236 replies to this topic

[feeWAIVER]

Saved By The Bell, on 03 April 2023 - 08:26 PM, said:

So, you cant do 1000 damage, and try to do 250*4 damage with 4 mechs?

Doesn't look like a Quick Play.

I don't understand.
You have 15 minutes to do as much damage with as few mechs as you can.
If you can survive 15 minutes in 1 mech, then good.
If you kill people, they will come back, so you'll have plenty of targets.

Edited by feeWAIVER, 03 April 2023 - 10:09 PM.

[Saved By The Bell]

I am opposite. I even think, money-cost repairs and some time waiting after bad defeat will improve players game.

Some penalty for defeat.

Well I understand, its only for some type of players.

[pbiggz]

Saved By The Bell, on 04 April 2023 - 02:45 AM, said:

I am opposite. I even think, money-cost repairs and some time waiting after bad defeat will improve players game.

Some penalty for defeat.

Well I understand, its only for some type of players.

That is not a good idea

Davegt27, on 03 April 2023 - 10:51 AM, said:

QP drop decks are probably a bad idea

if you get behind on kills your in for a long long match

maybe try a drop deck of 2 mechs

no, people need to stop being so scared they want ****** half measures.

[redacted]

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 24 April 2023 - 10:52 PM.

[Sjorpha]

feeWAIVER, on 03 April 2023 - 05:05 PM, said:

In Faction Play you know what map you're on before you select your mech. In Quickplay, you don't know which map/mode it is until you vote.. so naturally "less specialized mechs" would always have a place as your first drop.
On your second drop, you would have 3 mechs left to choose from, if you feel the particular map calls for more specialization.

The meta will certainly change, and we'll certainly see mechs being used situationally.
We'll see people dropping with AC's on their first mech, and LBX on their second, for example.
We'll see piranhas coming out on people's 3rd drops, as well as others dropping streak mediums to counter them.
If you wreck the enemy with lurms, maybe they'll respawn with AMS boats and push you back.

Compound this with an ever-changing weight limit, and the meta will be more dynamic, certainly.

Sure, that's a compelling argument for such a game mode to exist.

I think it's largely a matter of how much you enjoy the current 1-mech 1-life quickplay, and how much you think that is a part of MWOs flavour. I play a lot of faction play, in my experience two good 12-mans in FP is the best experience you can have in this game (outside of comp which I can't speak too, I assume that's a lot of fun if you get into it properly) but then I like that quickplay is as different from that as possible as an alternative when there's not enough of my unit/friends online.

But yeah I've also really been enjoying the event queue stuff, and I like it best when it's just the themed dropdecks (like only mediums or whatnot) and they don't do the extra armour and speed etc. So I would probably like the mode you are proposing as well.

So it's not that I have a lot against the idea, I just think the current QP is good and doesn't really need to change. I'm much more concerned about improving Faction Play and getting more frequent events in the event queue, and to some extent these things are a matter of priority given how little development resources we can expect at this point.

[TheCaptainJZ]

We can make QP more like FP but then we'd need a new concept for QP.

If we went that route, I'd say 4v4, all 8 mechs within a ~20T range, within the same tier, maybe +1. 10 minute, Skirmish only, small maps only (modify Solaris maps and other small maps). Add something for progression in just this mode.

Shift current QP design to FP to coexist with 12v12 FP, but different. Let's call it "Battle".
-8v8 instead (help MM)
-Drop decks
-Objectives (not just skirmish)
-20 or 25 minute matches
-Map shown before match and pregame lobby
-No tiny maps
-Variations on objectives (just add some variety to the structures--have to protect/destroy/capture a mech factory, a radar complex or a fuel depot).
-For faction, just allow any mech to be used in this mode under the player's declared banner while 12v12 is either all IS or all Clan on each side as it is now.
-Players earn faction reputation for whatever banner they claim and more if they were on the winning team, based on performance.
I know it doesn't feed into FP well, but this mode has to allow any player to pilot any mech as that's a player desire even if it isn't logical. At least reputation could be carried over to influence the 12v12 fights somehow as that tug of war mechanic we had with scouting mode. Not sure what bonus it should provide though.

