114 replies to this topic

[Herod]

It plays very differently from the remake. No reason they both can't be in the rotation. Please and Thank you.

[JudauAshta]

snipers sway the balance too much, if opponents control the sniper walls you'll have a hard time

[pbiggz]

it was a brainless nascar donut. No thanks. Ill take the map that actually makes you think.

[John Bronco]

Yes, it plays much worse than new HPG. I never want to see it again.

[feeWAIVER]

I miss the Caustic Crater.
It was elegant in its simplicity.

[LordNothing]

all classic maps should come back. i don't care how obsolete or broke they are. small maps are good if they ever do 8v8 again, perhaps as part of event queue.

Edited by LordNothing, 27 March 2022 - 08:01 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

LordNothing, on 27 March 2022 - 07:57 PM, said:

all classic maps should come back. i don't care how obsolete or broke they are. small maps are good if they ever do 8v8 again, perhaps as part of event queue.

Partly disagree. Old Caustic and HPG were terrible maps. The only possible game play was ring-around-the-middle. You could have fixed Caustic by making two more domination circles so it randomized WHERE the fight happened in that game play mode, but there’s no option to do that with old HPG, so it had to go.

Old Polar Highlands was better, a very versatile map that never had a fight in the same location twice… except for Domination, but you could have fixed that too with more Dom circles and matching spawn points. A lot of people didn’t like it’s relative lack of cover, but it was fine unless you’re a brawler. I liked it for that reason. The Yin to Solaris City’s Yang… one punished short range specialists, one punished lurm specialists.

So my vote… keep old HPG dead. Bring back old caustic and old polar with multiple Dom circles and spawns. Give that same treatment to Alpine Peaks so battles happen on more parts of the map.

[martian]

Herod, on 27 March 2022 - 03:41 PM, said:

It plays very differently from the remake. No reason they both can't be in the rotation. Please and Thank you.

I still think that PGI should keep both the old maps and the reworked maps in rotation. Let the players decide what map they would like to play on.

Is not this the purpose of the map voting system?

[LordNothing]

ScrapIron Prime, on 27 March 2022 - 08:12 PM, said:

Partly disagree. Old Caustic and HPG were terrible maps. The only possible game play was ring-around-the-middle. You could have fixed Caustic by making two more domination circles so it randomized WHERE the fight happened in that game play mode, but there’s no option to do that with old HPG, so it had to go.

Old Polar Highlands was better, a very versatile map that never had a fight in the same location twice… except for Domination, but you could have fixed that too with more Dom circles and matching spawn points. A lot of people didn’t like it’s relative lack of cover, but it was fine unless you’re a brawler. I liked it for that reason. The Yin to Solaris City’s Yang… one punished short range specialists, one punished lurm specialists.

So my vote… keep old HPG dead. Bring back old caustic and old polar with multiple Dom circles and spawns. Give that same treatment to Alpine Peaks so battles happen on more parts of the map.

seems you have more a problem with the domination mode than the maps themselves.

i always felt domination was too simplistic. what i think should have been done is to take the generators, and put small circles around them. you could then use those positions to block cap so long as the generators (lets call them jammers) are not dead. this would enable you to set up a more precarious position closer to your spawn or provide a fallback in case you fail to hold the main circle. this kind of thing would especially be better on the fp version of the mode. for those situations where one side makes an aggressive push to block the far end of the circle, it would provide a way to stay in the match. you might have to move those jammers out a ways from the circle or provide more than four. you would not be able to cap with the jammers unless you held both of them simultaneously, provided the enemy are not blocking.

[Gagis]

We have too many similar remakes in rotation already.

Which version of Frozen City or Forest Colony you would like to play today?

[East Indy]

pbiggz, on 27 March 2022 - 07:09 PM, said:

it was a brainless nascar donut. .

It was the most popular map in the game.

At some point, a game is what players enjoy and not some abstract know-better vision.

[Curccu]

Yep yep Classic HPG and Mordor back to rotation.

[TheCaptainJZ]

I'd like to see more HPG installations actually in different configurations. I wish we had a half-dozen maps set on each planet.

[pbiggz]

East Indy, on 28 March 2022 - 05:57 AM, said:

It was the most popular map in the game.

At some point, a game is what players enjoy and not some abstract know-better vision.

"Popular" doesn't mean good.

People gravitate towards easy rewards. Old HPG was just that; a senseless nascar donut that allowed for thoughtless repeated play with almost any build save for snipers, with little in the way of visual or environmental hazards to interfere with play.

