177 replies to this topic

[simon1812]

I do like to think that this changes will make more sense once the new weapons are added later on.

[Wraith 1]

HGR BUFF

[CFC Conky]

Making adjustments to particular chassis/variants is more effective than nerfing entire weapon classes when it come to balance, imo, and it does appear that this patch is trying to do this. The buffs to ballistic weapons may offset some of the mech nerfs but I guess we’ll just have to see.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Edited by CFC Conky, 22 January 2023 - 10:15 PM.

[Tomc300]

IF they want to encourage people to use Omnis "as is" they should get their heads out of their backsides and make S08 combos that are worth a damn. When the laser vomit builds are as effective and easy for a newbie like me to use, then I will use them. 5 effing points of armor is NOT enough to make me use my Omnis as they came, Hell, I sold my SMN-G arms and my MDD-C arms as soon as I bought the mechs. Now if they put a +10% or +15% XP buff on S08 builds, maybe. What they have now is NOT WORTH MY TIME.

[The Chancelor]

Wraith 1, on 22 January 2023 - 08:51 PM, said:

HGR BUFF

LOL u scare me

Steel Shanks, on 22 January 2023 - 08:30 PM, said:

Do you smell that PGI? I do... That would be the ***** ye stepped in...

I'd friggin' cancel this Patch... Because what it entails is idiotic beyond all reasoning...

The game is quite balanced right now, so WHY F--- it up? WHY? Invisible walls? Nerfs for no reason? Look I hate Clanners, I REALLY do, but their Mechs don't need Nerfing... Especially the poor Hellfire... If anything, buff the damn thing, I kill a lot of them. Vipers can be killed pretty easily too, WHY Nerf their CT?

Look... The Cauldron has done good, however they generally do far more BAD, that lasts, and lasts, before they do good again... Sad too say... Cancel this Patch, and RETHINK what needs to be done, because this ain't it. I am a huge MWO fan, but yer starting to wear Me down guys... Hard to defend PGI when yer doing stupid things like this...

Sorry pal but MWO is far away from being balanced.

[Big-G]

Lockheed_, on 20 January 2023 - 09:52 PM, said:

I though we were supposed to get a Hatchetman 7R Platium for early adopters as well?

here's the announcement btw.:

YES! Where the {insert acceptable expletive here} is it!?

[Clay Endfield]

Steel Shanks, on 22 January 2023 - 08:30 PM, said:

Do you smell that PGI? I do... That would be the ***** ye stepped in...

I'd friggin' cancel this Patch... Because what it entails is idiotic beyond all reasoning...

The game is quite balanced right now, so WHY F--- it up? WHY? Invisible walls? Nerfs for no reason? Look I hate Clanners, I REALLY do, but their Mechs don't need Nerfing... Especially the poor Hellfire... If anything, buff the damn thing, I kill a lot of them. Vipers can be killed pretty easily too, WHY Nerf their CT?

Look... The Cauldron has done good, however they generally do far more BAD, that lasts, and lasts, before they do good again... Sad too say... Cancel this Patch, and RETHINK what needs to be done, because this ain't it. I am a huge MWO fan, but yer starting to wear Me down guys... Hard to defend PGI when yer doing stupid things like this...

No one smells crap. Anytime there's a nerf, there's community out cry and outrage. No one is taking all these gripes seriously. Y'all get over yourselves in a matter of weeks. Cauldron makes the balance passes, PGI just executes them. Seriously, everyone whining their heads off right now don't seem to remember the state of the game 13 months ago. Remember IS MPL spam? ATM Delete buttons? CER-PPCs boats? The fact that most of these nerfed mechs lacked any quirks whatsoever and were pidgeon holed into a handful of builds 13 months ago seems to be lost on you (Timberwolf and MAD-IIC didn't have squat for quirks if you swapped an omni on the Timby; hell Timby didn't even have an ECM omnipod).

The quality of the game has improved immensely; all these mechs that are losing minor amounts of Armor and 5% Heat Efficiency will still be in a far better state than they were 13 months ago. And if any of these nerfs are overly heavy-handed, another balance pass can reverse the nerfs.

Every time there's a nerf, players kick and scream and wag their fists,and get hyped up believing every other voice in the choir validates their opinion, but in the end the nerf goes through and then the players promptly go back to playing the game. This happens in every game, DEVs are accustomed to this.

