247 replies to this topic

[TheCaptainJZ]

Dogstar, on 23 June 2022 - 12:40 AM, said:

I've missed out the ERPPC because I can't remember it's stats offhand but the same principle should apply

IS ERPPC would be the same as PPC.
I don't think LPPCs need splash damage. SNPPC should have the largest splash damage as a short range weapon. I like the idea of PPC splash conceptionally--I wonder if this would degrade game engine performance because it has to do more calculations?

Edited by TheCaptainJZ, 23 June 2022 - 11:50 AM.

[Heavy Money]

TheCaptainJZ, on 23 June 2022 - 11:48 AM, said:

IS ERPPC would be the same as PPC.
I don't think LPPCs need splash damage. SNPPC should have the largest splash damage as a short range weapon. I like the idea of PPC splash conceptionally--I wonder if this would degrade game engine performance because it has to do more calculations?

Its basically irrelevant to performance as the "splash" is just adding damage to adjacent components. Its not actually calculating proximity splash like a modern game would.

[LordNothing]

Heavy Money, on 23 June 2022 - 01:29 PM, said:

Its basically irrelevant to performance as the "splash" is just adding damage to adjacent components. Its not actually calculating proximity splash like a modern game would.

even that would be fairly computationally simple to do. the big part of collision detection is comparing every bounding box with every other bounding box and see what overlaps. thats n^2 complexity, every object you add effectively doubles the number of things you need to check. when a collision is detected then that trips collision response where actions are taken place, hitpoints applied, etc. thats just n1 as you only need to handle a list of events.

Edited by LordNothing, 23 June 2022 - 05:40 PM.

[Dogstar]

TheCaptainJZ, on 23 June 2022 - 11:48 AM, said:

IS ERPPC would be the same as PPC.
I don't think LPPCs need splash damage. SNPPC should have the largest splash damage as a short range weapon. I like the idea of PPC splash conceptionally--I wonder if this would degrade game engine performance because it has to do more calculations?

Thanks.

As the engine already handles LBX shots that can hit (or miss) individual components i doubt it would be a problem.

I'd also guess that the code is more like:

ppc left torso hit registered => do splash damage to LA & CT

Rather than complicated hit box registration code

Edited by Dogstar, 24 June 2022 - 01:51 AM.

[Meep Meep]

So if you hit the ct with a splash weapon how does it figure out which side torso or legs or the head to spread the damage to since a fresh mech will have five connections to the ct? Random?

[LordNothing]

Meep Meep, on 24 June 2022 - 02:01 AM, said:

So if you hit the ct with a splash weapon how does it figure out which side torso or legs or the head to spread the damage to since a fresh mech will have five connections to the ct? Random?

you hit the lt, and there are only 3 adjacent components, la, ll and ct. pick 2 (there is probibly a dice roll involved or some priority rule, probibly the former because lore). all the mechs are put together the same way so each component has a short list of adjacent components that can be damaged. the sts have the most things connected to it so i figure thats where you want to aim to use all the spread. things like arms, legs and the head all have only one adjacent, so it will throw away the second splash call in that case. ct wont splash to the head, i think its excluded, but a hit to the head should spread to the ct and nothing else.

at least thats how i understand it.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Meep Meep, on 24 June 2022 - 02:01 AM, said:

So if you hit the ct with a splash weapon how does it figure out which side torso or legs or the head to spread the damage to since a fresh mech will have five connections to the ct? Random?

It's determined in a fixed way. Shoot arm, splash to connected ST (other splash to the air is just lost damage). Shoot leg, splash to connected ST (and again lost damage to the ground). Hit CT, only splash LT and RT. I suppose if these are destroyed, the splash would apply to CT at the 40% transfer rate (so not much extra damage).
The patch notes on the introduction of the Clan ERPPC, or a dev post around that time, should explain the coding they went with.

Edited by TheCaptainJZ, 24 June 2022 - 05:47 AM.

[Crohnic]

I like the proposed changes.

[Navid A1]

Dogstar, on 23 June 2022 - 12:40 AM, said:

Rather than increasing base damage I'd like to see all PPCs doing splash damage instead. Adding or increasing splash damage to all PPCs would make the wepon type have a unique and interesting feature and allow it be balanced to do more damage overall without increasing the deadliness of PPFLD boats.