The people throwing the biggest hissy fits about it are the ones who are now being asked to exercise a modicum of critical thinking. New HPG has enough variation in it to mix up matches. People can't just autopilot around the center and expect a win, and the people harping on this most are the people who think they're entitled to do that.

Their repeated complaints on the "sniper problem" demonstrate exactly that sense of entitlement, they aren't complaining because snipers are OP, they're complaining because snipers exist. They don't believe they should be burdened with worrying about them at all; the perches, whose existence is obviously "sniper favouritism" given their twisted view of the game, are an object of special hatred for them.

New HPG is objectively a superior map to the old one, the only people who disagree are the people who think they're entitled to have the game warp around their own preferred style of play. They do not argue or debate in good faith, and we shouldn't be giving them the time of day, whether its about maps, or groups, or lights, or anything else.

[Herod]

"The only people who disagree (with me) are the people who think they're entitled to have the game warp around their own preferred style of play."

You must be a lot of fun at parties.

I didn't suggest they take the map -you- prefer out of the rotation, I requested that -both- maps be available. We all deal with maps we don't like. I enjoyed HPG quite a bit; you would survive having to play it once in awhile too.

H

[pbiggz]

Herod, on 28 March 2022 - 03:50 PM, said:

"The only people who disagree (with me) are the people who think they're entitled to have the game warp around their own preferred style of play."

You must be a lot of fun at parties.

I didn't suggest they take the map -you- prefer out of the rotation, I requested that -both- maps be available. We all deal with maps we don't like. I enjoyed HPG quite a bit; you would survive having to play it once in awhile too.

H

You seem to practice a little more discretion than most, so i'll ask you to forgive me for the over-generalization. Still I firmly believe that the new HPG plays differently, and vastly better than the old, and clinging to that old one does harm to the game in the long term, by giving people opportunities to cling to outdated builds and bad strategies, and giving them an opportunity to avoid having to think critically and up their games.

Consider how many maps we dont see, like new caustic for example (it has actual issues that need to be addressed, not all the reworks are good by definition). People don't vote for other maps because they like them better, they vote against caustic. Put HPG back in, and people will swap back to their old reliable nascar builds, and vote old HPG at every chance just because its easy money, and they get to vote against the reworks, because those actually make them think.

Best that we leave it in the past.

Edited by pbiggz, 28 March 2022 - 07:33 PM.

[Bud Crue]

pbiggz, on 28 March 2022 - 07:32 PM, said:

You seem to practice a little more discretion than most, so i'll ask you to forgive me for the over-generalization. Still I firmly believe that the new HPG plays differently, and vastly better than the old, and clinging to that old one does harm to the game in the long term, by giving people opportunities to cling to outdated builds and bad strategies, and giving them an opportunity to avoid having to think critically and up their games.

Consider how many maps we dont see, like new caustic for example (it has actual issues that need to be addressed, not all the reworks are good by definition). People don't vote for other maps because they like them better, they vote against caustic. Put HPG back in, and people will swap back to their old reliable nascar builds, and vote old HPG at every chance just because its easy money, and they get to vote against the reworks, because those actually make them think.

Best that we leave it in the past.

There is no question that new HPG "plays differently" than old HPG, but how does a single map, even if I agree with your premise that THEE most popular map in the game was an objectively bad map, force or even encourage players to "cling to outdated builds and bad strategies" or prevent them from having to "avoid having to think critically and up their games"? What super inventive build and game upping techniques does new HPG encourage that old HPG didn't afford? What brilliant strategy is being consistently applied to new HPG that was impossible to utilize on old HPG? Sure there is less NASCAR around the center, but there is way more wall snipping and basement camping than there ever was before. Are those suddenly considered "good" strategies?

[Mechteric]

pbiggz, on 27 March 2022 - 07:09 PM, said:

it was a brainless nascar donut. No thanks. Ill take the map that actually makes you think.

exactly this, the new map at least provides options, if you don't like the snipers there are ways to obscure your approach to them, or just sent some fast brawly mechs to harass them since they usually are out there more or less alone

[Nightbird]

Why not let the voters decide what is better?

[Extra Guac]

pbiggz, on 27 March 2022 - 07:09 PM, said:

it was a brainless nascar donut. No thanks. Ill take the map that actually makes you think.

That's really not true. You could take the top, or take the bottom. A donut implies that you couldn't occupy the center of the map.