247 replies to this topic

[An6ryMan69]

MyriadDigits, on 21 July 2022 - 05:42 PM, said:

You don't even have a vague concept of what this game would actually be like without ghost heat do you?

I do.

I would be like a watered down version of the Event Queue events where heat is turned of in its entirety. You know, the events where you get into matches almost instantly because so many players are all over that kind of action.

And I'm not (quite) suggesting totally doing away with heat management in it's entirety. Just with this silly ghost heat stuff that is also apparently needing endless tinkering as it has very real effects on gameplay.

Don't forget that weapons still have cooldown times too - add cooldown times to "normal" weapon heat and that may very well be plenty to slow down matches to a reasonable pace.

It would not kill the game for the devs to turn off ghost heat for a month, as they do monthly patches anyway, and give it a shot.

Honestly.

[Curccu]

HammerMaster, on 22 July 2022 - 11:41 AM, said:

Hardpoints. See the Cataphract.

ctf-4x

[HammerMaster]

Curccu, on 22 July 2022 - 12:04 PM, said:

ctf-4x

NO. 3L

[Knownswift]

The Gauss charge mechanic is one of the best changes in this game and the series as a whole.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

HammerMaster, on 22 July 2022 - 11:41 AM, said:

Not bland to me and I have suggested a longer cooldown but hell forbid

A longer cooldown may be better balanced but it is definitely still bland. It is still a point and click PPFLD weapon.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

An6ryMan69, on 22 July 2022 - 11:59 AM, said:

I do.

I would be like a watered down version of the Event Queue events where heat is turned of in its entirety. You know, the events where you get into matches almost instantly because so many players are all over that kind of action.

And I'm not (quite) suggesting totally doing away with heat management in it's entirety. Just with this silly ghost heat stuff that is also apparently needing endless tinkering as it has very real effects on gameplay.

Don't forget that weapons still have cooldown times too - add cooldown times to "normal" weapon heat and that may very well be plenty to slow down matches to a reasonable pace.

It would not kill the game for the devs to turn off ghost heat for a month, as they do monthly patches anyway, and give it a shot.

Honestly.

I don't think you understand why Ghost Heat was introduced in the first place, it wasn't meant to necessarily slow down the game, but to manage boating. Now it did impact pacing of the game a little bit, but more so curbed range play from being stronger than it currently is. It also curbed the power of heavies and assaults since they generally have the tonnage to boat most of the problematic weapons (quad UAC10 Kodiak comes to mind).

Edit: adjusted wording on the "prevent" part

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 22 July 2022 - 01:24 PM.

[Knownswift]

Ghost heat was introduced to manage boating AND high alphas, it was never intended to prevent either.

[HammerMaster]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 22 July 2022 - 12:54 PM, said:

A longer cooldown may be better balanced but it is definitely still bland. It is still a point and click PPFLD weapon.

NO OTHER WEAPON IS RUN THIS WAY.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

HammerMaster, on 22 July 2022 - 02:08 PM, said:

NO OTHER WEAPON IS RUN THIS WAY.

No other weapons have this type of charge mechanic either, the question is which is more unique and the answer is definitely the firing behavior, not the excel spreadsheet type tweak.

[HammerMaster]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 22 July 2022 - 02:15 PM, said:

No other weapons have this type of charge mechanic either, the question is which is more unique and the answer is definitely the firing behavior, not the excel spreadsheet type tweak.

Nonetheless. You have not given an acceptable solution. I'm out.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

HammerMaster, on 22 July 2022 - 02:28 PM, said:

Nonetheless. You have not given an acceptable solution. I'm out.

That's quite the hand-wavy response...

[FupDup]

It's not Quickie's job to give an alternative to a mechanic he supports, because he doesn't WANT an alternative (I think?).

That's on you, Hammer. The pro-charge-up crowd wants Gauss to be unique from other PPFLD weapons somehow. If the charge-up were to go away, then that would mean replacing it with something else unique. Slow rate of fire isn't mechanically unique.

[HammerMaster]

FupDup, on 22 July 2022 - 03:29 PM, said:

I
That's on you, Hammer.

[MyriadDigits]

HammerMaster, on 22 July 2022 - 03:47 PM, said:

Yep. If you really want anybody to remove gauss charge you gotta convince people its a worthwhile change to make.

Edited by MyriadDigits, 22 July 2022 - 04:01 PM.

[HammerMaster]

MyriadDigits, on 22 July 2022 - 04:00 PM, said:

Yep. If you really want anybody to remove gauss charge you gotta convince people its a worthwhile change to make.

No it's fine. Keep incentivizing linking.

Edited by HammerMaster, 22 July 2022 - 04:05 PM.

[MyriadDigits]

HammerMaster, on 22 July 2022 - 04:05 PM, said:

No it's fine. Keep incentivizing linking.

I don't think charge incentivizes linking. I do agree that the charge makes Gauss feel distinct from Autocannons. And that feel is honestly just as important as balance.

[YueFei]

The Gauss charge mechanic introduces some interesting dynamics and play/counter-play possibilities.

E.g., you're peeking a corner, come face-to-face against a Dual Heavy Gauss user and rather than eating 50 PPFLD to the chest, you recognize the danger and have time to twist away to tank the hit on your shoulder.

Or maybe the DHG user anticipated your peek (Seismic!! or UAV!!), or they themselves were peeking the corner, and pre-charged the Gauss rifles and force-feed you an essentially heat-free 50 PPFLD burger into your gut.

[Hauptmann Keg Steiner]

If we're keeping Gauss charge around, can we at least get rid of Gauss explosions? The whole reason they explode is the capacitors that power the electromagnets. If we have to charge the fool things up every time we fire them, do they even any capacitors in them to explode?

[YueFei]

Hauptmann Keg Steiner, on 22 July 2022 - 04:26 PM, said:

If we're keeping Gauss charge around, can we at least get rid of Gauss explosions? The whole reason they explode is the capacitors that power the electromagnets. If we have to charge the fool things up every time we fire them, do they even any capacitors in them to explode?

Yeah, that and ammo explosions are honestly not fun mechanics in an FPS. Either to have it blow you up, or for it to cause the demise of an enemy you're shooting at.

It might be OK for a game where you control multiple units and the vagaries of RNG even-out over the course of a match, but not an FPS where you control a single unit.

I could still live with having Gauss and ammo blow up, but only if it was some consistent percentage, and a much smaller amount of damage (so that it doesn't always spell death or the complete destruction of the component it is mounted in).

[MyriadDigits]

YueFei, on 22 July 2022 - 04:33 PM, said:

I could still live with having Gauss and ammo blow up, but only if it was some consistent percentage, and a much smaller amount of damage (so that it doesn't always spell death or the complete destruction of the component it is mounted in).

tbf to gauss dets, component health kinda guarantees you're gonna lose a decent chunk of structure before the weapon crits out.

Ammo dets just suck though. You're dead as soon as that burn starts and there's literally nothing you can do about it.