101 replies to this topic

[DaZur]

All I have left to say is...

"If the snipers can shoot you... They too can be shot".

Seriously, The solution (At least for me) is to aggressively engage the snipers FIRST, then look for opportunity at ground level. I have more than a handful of matches on this map where one or two team members doing sniper suppression makes or breaks match success. (Same logic applies on HPG).

I don't know what is more exhilarating... One shotting lights or bagging a sniper.

Edited by DaZur, 24 March 2022 - 06:52 PM.

[PocketYoda]

DaZur, on 24 March 2022 - 06:51 PM, said:

All I have left to say is...

"If the snipers can shoot you... They too can be shot".

Seriously, The solution (At least for me) is to aggressively engage the snipers FIRST, then look for opportunity at ground level. I have more than a handful of matches on this map where one or two team members doing sniper suppression makes or breaks match success. (Same logic applies on HPG).

I don't know what is more exhilarating... One shotting lights or bagging a sniper.

Not if they are all using Lrm boats..

[DaZur]

Nomad Tech, on 24 March 2022 - 07:06 PM, said:

Not if they are all using Lrm boats..

Can't comment intelligently on LRM'ers taking position on snipers ridge as I've honestly not seen a lot of it... When I did, anyone with JJs pretty much handled them in short order.

[Ticklejuice]

I watched two snipers play laser tag on opposite ridges. 10/10

I wish people would stop picking this map.

[cazeral]

pbiggz, on 24 March 2022 - 09:44 AM, said:

Every time there's a new or reworked map, the same people (who prior to, complained about how bad the existing maps were) complain that the older maps were perfect, and PGI is unqualified to change them and the new maps are terrible.

As though they think they can have their cake and eat it too. Give it a couple weeks, those same people will shut up like they always do.

Give it a few weeks and it will become another map that doesn't get voted for unless someone is gaming the vote systems and accidentally overdoes it with someone else doing the same, pretty much like new Caustic and to a degree, new HPG (more likely to be chosen as an alternative to older maps people vie away from like Alpine Peaks; still a great map, but relatively few people know how to play it well now).

Of all the new maps, I would say from experience, new Canyon Network has become a success, but that's it.

[Dr Wubs]

a. Why does there have to be a "sniper shelf"? If you wanna snipe, do it with skill instead of a highchair.

b. I don't mind new maps, but having more choice is better than taking old ones out of the rotation.

c. How the hell did HPG get "fixed" but Alpine doesn't need to be changed?

Edited by Dr Wubs, 25 March 2022 - 03:12 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

As for sniper ridges, it would be nice if they weren't designed in HPG and Vale to be "given" to a team. Sniper perches should be contestable for either team, 800-1200 m apart so the snipers go after each other. It's a little too far apart on this map for that. I spectated one player trying to snipe 1700 m from his side to the enemy side. meanwhile, the center of the map is the perfect distance for long range weapons but I think the cover is adequate. You could put some archway structures in there for better cover. Like one of the buildings on River City.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Dr Wubs, on 25 March 2022 - 03:11 AM, said:

c. How the hell did HPG get "fixed" but Alpine doesn't need to be changed?

I don't think anyone didn't say Alpine didin't need changed, but HPG is one of the most commonly voted and played maps. I rarely drop on Alpine, but it does need work. It's always been unbalanced.

[pbiggz]

cazeral, on 25 March 2022 - 12:33 AM, said:

Give it a few weeks and it will become another map that doesn't get voted for unless someone is gaming the vote systems and accidentally overdoes it with someone else doing the same, pretty much like new Caustic and to a degree, new HPG (more likely to be chosen as an alternative to older maps people vie away from like Alpine Peaks; still a great map, but relatively few people know how to play it well now).

Of all the new maps, I would say from experience, new Canyon Network has become a success, but that's it.

Plenty of people play new HPG and I've seen it loads of times. Your only real example there is new Caustic, which has some notable issues.

[ScrapIron Prime]

And please do check out Phil's latest video. The enemy team had 3 snipers on the hill until the very end of the game. Watch how he maneuvers through cover in the center of the map so he essentially never had to worry about those snipers the entire game.