Edited by Clay Endfield, 23 January 2023 - 03:21 AM.

[sycocys]

Clay Endfield, on 23 January 2023 - 03:19 AM, said:

Every time there's a nerf, players kick and scream and wag their fists,and get hyped up believing every other voice in the choir validates their opinion, but in the end the nerf goes through and then the players promptly go back to playing the game. This happens in every game, DEVs are accustomed to this.

I'm just saying it's weird to nerf down the structure of a mech line that doesn't over perform, while there's lights 20 tons less with tiny hitboxes and buffed to have the same armor rating and massively over perform for the tonnage.

And you have things like the crab-27 which is already a very good performing medium, - tight hitboxes, decent structure buffs, max heat + usually run with snubs and ml, and getting its main damage ppcs buffed up further.
-I quite enjoy running the mech, can tell you flat out that it doesn't need to be buffed more, if anything it should have some slight reductions like +10% heat cap, or 20% velocity, remove cool shot buffs and add a -5% heat to ppc family.
It's already steered towards this type of build because of its hard point locations already- it doesn't need to be over quirked to force it to these builds. STD laser buffs gave people that like LL over ppc a way to rig it and still have some effective output.

[ghost1e]

Clay Endfield, on 23 January 2023 - 03:19 AM, said:

Seriously, everyone whining their heads off right now don't seem to remember the state of the game 13 months ago. Remember IS MPL spam? ATM Delete buttons? CER-PPCs boats? The fact that most of these nerfed mechs lacked any quirks whatsoever and were pidgeon holed into a handful of builds 13 months ago seems to be lost on you (Timberwolf and MAD-IIC didn't have squat for quirks if you swapped an omni on the Timby; hell Timby didn't even have an ECM omnipod).

whether or not I agree with this patch, saying "Cauldron has done well in the past" does not mean it can't be bad.

[KursedVixen]

Tomc300, on 22 January 2023 - 11:12 PM, said:

IF they want to encourage people to use Omnis "as is" they should get their heads out of their backsides and make S08 combos that are worth a damn. When the laser vomit builds are as effective and easy for a newbie like me to use, then I will use them. 5 effing points of armor is NOT enough to make me use my Omnis as they came, Hell, I sold my SMN-G arms and my MDD-C arms as soon as I bought the mechs. Now if they put a +10% or +15% XP buff on S08 builds, maybe. What they have now is NOT WORTH MY TIME.

the set of 8 thing was stupid in the first place it removed the whole point of omnimechs that was to customize it's hard points what they should have done is given the omnipods their own quirks based on the hardpoints but not huge enough to make a big deal.

Clay Endfield, on 23 January 2023 - 03:19 AM, said:

No one smells crap. Anytime there's a nerf, there's community out cry and outrage. No one is taking all these gripes seriously. Y'all get over yourselves in a matter of weeks. Cauldron makes the balance passes, PGI just executes them. Seriously, everyone whining their heads off right now don't seem to remember the state of the game 13 months ago. Remember IS MPL spam? ATM Delete buttons? CER-PPCs boats? The fact that most of these nerfed mechs lacked any quirks whatsoever and were pidgeon holed into a handful of builds 13 months ago seems to be lost on you (Timberwolf and MAD-IIC didn't have squat for quirks if you swapped an omni on the Timby; hell Timby didn't even have an ECM omnipod).

The quality of the game has improved immensely; all these mechs that are losing minor amounts of Armor and 5% Heat Efficiency will still be in a far better state than they were 13 months ago. And if any of these nerfs are overly heavy-handed, another balance pass can reverse the nerfs.

Every time there's a nerf, players kick and scream and wag their fists,and get hyped up believing every other voice in the choir validates their opinion, but in the end the nerf goes through and then the players promptly go back to playing the game. This happens in every game, DEVs are accustomed to this.

maybe if they stop nerfing clan to the ground people wouldn't whine so much.... it's like PGI wants to erase clan mechs... but they can't becuase some people paid real money for them.