There's a lot to work out especially with the MM, groups, and how the "Battle" matches actually affect the planet conquest, but try to have a true "quick play" mode with fast, simple matches similar to Solaris (better for low pop times too) but a little bigger while having the Battle mode have more depth with features taken from FP without, hopefully running into some of the same severe issues with steamrolls. All FP and Battle missions are objective based, but the ones with full 12v12 are to take the planet while everyone else is fighting for their own glory in 8v8. Your performance affects how much faction reputation you earn and all that should be summed up to either help or hinder the 12v12 conquest matches depending on which side has more accumulated. So declaring a faction matters a little in the main missions for the larger FP world. Declaring a faction should also provide some kind of universal quirk for as long as you are aligned with them but this is a stretch goal. Think of it like picking a race in an RPG. Davion--ballistics are buffed. Steiner--armor is buffed. Liao--sensors and electronic systems are buffed.

For groups, idk. Certainly, groups of 2+2 or 4 could duke it out in the smaller QP. For Battle, I'd like to see groups of 2-8 possible again, but I'm sure that wouldn't work well in reality.

[sycocys]

Sjorpha, on 04 April 2023 - 11:57 AM, said:

in my experience two good 12-mans in FP is the best experience you can have in this game

FP was awesome when most of the groups/units were willing to line up against each other - even with the tech imbalances and complete lack of any depth to the mode. Really is too bad they spent all that time and money dumping into solaris instead of making fp a bigger/better experience. Probably wouldn't have dumped such a larger number of unit players.

One simple thing they could have done back when units started avoiding fighting each other is to simply place a limit on units per faction until it balanced out across the board then add the xp for unlocks to a getting a smaller amount for the other factions you are fighting.

[Horseman]

feeWAIVER, on 02 December 2022 - 03:35 PM, said:

This will breath new life into the game.

It will also dramatically increase the entry requirements for new and casual players.

[Snotskull]

feeWAIVER, on 03 April 2023 - 10:04 PM, said:

I don't understand.
You have 15 minutes to do as much damage with as few mechs as you can.
If you can survive 15 minutes in 1 mech, then good.
If you kill people, they will come back, so you'll have plenty of targets.

2 maps or 3 or 4 maps. one mech per map. if you die you have to wait for the next map. pick the other mech in your drop deck. make the maps a vote each time or random or predetermined etc. so one mech/one map and you commit to 2 3 or 4 QP maps. you could add attack/defend QP bases etc. so you could do a round of 3 one attack, one defend and one domination best of 3 etc.

[feeWAIVER]

Snotskull, on 09 April 2023 - 10:00 PM, said:

2 maps or 3 or 4 maps. one mech per map. if you die you have to wait for the next map. pick the other mech in your drop deck. make the maps a vote each time or random or predetermined etc. so one mech/one map and you commit to 2 3 or 4 QP maps. you could add attack/defend QP bases etc. so you could do a round of 3 one attack, one defend and one domination best of 3 etc.

That's just queing people into 2, 3, or 4 maps in a row... To play against the same team..
That would be up to an hour time investment.

[Snotskull]

feeWAIVER, on 10 April 2023 - 05:26 AM, said:

That's just queing people into 2, 3, or 4 maps in a row... To play against the same team..
That would be up to an hour time investment.

a drop deck of 4 or less on one QP map seems like FW play just on a QP map. sounds stale and not very dynamic for your drop deck.

[Alstren]

Said it before will say it again doing this would KILL THE GAME there is a reason almost no one plays faction warfare.

[feeWAIVER]

Alstren, on 10 April 2023 - 07:30 AM, said:

Said it before will say it again doing this would KILL THE GAME there is a reason almost no one plays faction warfare.

And yet, Event Queue is a massive success.
FW is 12mans vs Pugs with plenty to time to farm every mech.
FW maps are based on Attack/Defence of choke points, which exacerbates the pug farming.


We're asking for 15 minutes, Soup Queue, 4 mech drop decks.
People won't have time to lose 4 mechs in 15 minutes.
Last time they did 15 minute Event Queue, most people used 2 or 3 mechs max.

That's what we're asking for. Don't be dumb. Just do it. Gogogogo.

Edited by feeWAIVER, 10 April 2023 - 07:40 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

They could potentially break immersion and add drop decks as just limited respawns of the same mech, but again, it won't be quickplay anymore.

Adding drop decks to QP basically is FP without the faction restrictions.

[feeWAIVER]

TheCaptainJZ, on 10 April 2023 - 08:49 AM, said:

They could potentially break immersion and add drop decks as just limited respawns of the same mech, but again, it won't be quickplay anymore.

Adding drop decks to QP basically is FP without the faction restrictions.

A hotdog is basically a hamburger without the beef pattie.

15 minute matches and Soup Queue = Quickplay.

[Duke Falcon]

Soooo?

QP drop deck is serious or just a thrown hoax to force forum members bite each others necks?

Well, you tell me?

...

