182 replies to this topic

[caravann]

So that we can farm light mechs even further, no thanks. I see how this game works where medium and light mechs are free lunch targeted first since a kill is a score. The higher people keep promoting light mech further people put the eye of sauron on them.
85% is meaningless because 100% is all that matter.

Take example on how the game is balanced that at best you can get 10 meters of advantage of sitting at 1090 meters with a large pulse but only if a lot of IF's happens that the opponent has no computer or an active probe which is why a % increase of nothing is still nothing and the reason behind ER larger lasers are used. Because deprivation isn't going to help much when the opponent is shooting beyond the radar range and what mech class has the best radar in the game? = Assault has the best radar in the game with cyclop having a +150 meters radar range, second comes example Cougar with +100 radar range but has to sacrifice the ECM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Stab Wound said:

1661547706[/url]' post='6470148']

imho that's the beauty of it.
If you think it should be nerfed than maybe it should have a maximum per weight class?

Lights=85% max
Mediums=90% max
Heavy=95% max
Assault=100% max

Lower weight mechs just can't carry the same amount of equipment necessary to max it out. How's that for the explanation why?

No. It should be 75% across the board. Only mechs with Radar Dep quirks should be able to get higher. Makes the quirk meaningful, because the quirk as it currently exists is “1 free skill node, thx.”

75% dep is still less than 2 seconds target retention time even if the firer has all the target time nodes. That’s enough for one volley of missiles before you vanish… provided the missiles aren’t fired from 800m away… because then their travel time at current speed is 4 seconds…

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 27 August 2022 - 10:12 AM.

[Nightbird]

Most assault mechs don't take even take the nodes, they can tank a missile volley and get to cover. Lights on the other hand take it pretty often, and taking a missile volley can mean being open or legged.

Absolutely no to changing missile derp.

Unless you give all fast lights and mediums the radar derp quirks.

[martian]

Stab Wound, on 26 August 2022 - 01:01 PM, said:

If you think it should be nerfed than maybe it should have a maximum per weight class?

Lights=85% max
Mediums=90% max
Heavy=95% max
Assault=100% max

Because light 'Mechs are so powerful and armoured and plentiful in the game that they deserve such special nerf. Yeah!

Stab Wound, on 26 August 2022 - 01:01 PM, said:

Lower weight mechs just can't carry the same amount of equipment necessary to max it out. How's that for the explanation why?

Just an excuse to boost Assault 'Mechs.

[Nightbird]

Stab Wound, on 26 August 2022 - 01:01 PM, said:

Lights=85% max
Mediums=90% max
Heavy=95% max
Assault=100% max

Reversed, since assaults are the biggest and have the largest sensor signature...

Lights=100% max
Mediums=90% max
Heavy=80% max
Assault=70% max

Lights are scouts and have specialized anti-sensor design, larger mechs give no Fs, hows that for the explanation?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

While I do feel that missiles are shafted, undoing the nerfs against them without fixing the issues with them, just seems like the wrong approach. It's really unfortunate that this game is in maintenance mode because it means we never will get better lock-on mechanics and be able to remove the stupid mechanics all added to deter them.

[JC Daxion]

That sounds just fine, but it still should not be 100%. It completely negates any time nodes automatically which i don't think any skill should do.

An enemy you are actively chasing flashes out of site for a fraction of a second you loose your lock. People rolling over a hill for .2 secs.. Lock lost. People chasing a light as a light hunter and it round a corner on solaris and you are out of sight for a blink, lock lost. Any other weapon system people would still have there shot, sorry streak hunter that 200m Strait you are running down you can't fire you must regain your lock to fire.. Ohh sorry they are around the next corner.. just a .5 Or treb actively playing you gotta wait to fire for another 2 seconds on the mech you basically never stopped seeing as you are chasing them over the rolling hills down low on Frozen city.

Radar dep would still work when the light actively finds and uses cover or any mech for maybe a whole second or so. Hell half the time you blink out and loose a lock you can still see the mech, it's only the invisible hitbox that is making it lost. the 100% is an easy way to abuse the lock system plain and simple.

Streaks and LRM's are the worst weapons in the game and this is one of the biggest reasons.These weapons of course need to be balanced for the lower tiers but a small chance like not being 100% would still give people the bonus of the skill, while not making the enemies points, no mater how many they spend or what quirks the mech has an instant loss like they didn't have a single node.

[sosegado]

Nightbird, on 27 August 2022 - 11:54 PM, said:

Reversed, since assaults are the biggest and have the largest sensor signature...

Lights=100% max
Mediums=90% max
Heavy=80% max
Assault=70% max

Lights are scouts and have specialized anti-sensor design, larger mechs give no Fs, hows that for the explanation?

