction is the GNX are busy ruining it, or 2WAR are busy ruining it. That makes it great.

People still line up like idiots to get slaughtered (myself included now and then), I have no idea what a group of nine or ten GNX guys gets out of a win where they lose 15 mechs whilst butchering the other side's 48. Bigger epeen I suppose? It seems very rare that any large and skilled groups find themselves against each other, despite what some may claim.

The only solution I can see would be if they voluntarily fought against each other. Split their group, take opposite sides. At least it might be less shite for the rest of us who like to play as well.

Don't expect PGI to do even the least one godsdamned thing about faction though. They don't care.

[Kotis77]

Ok yeah the only one that can limit groups is PGI or do something about balance. And everyone knows that PGI aint doing anything big to FP. But least try to understand others players pov that play this game. My pov is if there is like 0% of winning the game 3-5 games a row i stop playing. And i think thats the most players too. Sure i need to group up more and call more games that i do nowdays. But there is times that i cant get enough skill to fight you guys when you have 12man going like 8x2WARs and 4 good veterans. And i dont think there is any another group that can do that either? And that is killing the population. If you really care about the game pls think about this.

I think Ignatius idea to put link to PGI discord in start of the match is good plan to get team/newplayers to come together to work as together. Is there any coders that now is this too hard to do for PGI? Or any other REALLY simple plans to make matches easier for underdog teams?

I will try to be more social and teach newplayer from now on, but everyone needs to chip in too. I think most of units that play this game have one guy checking forums now and then. We can be a community if we want too. Or just hate each other...

I will try to play more game, less forums now on...

o7

[Nonu]

​This is probably the first time I write on forums, and probably the last​, because let's face it, in the end nobody cares, and no actions will be taken.
But since everybody is venting, here goes.
​
The only thing keeping this game alive, was the fact that the community here was and still is well above the majority of the multiplayer games out there. So it goes without saying that most of us play in groups to hang around with people we've been playing for years now, even with people that don't want to speak on coms; we still play and respect each other. Even Primo... he will be missed

So no, this discussion is not about someone being angry at you for playing with your 12 man group of friends, or forcing you to gimp yourself for the whims of another. It's about using your common sense and find a difficult balance in a very small community of players for Faction. It’s about not being selfish enough, thinking your behavior doesn’t affect the player base. It does, always has; you all know the history of this game so far.

Jinx and evil(2war) always had a friendly-competitive relation. And when we had equal amounts o​f players (3-5) on each side the games were amazing, everybody had fun. We would group up occasionally to go up against DSX or other groups, other than that, we would always be on the opposite sides trying to balance the matches, because both used our common sense and realized there is no fun playing the game if you end up shooting the enemy team in the dropzone one by one...

So no, even stacking 12 man is not the problem here. The problem is how you chose to play as a 12 man.
And i have to give credit to DSX and especially to 31HR because even when they stack, they don’t play sweaty tactics or meta builds, and always push when they have the upper hand. At least they give you the chance to have some fun even if you lose. And that is what it’s all about. Win or lose, against teams like that you would always play again.

That was the case with most of the WAR boys, until they somehow decided "only two parties matter: PGI, and 2WAR".
Last game we played against you guys, you decided to play as a 8 or so men group , skirmish game on crimson strait, fielding nothing but erlarges on stalkers camping the island and waiting for a bunch of randoms to come at you.... I asked you if this is the way you wanna play this game? and apparently it was. You are playing competitively... against pugs... I also told some of you, this kind of gameplay will make people leave; and after that game, at least 2 people from out unit stopped playing because... use your common sense here and fill the blanks. Even i stopped playing for a week or so because there is no fun in playing the game like this.
Came back a few days ago, what do you know, 12 man 2WAR on emerald taiga with erll and standard sweaty mechs farming pugs in the drop. So i said fine, you win, the game is yours, back to QP.

Now try to put your ego aside and ask the people in QP why they don’t wanna play faction. The answer is BECAUSE FP IS **** RIGHT NOW.
Now try to use your own common sense and realize the way you play the game affects the player base, and you will be left standing in queue 12-0 because nobody wants to waste 30 min on a cringe match.

[Kotis77]

<3 Nonu.

And i tought you didnt read the forums

Edited by Kotis77, 26 January 2022 - 09:29 AM.

