236 replies to this topic

[-K H A N]

Actually I take back what I said about FP being all good.It has been mostly a kill team vs a pug team. Going to give it 1 more week then MWO is on the deletion pile. Not alot of point to FP and I would recomend people who are curious to try it just dont.Its not worth the wait or the effort.

[pbiggz]

-K H A N, on 10 December 2022 - 06:44 PM, said:

Actually I take back what I said about FP being all good.It has been mostly a kill team vs a pug team. Going to give it 1 more week then MWO is on the deletion pile. Not alot of point to FP and I would recomend people who are curious to try it just dont.Its not worth the wait or the effort.

FP is extremely hostile to solos and it pretty much requires large units to survive; a thing phase 3 specifically aimed at invalidating. You'll have a much better time in quick play, but then you don't get any of FP's cool features, which is a shame.

[feeWAIVER]

Bumping because they are talking about doing it. Just do it, PGI.

[MrTBSC]

feeWAIVER, on 11 March 2023 - 07:28 AM, said:

Bumping because they are talking about doing it. Just do it, PGI.

too much of a necro and .. it´s NOT confirmed .. it´s been considered only

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

and it's a bad idea to even consider.

if you thought the "meta" was lacking in diversity and you see the same stuff all over
-wait till you can get to choose a mech that fits the map/mission.

we have it in faction, and it has a place there for several reasons.
otoh there's a metric ton of reasons why it won't work for QP. at least not positively.

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 12 March 2023 - 12:26 PM.

[JediPanther]

Drop decks in qp will be the best way to kill the game bar taking a sledgehammer to the server. People complain about the meta now in qp wait til decks add even more to it and one side will totally farm the other side that has less meta and no/poorer coms. That bull **** is why I quit fp and the unit I was in abandoned fp completely after a few months of playing fp.

[Bud Crue]

MrTBSC, on 12 March 2023 - 11:47 AM, said:

too much of a necro and .. it´s NOT confirmed .. it´s been considered only

In the last NGNG video, both Matt and Daeron mentioned the idea not just in terms of a possibility, but as something that they seem to think will be popular (based on input they have received regarding event queue drop decks) and beneficial to the game to the extent that Matt even suggested that it might be a better use of the limited engineering resources that they have to try and institute drop decks in QP rather than to try an improve the match maker (the latter being something the community has been asking for for longer than event queue has existed).

For a mere consideration, they seem to be leaning toward toward it awfully hard (if they can make it work).

[Kynesis]

Curccu, on 04 December 2022 - 03:05 AM, said:

Now you are assuming that all group players are super highend T1s and solos are T5s, I have been on solo side in FP multiple times and totally wrecked premade with few other skilled solos and other not that awesome but still that followed lead decently.

It may surprise you to learn that the experience of a talented & long time T1 player differs from that of most other people.

[Kynesis]

I thought that the topics of drop decks and potentially respawns of some kind wouldn't be terribly controversial. It's interesting to see that jus about everyone has a different opinion & some similar opinions have opposing caveats.

This is a perfect example of why features need to be discussed and tested publically before being implemented.

[LordNothing]

decks in qp would be nice, but since this thread was a thing, we got event queue. it does show that people want decked modes without the baggage that comes with fp.

one thing quick play has been lacking is quickness. you play nothing but qp and you will be spending half the time in game waiting for matches to start. then have map voting, and waiting for everyone to connect. decks solve that problem but then you need a longer game clock, so its still not qp. perhaps qp needs to be 8v8, or even 4v4 when wait times are over 5 minutes, on smaller maps without voting.

enable map voting in eq when the mode calls for it. maybe in fp, with randomized attack/defend (one thing that makes fp so dull, other than the constant attrition play and the skittle farming, is doing the same map over and over again ad nauseum). one thing that could be done pretty easily is to keep eq open in decked modes when its not in use. qp becomes the mode where you just want to play now, and fp gets a bit of an upgrade.

[Curccu]

Kynesis, on 12 March 2023 - 07:09 PM, said:

It may surprise you to learn that the experience of a talented & long time T1 player differs from that of most other people.

Unable to understand your reply to my previous quote to sycocys.

[feeWAIVER]

LordNothing, on 12 March 2023 - 09:36 PM, said:

decks solve that problem but then you need a longer game clock, so its still not qp.

You don't need a longer game clock.
Let the time run out with mechs on the field.
We don't have to kill every single mech, that's the point.

[Hunka Junk]

I support it.

I want more play time.

The only problem I see is new people not having a clue how to play this game.