[DaZur]

ScrapIron Prime, on 25 March 2022 - 08:10 AM, said:

And please do check out Phil's latest video. The enemy team had 3 snipers on the hill until the very end of the game. Watch how he maneuvers through cover in the center of the map so he essentially never had to worry about those snipers the entire game.

Seriously?... This kind of situational awareness and tactical response if waaaaay above the average players paygrade.

[ScrapIron Prime]

DaZur, on 25 March 2022 - 08:16 AM, said:

Seriously?... This kind of situational awareness and tactical response if waaaaay above the average players paygrade.

and the more of it they observe, the more of it will sink in. Anything to trim down the number of people crying about how unfair a new map is because someone killed them on it once!

[pattonesque]

ScrapIron Prime, on 25 March 2022 - 08:27 AM, said:

and the more of it they observe, the more of it will sink in. Anything to trim down the number of people crying about how unfair a new map is because someone killed them on it once!

I don't think MWO pubbies are great at *learning*

[Lumovanis]

I've played a few games here where the entire enemy team parks up on the ridge. They have better cover up there than anywhere on the lower areas. Pushing them as a team, while doable, always results in tons of free damage for them (not to mention strike spam on the ramps). It has been pretty miserable when this happens. Honestly it would probably be okay if they reduced the massive amount of cover they have up there by a fair amount. They should not be able to comfortably hide their entire team on the ridge.

On the other hand; conquest is a lot of fun here.

Edited by Lumovanis, 25 March 2022 - 11:51 AM.

[DaZur]

Lumovanis, on 25 March 2022 - 11:50 AM, said:

I've played a few games here where the entire enemy team parks up on the ridge. They have better cover up there than anywhere on the lower areas. Pushing them as a team, while doable, always results in tons of free damage for them (not to mention strike spam on the ramps). It has been pretty miserable when this happens. Honestly it would probably be okay if they reduced the massive amount of cover they have up there by a fair amount. They should not be able to comfortably hide their entire team on the ridge.

On the other hand; conquest is a lot of fun here.

Had a match the other night like that... Someone had the bright idea of parking along the face of the ridge (We had 1 kill already} putting them in the position of having to leave their lofty perch and come down to engage us or lose the match.

It was glorious as we effectively focus fired them one-by-one as they got antsy and resigned to coming to down to engage...

Edited by DaZur, 25 March 2022 - 12:19 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

pattonesque, on 25 March 2022 - 09:02 AM, said:

I don't think MWO pubbies are great at *learning*

Sometimes the herd animals DO learn. Every little bit counts.

[Bowelhacker]

Ticklejuice, on 24 March 2022 - 08:02 PM, said:

I watched two snipers play laser tag on opposite ridges. 10/10

I wish people would stop picking this map.

Hardly anyone seems to pick it when it comes up in the games I play.

[JudauAshta]

good map with great brawling potential but pgi had to cater to sniper weirdos and give them great position to snipe them.

took my direcamper build on it, farmed the enemy team pretty easily.

remove the sniper spots... or at least make them more exposed!!

[Dr Wubs]

TheCaptainJZ, on 25 March 2022 - 04:43 AM, said:

I don't think anyone didn't say Alpine didin't need changed, but HPG is one of the most commonly voted and played maps. I rarely drop on Alpine, but it does need work. It's always been unbalanced.

Are you kidding me?

The most popular maps are the ones where people agree that the battlefield offers balanced fights.

The old HPG's crime afaik was being symmetrical. It was 'fixed' by being made asymmetrical and making massive shelf so that more people can stand around the edge shooting people without getting shot.

Put the old HPG in the rotation and see which one is more popular: the old one or the 'fixed' one.

Moreover, the reason that Alpine doesn't get votes is because it's crap. The fights are crap. People just stand up high and plunk opponents down below. The high places are not equally accessible. One team has a massive advantage.

But oh no, gotta fix the most popular map in the game by making it worse.

[Corbantu]

I only played emerald vale once. It was a domination map, seemed alright. There was plenty of cover in the middle, although if you were to push you found yourself exposed to any 6 different locations as soon as you reached the adversaries side. Still seemed alright.