[Mochyn Pupur]

Inferna Canis, on 24 January 2022 - 12:29 PM, said:

Im sorry you feel this way Kotis77, the population is so much smaller now and there are a lot less teams about. But pug stomping is just somthing that cant be helped, you cant always get a team to drop against and has always been this way since 2016:

Looking at the score card and considering your statement about stomps being unavoidable; this confirms why FP died a death.

Not to criticise any unit, but looking at the results in general, the well formed and experienced team going up against pugs could have made the outcome a little more favourable to the losing side without impacting a win for the valiant 12.

• If (and this is only for discussion sake) EVIL were the attackers, they could have won by taking a gate(s), the three power generators and destroying the orbital cannon so avoiding seal clubbing and farming, winning the match and hopefully moving onto another one with stouter opposition.
  
• If they were defending (looking at the clock, not sure they were, most likely not), then at 36 v 0, they could have comfortably thrown their first mechs giving kills/kmd and assists to the other side and still won because of superior skill and likely better mech builds; this would have bumped the losing sides rewards somewhat without a serious impact on the winning side - this was a tactic IDI used to do to give back to the other side for trying to make a match of it (other things the IDI did I am not permitted to say because it apparently encourages poor play or contravenes acceptable behaviour when dealing with your own side in a drop )
  
• If EVIL were defending and it was clear a stomp was in progress, they could have withheld numbers and let those actively trying to fight and make a game of it, not be faced with the massed guns of a superior skilled/equipped team, i.e. 2 v 4, 1 v 2 or 1 v 1 maybe losing a few mechs, but granting a sense of achievement for those few kills the opposition gained.
  
• Obviously if EVIL were defending and the opposition bailed because they knew or believed it would be pointless trying to do anything with the drop, then spawn camping the attackers would be the only option to finish the match quickly, but, refer to the previous suggestion for those trying to do the right thing.

As you can see, all four options have nothing to do with a 48 v 0 stomp caused by PGI and the matchmaker, but are a result of the player's approach to dominating a series of pugs in a game mode that is woefully under-subscribed and not likely to improve due to numbers and the fact the pugs may only try this, the best mode, a couple of times before becoming discouraged and never try again. Whose fault is that, well . . . . . .

A little bit of thought goes a long way in making the game enjoyable to all; bringing in new blood to keep the old guard happy and engaged, who knows, maybe there are some rough diamonds out there waiting to be recruited by the old units, and possibly get back to the halcyon days of 2, 3 or 4 simultaneous drops per unit? Never going to happen if you follow the mindset of "48 v 0" is inevitable.

[Kotis77]

That pic is ancient history. We had games like that too. But back then there was so many 12mans running so there were so many good matches too. Game was good back then

So fak history lets move on.

Edited by Kotis77, 26 January 2022 - 09:52 AM.

[Natural Predator]

Evil is retired. Just a heads up. All original evil players are gone from the game except Hellsdog and Nightbird. I only do Quick plays to test out the new patch mechs from Cauldron or solo drop in FP for nostalgia sake.

[Nightbird]

Nonu, on 26 January 2022 - 09:21 AM, said:

​This is probably the first time I write on forums, and probably the last​, because let's face it, in the end nobody cares, and no actions will be taken.
But since everybody is venting, here goes.

Again, why is the effort that should be made the responsibility of someone else? Why not state what your unit has done to help FP?

Spewing vitriol and demoralizing your own team is what we think of when we think of Jinx. Stop trying to change things with words, make some actions for a change.

Edited by Nightbird, 26 January 2022 - 10:11 AM.

[Kotis77]

Ok lets trade. What we need to do? Can you change your ways then?

[Nightbird]

Kotis77, on 26 January 2022 - 10:28 AM, said:

Ok lets trade. What we need to do? Can you change your ways then?

It's not a trade, we've done plenty and continue to do what we can to help FP since forming 2WAR. If you need someone to give you something to do something positive, then don't bother.

[Nonu]

It's all good, Nightbird, never expected you to understand my point. And there is no point trying to bother. Cheers

[Nightbird]

Nonu, on 26 January 2022 - 10:39 AM, said:

It's all good, Nightbird, never expected you to understand my point. And there is no point trying to bother. Cheers

Do you say that while understanding my point or not understanding as well?

[justcallme A S H]

Nonu, on 26 January 2022 - 10:39 AM, said:

It's all good, Nightbird, never expected you to understand my point. And there is no point trying to bother. Cheers

Just stop chasing me around the map to dirty FP player