[LordNothing]

feeWAIVER, on 13 March 2023 - 06:47 AM, said:

You don't need a longer game clock.
Let the time run out with mechs on the field.
We don't have to kill every single mech, that's the point.

even then most qp matches do not consume the whole clock. games over 10 minutes are pretty rare and usually end in a decisive victory. you will find a whole lot of matches end in a time out, which imho is kind of a buzz kill. if you only use decks for mech select only you will probibly increase artificial wait times by another 10-30 seconds (probibly on the vote result screen before the games starts to load). its nothing when compared to the mm time, but the delays add up.

with respawn you also got to factor in the 90 or so seconds on the dropship counter and you have to be synced up with that too. seems a single mech drop pod would be a better animation and it could only take 15-30 seconds to spawn. besides its silly to send an entire leopard to drop one mech. and you can streamline the experience by keeping the map size down, so you spend a lot less time walking/waiting. if the drop pods can be made dynamic, perhaps be able to select what grid you want to land on, provided your team controls the grid and there are no enemies within it or adjacent grids. then you could speed up the action considerably. it also opens the door for things like being able to cap a forward spawn or being able to land at a capped location in conquest.

Edited by LordNothing, 13 March 2023 - 12:31 PM.

[pbiggz]

So long as it is easier to just slaughter the enemy team objectives dont matter.

Putting drop decks in and leaving all other things as is pretty much makes objectives matter right away. If you dont win on the objective the 10 minute timer will decide the winner.

This is not a nightmare horror scenario that will ruin the game, it just might fix serious issues we have been living with since the beginning.

[feeWAIVER]

LordNothing, on 13 March 2023 - 12:24 PM, said:

even then most qp matches do not consume the whole clock. games over 10 minutes are pretty rare and usually end in a decisive victory. you will find a whole lot of matches end in a time out, which imho is kind of a buzz kill. if you only use decks for mech select only you will probibly increase artificial wait times by another 10-30 seconds (probibly on the vote result screen before the games starts to load). its nothing when compared to the mm time, but the delays add up.

On larger maps, it's easy for 5 minutes to pass before the potato assaults even catch up to a firing position.
It's a lot harder to lose 4 mechs in 15 minutes than 1.

After waiting for matchmaker and load screens, as you say, would it not be good for everyone to have drop deck respawns during the 15 minute match- so they can play the whole match?

When we play with drop decks you can more easily/likely come back from a game you've been losing the entire match, by pushing in the last 2 minutes and trying to get a kill lead when the clock runs out.

Drop Decks will change the meta. They can frequently adjust weight limits to encourage people to switch up their decks, and try (buy) other mechs.

A good use of an engineers time would be to enable multiple drop decks, like faction play has, to promote sales for additional drop decks. I would guess the majority of players never had a reason to buy an additional drop deck. That's money PGI is leaving on the table.

It's a net positive for everyone to do it. It will change the meta and rejuvenate the game, and it will promote sales and experimentation from players.

Edited by feeWAIVER, 13 March 2023 - 07:31 PM.

[Anjian]

LordNothing, on 13 March 2023 - 12:24 PM, said:

even then most qp matches do not consume the whole clock. games over 10 minutes are pretty rare and usually end in a decisive victory. you will find a whole lot of matches end in a time out, which imho is kind of a buzz kill. if you only use decks for mech select only you will probibly increase artificial wait times by another 10-30 seconds (probibly on the vote result screen before the games starts to load). its nothing when compared to the mm time, but the delays add up.

with respawn you also got to factor in the 90 or so seconds on the dropship counter and you have to be synced up with that too. seems a single mech drop pod would be a better animation and it could only take 15-30 seconds to spawn. besides its silly to send an entire leopard to drop one mech. and you can streamline the experience by keeping the map size down, so you spend a lot less time walking/waiting. if the drop pods can be made dynamic, perhaps be able to select what grid you want to land on, provided your team controls the grid and there are no enemies within it or adjacent grids. then you could speed up the action considerably. it also opens the door for things like being able to cap a forward spawn or being able to land at a capped location in conquest.

You don't need a 90 second pause. Every game I have seen a drop deck with multiple respawns lets you drop as soon as you pick your next mech or tank. Depending on game modes, you do have a choice where to drop.

Maps are also kept small but well designed to allow avenues for both brawl and snipe.

There are games that already thought these things out.

feeWAIVER, on 13 March 2023 - 06:47 AM, said:

You don't need a longer game clock.
Let the time run out with mechs on the field.
We don't have to kill every single mech, that's the point.