[foamyesque]

A 4-mech no-respawn drop deck (or even just 2) could be very interesting for QP in that you're less likely to lose in the map selection stage when Peaks or Solaris come up. My one concern would be that it might disincentivize all-around designs, which already suffer, even more.

[Bud Crue]

Duke Falcon, on 10 April 2023 - 11:51 AM, said:

Soooo?

QP drop deck is serious or just a thrown hoax to force forum members bite each others necks?

Well, you tell me?

...

Serious. FYI, if interested in this as more than a presumed forum hoax, go listen to the last NGNG chat with Matt and Daeron. Matt notes that despite the community clamor to focus resources on trying to improve the match maker, he isn't confident that such an expenditure would result in much improvement to the MM, and that given the huge amount of positive feedback they receive from drop deck events in the event queue (per Daeron), then perhaps those resources would be better spent in trying to bring drop decks to QP.

This didn't come off to me as some pie in the sky flight of fancy, but more of a the 'MM is f-ed, I can't see us doing anything to it to make it better, so lets do something else that might be cool and that folks apparently like when we tried it in event queue' sort of thing.

https://mwomercs.com...att-and-daeron/

My 2 c-bills is that I for one think the event queue use of drop decks is fine, and it should go no further than that. I think that if Matt et al. are serious in their belief that the vast majority of the community would prefer drop decks in QP rather than see them put forth legitimate efforts to try and improve the MM (even if they fail), then he (they) are misguided at best.

[feeWAIVER]

Bud Crue, on 11 April 2023 - 03:05 AM, said:

My 2 c-bills is that I for one think the event queue use of drop decks is fine, and it should go no further than that. I think that if Matt et al. are serious in their belief that the vast majority of the community would prefer drop decks in QP rather than see them put forth legitimate efforts to try and improve the MM (even if they fail), then he (they) are misguided at best.

Last EQ Weekend, they did 25 minutes matches on Freeworld, and it really wasn't very fun.
Next EQ Weekend, if they bring it back down to 15 minutes and give us good maps, I think we'll once again see how fun drop decks can be for Every player in the match.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

feeWAIVER, on 11 April 2023 - 05:05 AM, said:

Last EQ Weekend, they did 25 minutes matches on Freeworld, and it really wasn't very fun.
Next EQ Weekend, if they bring it back down to 15 minutes and give us good maps, I think we'll once again see how fun drop decks can be for Every player in the match.

which is total nonsense.
sorry, but there's no way to be more polite without bending some simple facts.

everybody -including those who play just for fun- is complaining about "good players" dominating with this or that playstyle/mech/whatever.
now, is it that hard to imagine what such a player with a dropdeck does to a for-fun-player?
now imagine this in the hand of a "tryhard" (and I use the term losely).
now imagine what a group of them does.
..
and now imagine how many new players this wins ("getting sealclubbed 24/7 is so much fun"), and how many people will just quit playing.
we've had this in faction already, years ago.
you see where it ended.
and that was with a more competetive crowd, not just the "for fun" people.


TLDR: dropdecks are a great addition to the game, when both sides are at roughly the same level and have the same attitude (see: factionplay how it SHOULD be).
it is a HORRIBLE idea to hand that concept to a "fun mode" - cause it will be "fun" only to a certain group of up to 4.
the other 20+ won't see this as fun. at all.

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 11 April 2023 - 05:34 AM.

[feeWAIVER]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 11 April 2023 - 05:30 AM, said:

which is total nonsense.
sorry, but there's no way to be more polite without bending some simple facts.

everybody -including those who play just for fun- is complaining about "good players" dominating with this or that playstyle/mech/whatever.
now, is it that hard to imagine what such a player with a dropdeck does to a for-fun-player?
now imagine this in the hand of a "tryhard" (and I use the term losely).
now imagine what a group of them does.
..
and now imagine how many new players this wins ("getting sealclubbed 24/7 is so much fun"), and how many people will just quit playing.
we've had this in faction already, years ago.
you see where it ended.
and that was with a more competetive crowd, not just the "for fun" people.


TLDR: dropdecks are a great addition to the game, when both sides are at roughly the same level and have the same attitude (see: factionplay how it SHOULD be).
it is a HORRIBLE idea to hand that concept to a "fun mode" - cause it will be "fun" only to a certain group of up to 4.
the other 20+ won't see this as fun. at all.

When the match ended and nobody has used more than 3 mechs, I think it's safe to assume a good time was had by all for the duration of the 15 minute match.

When the match ends at 25 minutes with the final people being farmed out of their drop zones, it's safe to assume less fun was had.