The C-ERPPC with it's 2.5+10+2.5 is an excellent example as is the SNPPC

A 20% increase for the (IS) ones would be would be about right:

PPC to 1+10+1
HPPC to 1.5+15+1.5
LPPC to 0.5+5+0.5

I've missed out the ERPPC because I can't remember it's stats offhand but the same principle should apply

Splash is also a potential alternative to consider instead of more pinpoint.

Good pool of ideas and feedback to help us discuss this.

[Meep Meep]

I think all ppc should get splash since the plasma ball is supposed to explode on impact? Also turn them back into high risk high reward sniper weapons instead of pewpew cannons since they seem to now occupy what used to be the realm of projectiles with a carveout for snubs of course? Splash for all ppc would help with that by upping total alpha but reducing pinpoint(i.e. instead of say 2.5-10-2.5 use 4-7-4 then you can change the rof and heat to allow for higher numbers overall) so you can slow down rof and increase heat so you can't spam them anymore. Most openish maps now are a crisscross of interleaving ppc spam and blulazorz.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Navid A1, on 25 June 2022 - 07:53 PM, said:

Splash is also a potential alternative to consider instead of more pinpoint.

Good pool of ideas and feedback to help us discuss this.

Yes, if you're considering dropping a regular PPC to Max 2 without ghost heat, then rather than boost their pinpoint to compensate, add splash. that would help prevent 2xPPC builds from becoming too powerful and would give incentive to go to 2xHPPC from there.

[Seelenlos]

I think Caulderon sh-t on MWO with SN-PPC!

Had a match, nearly EVERYBODY had SN-PPC! THIS is not more MWO connected to BattleTech, this is CS-MWO-SN-PPC-MMO-Game!

Sorry, all cards on table and rebalance all Weapons, so every weapon gets its role back!

[PocketYoda]

Make it so light mechs can use light gauss..

[ThreeStooges]

Nomad Tech, on 17 July 2022 - 07:39 PM, said:

Make it so light mechs can use light gauss..

Several IS ones can if you risk using the is xl engines and only have half to one ton ammo. The pnt-10p would be great at it if it could fit one with all the range and speed quirks it has. Clan adr can mount the ac 20.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Nomad Tech, on 17 July 2022 - 07:39 PM, said:

Make it so light mechs can use light gauss..

Heck, we've been using regular gauss on Ravens for a long time. Now it even has an ammo quirk. A light gauss would be even easier!

https://mwo.nav-alph...375752fd_RVN-4X

[w0qj]

Perhaps ammo quirks for IS Light mechs, so that they can use Light-Gauss?
(similar to ammo quirks for Kit Fox, Adder, etc. etc.)

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Regular PPC and Heavy PPC both need a real role carved out for them. Maybe it’s buffs, maybe it’s slight nerfs to other members of the PPC family that are currently being overused as they are over performing.

If anything we need to look at velocity reduction for PPC family and maybe gauss. With the new skill tree it’s super easy to get to 15% velocity buff’s and with such high base velocities (and then some mechs with quirks) we basically have hit-scan weapons now …even at medium and long range, which is part of why LPPC’s and now snubs are so popular. It’s probably too easy to land shots now with where velocity is at….my opinion is to roll base velocities back 5-10% to account for the new skill tree. LPPC’s and snubs needed some love, but they seem a bit overtuned if their sudden popularity with the player base is anything to go by.

[Ihlrath]

I love this line of thinking....

LRMs, garbage.
Streaks, garbage.
ATMs, very niche, otherwise garbage.
Clan autocannons, jam every other shot.


Cauldron: Hey guys we're thinking about buffing long range again!

[HammerMaster]

Find some way some how to remove gauss charge for mechs NOT linking PPC+Gauss. Stop punishing me for using gauss at all. All or nothing. As long as gauss has charge. I'm out.

[ScrapIron Prime]

HammerMaster, on 18 July 2022 - 05:00 PM, said:

Find some way some how to remove gauss charge for mechs NOT linking PPC+Gauss. Stop punishing me for using gauss at all. All or nothing. As long as gauss has charge. I'm out.

Well you can't have two different firing mechanisms for the same weapon dependant on what ELSE you have in the mech, that would be insanity.

But I hear ya, I don't like gauss charge either, so I tend to stick to autocannons.