265 replies to this topic

[Nightbird]

ScrapIron Prime, on 09 October 2022 - 06:06 PM, said:

Never let someone posting under an alt account get under your skin. Or any random person on the internet, for that matter.

He's not wrong, though. PGI handles bans quietly now, and they've determined that telling us how many bans are happening monthly or quarterly or whatever would not be good. Though it would be nice to see a post of "we have become aware of the following hack and are taking steps to remove players who are using it" or something like that.

I don't know how close I can get to the line (forum rules) without crossing it. There are no cheat detection in game. Previous bans are likely based on manual effort - employees that spectate in game (perhaps with additional "wallhack" spectator tools) to manually catch people cheating or watch people who are reported as cheating.

My assumption on there being no cheat detection is because paid cheat writers run their cheats regularly and check to see if those accounts are banned. When a cheat is detected, the version gets updated to avoid detection again in a cat-and-mouse game. In examining MWO's case, there has not been updates for many many years, implying to me there is no systemic detection and those caught are exceptions of people who are outed by friends or exceptionally blatant cheaters, but without death cam features its hard to provide the impossibly high level of evidence PGI requires.

[Nightbird]

Ding Toast is Ready, on 09 October 2022 - 06:35 PM, said:

In the settings there's keys for some kind of Spectator Mode but I have never seen an option to spectate a match (as in, not play in it, but watch it). Seems kind of silly to have that there in the settings but have no application for it, and this is one potentially good application.

That spectator mode is only available to players in private lobby, and likely the inefficient tool PGI uses in live matches to catch hackers.

[martian]

BellatorMonk, on 09 October 2022 - 05:10 PM, said:

The absence of proof doesn't mean it doesn't exist or that something isn't happening. If you are truly playing this game and can't admit there are people cheating then you really are not playing the game. Is it "widespread"..probably not...is it happening on some scale..yes.

Anybody claiming that cheating is "widespread", "common", "MWO is full of cheaters" or "happening on some scale" - or using any similar phrase - must first collect tons of verifiable proofs (screenshots, videos, etc.) showing such cheating in the current game.

Saying "google such proofs" does not cut it. If somebody shows up with the claims of a wide existence of something, then it is his obligation to have proofs ready. After all, it should be a very easy task for him.
That's how discussions work. Telling other people to find proofs for somebody else's theory is not the correct approach.

Also, stating "The game is full of cheaters. Prove me that it is not so." is not the correct approach. See above.

Also, complaining "Somebody killed me in the game. Therefore, he must have been cheating" does not count as proof. Many players have excellent piloting and gunnery skills, map knowledge and situational awareness.

[BellatorMonk]

"Is it "widespread"..probably not...is it happening on some scale..yes."


Such inane blind devotion and constant assurance that NO cheating is happening is concerning...and very odd.

[Akamia Terizen]

BellatorMonk, on 10 October 2022 - 08:34 AM, said:

"Is it "widespread"..probably not...is it happening on some scale..yes."


Such inane blind devotion and constant assurance that NO cheating is happening is concerning...and very odd.

That is very literally not what's happening, my guy. "Not happening as often as you think" is not the same thing as "not happening". "Show me some evidence supporting this specific accusation" is not the same thing as "cheating doesn't happen".

[Nightbird]

Akamia Terizen, on 10 October 2022 - 08:55 AM, said:

That is very literally not what's happening, my guy. "Not happening as often as you think" is not the same thing as "not happening". "Show me some evidence supporting this specific accusation" is not the same thing as "cheating doesn't happen".

Exactly, we all agree there is cheats available, there is no anti-cheat, and MWO doesn't have features supporting gathering of evidence against cheaters.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Nightbird, on 10 October 2022 - 09:11 AM, said:

Exactly, we all agree there is cheats available, there is no anti-cheat, and MWO doesn't have features supporting gathering of evidence against cheaters.

EX-actly. If someone kills you, they likely weren’t cheating. I’d say highly likely. Since it’s NEVER happened to me in 10 years of playing soup queue, group queue, faction play, and competitive play (whereupon I lost badly, but that’s beside the point)… I’ll go out on a limb here and say very, highly, extremely unlikely.

[Nightbird]

ScrapIron Prime, on 10 October 2022 - 10:15 AM, said:

EX-actly. If someone kills you, they likely weren’t cheating. I’d say highly likely. Since it’s NEVER happened to me in 10 years of playing soup queue, group queue, faction play, and competitive play (whereupon I lost badly, but that’s beside the point)… I’ll go out on a limb here and say very, highly, extremely unlikely.

That cheats are available, hasn't been updated for years, and that MWO doesn't have death cam anti-cheat features can all be verified.

Do you have any evidence to support your statement that cheating "NEVER" happened to you? Do you have access to death cam features the rest of us doesn't, or is it simply what you believe to be the case?

Shouldn't your belief there is no cheating simply cancel out the belief there is cheating? And all we have left are the facts that can be verified.

Edited by Nightbird, 10 October 2022 - 10:24 AM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Have I recorded every match I've ever been in? Heck no.