And this.

feeWAIVER, on 13 March 2023 - 06:47 AM, said:

You don't need a longer game clock.
Let the time run out with mechs on the field.
We don't have to kill every single mech, that's the point.

And this.

Unless its some kind of team deathmatch, where at the end of 10 minutes, who kills the most number of mechs wins, many games with dropdecks will still have existing mechs or tanks by the end of 10 minutes so it matters who achieves the most objectives, e.g. point capping.

[Rondoe]

I didn't read this whole thread, just parts here and there.

So we have Quick Play, Faction Play, and event Q.

Why not just add another mode. I don't know what to call it. but it could be the same as quick play but with a drop deck. Same MM parameters with the PSR tiers. I know they said they are looking under the hood with the MM. They added Event Q so a new mode shouldn't be a problem.

Gives some more diversity to what people have time for or want to do. Solaris is gone, so they could just ad this in as another option.

Just my thoughts. Variety is the spice of life. Modes, mechs, dropdecks. One argument I see is the size of the player base may not be able to handle this. Hell It might just bring people back and/or draw in new players who hate timers and want some in your face quick battle without all the wait time.

[LordNothing]

Anjian, on 27 March 2023 - 10:42 PM, said:

You don't need a 90 second pause. Every game I have seen a drop deck with multiple respawns lets you drop as soon as you pick your next mech or tank. Depending on game modes, you do have a choice where to drop.

Maps are also kept small but well designed to allow avenues for both brawl and snipe.

There are games that already thought these things out.



And this.



And this.

Unless its some kind of team deathmatch, where at the end of 10 minutes, who kills the most number of mechs wins, many games with dropdecks will still have existing mechs or tanks by the end of 10 minutes so it matters who achieves the most objectives, e.g. point capping.

it can work, but the devil is in the details. details that will have to be implemented by pgi (its pretty irrelevant to highlight how other devs do things, pgi is going to do it the pgi way, we can point to good examples but they are unlikely to be used). it also depends on what way they wish to go. the single drop mech select route has different problems from the whole deck multi-drop approach. the former can i figure add at most 15 seconds to the post vote screen, and you can just use the leopards (and i think it would be interesting to be able to chose lz from a few options to mix up the matches a bit).

when using the full deck the delays from the existing cyclic dropship "schedule" means that when you die you have at most one cycle of the drop ship schedule to go through, and probibly also a minimum wait time to prevent insta-drops. im not sure if its 90 seconds, but it does seem like that sometimes. also the dynamic drop pod (rather than the scheduled drop), will give players the smallest possible drop delay, and being dynamic gives you a significantly shorter walk, by virtue of being able to drop near your team. you can step up the time table significantly with that feature, and you can still call your mode quickplay.

[LordNothing]

Rondoe, on 28 March 2023 - 12:32 AM, said:

I didn't read this whole thread, just parts here and there.

So we have Quick Play, Faction Play, and event Q.

Why not just add another mode. I don't know what to call it. but it could be the same as quick play but with a drop deck. Same MM parameters with the PSR tiers. I know they said they are looking under the hood with the MM. They added Event Q so a new mode shouldn't be a problem.

Gives some more diversity to what people have time for or want to do. Solaris is gone, so they could just ad this in as another option.

Just my thoughts. Variety is the spice of life. Modes, mechs, dropdecks. One argument I see is the size of the player base may not be able to handle this. Hell It might just bring people back and/or draw in new players who hate timers and want some in your face quick battle without all the wait time.

eq does show that decked modes work for the masses. i think my main problem is if you do a full featured mode, then its no longer quick play. the time to run a full deck is just not there, and presently things like map voting and match making slow it down. i think there is a place for a quick and dirty mode for the lazy foo players (most of them) that just want to drop asap and do skirmish. 4v4 or 8v8, random small map, skirmish, random players, and can fit into 10 minutes plus loading and connecting.

this can live along side a mode which has voting, decks, multiple drops, objectives, matchmaking with qp team rules (which can be streamlined since you dont need to balance tonnage anymore), and a long game clock. pretty much what eq with decks has been. not quite what fp turned into (in fact fp-siege should be a comp/private mode, and the rest should be discontinued), but what it should have been. eq would still be around for its intended purpose of regularly scheduled whacky events.

though i can make a case for fewer buckets. one mode to rule them all would be nice for condensing the population. but the fact remains that if you can a mode, some fraction of the player base will claim it as their favorite and quit as a result unless you replace it with something that is actually better and more popular.

Edited by LordNothing, 28 March 2023 - 05:06 AM.