I think most are missing the part where I said that I, personally, do not want it nerfed at all.

I favored the breakdown the way I did because speed is armor. Lights can juke and in some rare cases literally outrun the missiles.

My assaults can't outrun the missiles which is why I love the radar depravation the way it is. Don't nerf please!

p.s. when anyone gets the warning that missiles are incoming they have no way of knowing whether or not it's 5 lrm's from a single mech or a chainfire from 5 lrm 20's on one these new lrm monster mechs! Or nightmare scenario ...3 of those 100 tube monsters! I get the warning and the race is on to break the lock. No looking back to see how many are coming. There may have been a time when I would agree with no 100% radar depravation. Not these days.

Edited by Stab Wound, 30 August 2022 - 08:12 AM.

[1453 R]

I really don't see how limiting RaDerp to 80% or so without quirks is going to break the game. At extreme range that's still more than enough time to disappear before missiles reach you, and in closer quarters you have the ability to punch the missile platform in the mouth and challenge him to twist (and lose lock) or stare and die. We want to encourage more active use of LRMs and other lockon weapons, right? Make it harder for the dinguses sitting eight hundred meters away from the fight behind three hills and a Dunkin' Donuts throwing poo at every half-assed lock they can waggle their Stalkernova's nose at whilst trying to shift emphasis to to close fire support?

Wouldn't this be a step towards doing so? RaDerp would be just as important against long-range poo-flinging turdburglars but less effective against people using the weapons properly, and it'd eliminate weird jank where a 'Mech hides behind a ficas tree and locks fall off of it for no reason save buggy code. Except for quirked 'Mechs, but I don't imagine most people know even know which 'Mechs have RaDerp quirks given how pointless they are.

[ScrapIron Prime]

1453 R, on 30 August 2022 - 07:41 AM, said:

I really don't see how limiting RaDerp to 80% or so without quirks is going to break the game. At extreme range that's still more than enough time to disappear before missiles reach you, and in closer quarters you have the ability to punch the missile platform in the mouth and challenge him to twist (and lose lock) or stare and die. We want to encourage more active use of LRMs and other lockon weapons, right? Make it harder for the dinguses sitting eight hundred meters away from the fight behind three hills and a Dunkin' Donuts throwing poo at every half-assed lock they can waggle their Stalkernova's nose at whilst trying to shift emphasis to to close fire support?

Wouldn't this be a step towards doing so? RaDerp would be just as important against long-range poo-flinging turdburglars but less effective against people using the weapons properly, and it'd eliminate weird jank where a 'Mech hides behind a ficas tree and locks fall off of it for no reason save buggy code. Except for quirked 'Mechs, but I don't imagine most people know even know which 'Mechs have RaDerp quirks given how pointless they are.

I think so. The limit would still allow you to disappear from LRM mechs operating at near maximum range, thus avoiding "sky cancer". But it would enable LRM mechs operating at 300-500 meters to get a shot in every now and again, because as it stands the weapon system is essentially useless above Tier 3 unless you have a dedicated spotter and are team dropping.

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 30 August 2022 - 08:13 AM.

[feeWAIVER]

How bout we not nerf everything so it's equally broken, unreliable, and bad?
Do missiles need buffed? Maybe.
Does that mean Derp needs nerfed? No.

[LordNothing]

1453 R, on 30 August 2022 - 07:41 AM, said:

I really don't see how limiting RaDerp to 80% or so without quirks is going to break the game. At extreme range that's still more than enough time to disappear before missiles reach you, and in closer quarters you have the ability to punch the missile platform in the mouth and challenge him to twist (and lose lock) or stare and die. We want to encourage more active use of LRMs and other lockon weapons, right? Make it harder for the dinguses sitting eight hundred meters away from the fight behind three hills and a Dunkin' Donuts throwing poo at every half-assed lock they can waggle their Stalkernova's nose at whilst trying to shift emphasis to to close fire support?

Wouldn't this be a step towards doing so? RaDerp would be just as important against long-range poo-flinging turdburglars but less effective against people using the weapons properly, and it'd eliminate weird jank where a 'Mech hides behind a ficas tree and locks fall off of it for no reason save buggy code. Except for quirked 'Mechs, but I don't imagine most people know even know which 'Mechs have RaDerp quirks given how pointless they are.

should also point out that you can pick up the target retention if you play your lerms/atms closer to the targets. i use it on my atm boats to let me twist off damage without losing lock. i play very close to the min range too, its alarming how few players realize they can step forward a couple paces in my direction and avoid all the damage.

im for limiting the derp so it doesn't go to 100% without quirks. quirks can easily be handed out to mechs that are particularly vulnerable to missiles or your typical streak platforms.