Have I been ganked or otherwise one-shotted out of nowhere? Yes. But to my honest recollection, each of those instances happened because I was not aware that a red mech was behind me or because I set myself up for a headshot (not moving, throwing it in reverse and therefore barely moving, or popping over/around the same piece of cover 3 times in a row or more). I attribute each of those gory losses to my own battlefield awareness, and I'm pleased that this sort of thing rarely happens these days.

So do people cheat? I would assume so. But in my personal experience, I have never attributed a loss to it. That's all I can say.

[Nightbird]

ScrapIron Prime, on 10 October 2022 - 10:33 AM, said:

Have I recorded every match I've ever been in? Heck no.

Recording your own matches wouldn't help determine if someone located you with wallhack for example. That been said, I agree with your attitude.

[Meep Meep]

I don't think its widespread either. But I certainly notice when a blue laser sniper somehow perfectly tracks the ct of my wildly twisting and evading masc flea the entire burn at 800m and doesn't apply any damage to the torsos. No one has that good an aim. Also its hilariously obvious when someone is using wallhax and is always aimed at you when you poke cover even if you had moved almost halfway across the map to reposition and carefully checked to see if any uav are up. I do document those and send them in but so far every one I reported is still active. It is what it is I suppose and I treat it as an additional challenge to overcome. Aimbots don't equal instawin and you can beat them along with wallhax abusers.

[Curccu]

Yes there probably are cheats and those using them but from my perspective at least extremely rarely has someone used cheat so clearly that I can say that fellow is cheating for sure. Wallhack is almost impossible to notice if cheater uses it subtly and doesn't abuse **** out of it and aimbot is usually pretty damn easy to spot specially if you encounter same fellow multiple times.

[Pixel Hunter]

Meep Meep, on 10 October 2022 - 11:22 AM, said:

I don't think its widespread either. But I certainly notice when a blue laser sniper somehow perfectly tracks the ct of my wildly twisting and evading masc flea the entire burn at 800m and doesn't apply any damage to the torsos. No one has that good an aim. Also its hilariously obvious when someone is using wallhax and is always aimed at you when you poke cover even if you had moved almost halfway across the map to reposition and carefully checked to see if any uav are up. I do document those and send them in but so far every one I reported is still active. It is what it is I suppose and I treat it as an additional challenge to overcome. Aimbots don't equal instawin and you can beat them along with wallhax abusers.

and I think that's the disconnect with a lot of people. most people think hackers are the super obvious ones with horrid aim bots of flying hacks like remember back in the mid to late 2000's, yet what we really are seeing are soft hacks that aid in spotting or more subtle aim bots that just look like really good aim. That's what makes it hard to detect. I will also add an honorable mention goes out to .cfg tweaks and macro use which is questionable but not necessary a hack.

but fact of the matter is, a game with no anti cheat on an old engine is gonna have it's share of hacks.

[Curccu]

Pixel Hunter, on 11 October 2022 - 06:50 PM, said:

I will also add an honorable mention goes out to .cfg tweaks and macro use which is questionable but not necessary a hack.

Nothing questionable about Macros / Firecontrol / .cfg edits (only files that PGI has whitelisted) because those are allowed by PGI.

[Pixel Hunter]

Curccu, on 12 October 2022 - 05:24 AM, said:

Nothing questionable about Macros / Firecontrol / .cfg edits (only files that PGI has whitelisted) because those are allowed by PGI.

I that's why I didn't outright call it a cheat, but it does give a competitive advantage outside of something that normally is in game settings/standard controls.

[Meep Meep]

Pixel Hunter, on 12 October 2022 - 02:12 PM, said:

I that's why I didn't outright call it a cheat, but it does give a competitive advantage outside of something that normally is in game settings/standard controls.

Then use it yourself. I made a custom gfx config to force the game engine to render everything at full detail at all distances so that very high actually looks almost like a modern very high settings. However its most useful with low settings as you keep the high detail and render distance but it removes all the clutter for the best situational awareness. You don't even need a particularly beefy system either as it runs perfectly at 1080p on a gtx 960 and users have reported it also smooths out some frame time issues and other in game hitching.

https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__6441573

[Curccu]

Pixel Hunter, on 12 October 2022 - 02:12 PM, said:

I that's why I didn't outright call it a cheat, but it does give a competitive advantage outside of something that normally is in game settings/standard controls.

Yes but something developer whiteflags cannot be called even questionable IMO.
Macros can do stuff more precise than human but is there really any real advantage in those? I have used macros to build AC2 chainfire build to jager back in the day which was fun but less effective than alphaing all 6 of them at once. And tried to do ERLL group chainfires to precisely evade ghostheat but didn't get it to work as well as I wanted so I ditched that also.

[Bowelhacker]

No one cheats, they just get a "new mouse"...

[martian]

Bowelhacker, on 13 October 2022 - 04:48 AM, said:

No one cheats, they just get a "new mouse"...

To be honest, new mouse and keyboard can really help ...

[Meep Meep]

martian, on 13 October 2022 - 06:13 AM, said:

To be honest, new mouse and keyboard can really help ...

The mice with on the fly dpi changing are super sweet for shooters. You can go from 360 no scope twitchy bunny hopping to smooth as molasses fine aiming for sniper shots at the press of a button.