Edited by LordNothing, 30 August 2022 - 12:36 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

feeWAIVER, on 30 August 2022 - 10:31 AM, said:

How bout we not nerf everything so it's equally broken, unreliable, and bad?
Do missiles need buffed? Maybe.
Does that mean Derp needs nerfed? No.

Okay, how would you propose buffing lock-on missiles to the point that they can hit anything with the current state of ECM + Derp?

IMO, a velocity increase plus a spread buff would help with dead-firing them, but if you want lock-ons to work then I think retaining a lock for less than 2 seconds would be warranted, and that would take an adjustment to Radar Deprivation.

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 30 August 2022 - 12:39 PM.

[Nightbird]

ScrapIron Prime, on 30 August 2022 - 12:36 PM, said:

Okay, how would you propose buffing lock-on missiles to the point that they can hit anything with the current state of ECM + Derp?

IMO, a velocity increase plus a spread buff would help with dead-firing them, but if you want lock-ons to work then I think retaining a lock for less than 2 seconds would be warranted, and that would take an adjustment to Radar Deprivation.

Reduce lock time to 0 but reduce missile speed by 50%. Get that tag on target and you can lock and shoot, but if the target is behind cover and also run radar derp, they've outmaneuvered this no-aim lock-on weapon.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Nightbird, on 30 August 2022 - 12:46 PM, said:

Reduce lock time to 0 but reduce missile speed by 50%.

Disagree strongly. LRM speeds are only 200m/s currently. You reduce them like that and it will be possible to OUTRUN them. At that point, they might as well be little helicopter drones instead of missiles.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

ScrapIron Prime, on 30 August 2022 - 12:36 PM, said:

Okay, how would you propose buffing lock-on missiles to the point that they can hit anything with the current state of ECM + Derp?

IMO, a velocity increase plus a spread buff would help with dead-firing them, but if you want lock-ons to work then I think retaining a lock for less than 2 seconds would be warranted, and that would take an adjustment to Radar Deprivation.

Remove indirect fire, turn missiles back to fire and forget, remove ability to reduce detection range from ECM mechs and/or give missiles the ability to target lock like MW4 (requires reticle to actually be on the mech but does not require target to be on radar). Bonus points for making missiles target the bone of the mech the reticle is on when fired (or random bones if the reticle isn't on the mech).

In other words, learn from MW4 and make missiles require skill.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 30 August 2022 - 12:55 PM.

[Nightbird]

ScrapIron Prime, on 30 August 2022 - 12:51 PM, said:

Disagree strongly. LRM speeds are only 200m/s currently. You reduce them like that and it will be possible to OUTRUN them. At that point, they might as well be little helicopter drones instead of missiles.

Name one mech that runs faster than 50m/s.

[LordNothing]

its close enough. missiles doing 180kph (50 m/s) will be able to catch up, but not fast enough to hit you before you get out of range. a commando can do 155kph (43m/s) with an xl240. at 50m/s the travel time for a missile to max range is 18s, a commando can cover the same distance in 21s. actually the minimum distance between the commando and the lerm boat in which the commando can out run the missiles is 129 meters, inside the minimum range.

though its likely you will lose a few seconds figuring out which direction to run and to accelerate away. and if you are that close, its probibly better to run at the missile boat and get a free kill. also ignoring terrrain features which might trip you up, but which are also are a lot easier for a small mech to use for cover.

Edited by LordNothing, 30 August 2022 - 01:54 PM.

[Nightbird]

LordNothing, on 30 August 2022 - 01:49 PM, said:

its close enough. missiles doing 180kph (50 m/s) will be able to catch up, but not fast enough to hit you before you get out of range. a commando can do 155kph (43m/s) with an xl240. at 50m/s the travel time for a missile to max range is 18s, a commando can cover the same distance in 21s. actually the minimum distance between the commando and the lerm boat in which the commando can out run the missiles is 129 meters, inside the minimum range.

though its likely you will lose a few seconds figuring out which direction to run and to accelerate away. and if you are that close, its probibly better to run at the missile boat and get a free kill. also ignoring terrrain features which might trip you up, but which are also are a lot easier for a small mech to use for cover.

Where do you get missiles doing 50m/s from? 200m/s nerfed 50% is still 100m/s. Added quirks and nodes it's 125m/s.

[LordNothing]

Nightbird, on 30 August 2022 - 02:10 PM, said:

Where do you get missiles doing 50m/s from? 200m/s nerfed 50% is still 100m/s. Added quirks and nodes it's 125m/s.

Nightbird, on 30 August 2022 - 01:03 PM, said:

Name one mech that runs faster than 50m/s.