The only good clan weapons are pretty much lasers since all the others are kinda crap C uac 5 for example..

actually all clan weapons have this issue while not having enough armor to do full damage with their weapons that require more face time, meanwhile IS not only has most of the weapons that require little face time but also the armor to use those that don't. The Urban mech should not have as much armor as a Huncbach IIC

An6ryMan69, on 22 January 2023 - 07:11 PM, said:

The Clan IIC Rifleman hero is NOT showing up in the Dropship deal!

becase clan mechs are bad and must be removed. save your money and anger don't buy clan mechs for $ They're just gonna be nerfed next patch anyway. besides you can save up MC from events to get clan hero mechs.

Edited by KursedVixen, 23 January 2023 - 07:00 AM.

[TWLT S]

sycocys, on 22 January 2023 - 08:21 PM, said:

I thought Incursion was an enjoyable mode, the match quickly got spread out and stayed that way until the end.

IMO conquest would just be massively better if the lances were dropped in opposition to each other across the center line of points and maybe even just give each team their base point. Initial fighting is over 3 points, with the rest depending on how those matchups play out.

Assault has always sucked, they added ct turrets at one point which made it suck more. And to my recollection that's the only thing they ever tried. If they had a zone you needed to be in to defend or lose points on it should be a relatively simple change given a mode like domination uses a similar system and would be far better than what they have.

With some of the choices I see they could probably just eliminate all modes and every map but canyon network and be fine most nights. Had canyon at least 5 matches in a row one night, just shut the game off -would rather play on classic forest with 11/12 of each team being sniper builds shooting clear across the map.

Idk how this discussion poped up here. But despite to good work PGI did the last year, it s still extremely disappoiting that they did not a single change on any game mode.

[Clay Endfield]

You're seriously going to try and pull a "clan weapons suck" argument? You realize that's the easiest point to disprove, right?

Sure, mechanically, IS tends to favor PPFLD weapons. ACs, Gauss, PPCs, and even UACs class 5 and 2 are PPFLD. Here's the rub though: you're look at 40 pinpoint on most IS mechs top, and that's all they have. Clan meanwhile, has the economic advantage. Safer XLs, Ferro and Endo only using 7 crit slots instead IS's 14, DHS that only take 2 crit slots, ECM and AMS weigh less (ECM takes 1/2 the slots IS ECM takes), Omnimechs are whole nother list of BS, and of course: their weapons are smaller and light than their IS counterparts and typically are more effective at range.

Tell me: What 40 ton IS mech can move at 100+ KPH, while carrying 9 missile hard points that it can abuse? You know IS LRM mechs typically cap out at 80 Missile tubes, and that's Fafnir/Stalker tonnage. Clan can cram 80 LRM tubes on a 50 ton mech, and their LRM dedicated Assaults can hit 130 tubes. How many heavy IS mechs can use 2x UAC-10s and a UAC-20? None. You know how many can on Clan? 3 whole heavy mechs, lightest at 65 tons. Hell Clan can cram 2x UAC-10s on a 50 ton mech with giga quirk support, and still have plenty of tonnage left over for ammo.

And let's not even get into the differences between IS and Clan energy weapons. Very rarely do I see a IS light mech running 2x ER-PPCs. Clan? There's at least one 2x ER PPC light sniper per match. Oh, and Piranhas exist. What about a IS light mech that alpha for 53 pinpoint at 400 meters on chad hard points and still exceed 100 KPH? Incubus can do that. Lasvom is distinctly clan. IS lasers can't quite cut it like clan can, they don't have the firepower or the range.

Now let's get into omnipods and ECM. You know IS mechs typically forfeit hardpoints and offensive quirks for ECM? It's why the IS ECM variants are typically undergunned for their tonnage. You know what Clan omnimechs can do? Slap on an ECM component, and then proceed to tack on as many offensive omnipods as possible. The Ice Ferret, Black Lanner, Shadowcat, Hellbringer, Timberwolf, Night Gyr, Blood Asp, and Direwolf all abuse the hell out of this. You can cram 5x ER LLs and 2x Gauss on a Direwolf-C, and still have ECM. Do you know of any IS mechs that can put down 85 pinpoint at 810 meters while carrying ECM? News flash: none of them even get close.

Clan weapons suck? What BS. Check Jarl's list. Clan mechs outperform IS across the board.

[KursedVixen]

Clay Endfield, on 23 January 2023 - 11:05 AM, said:

You're seriously going to try and pull a "clan weapons suck" argument? You realize that's the easiest point to disprove, right?

Sure, mechanically, IS tends to favor PPFLD weapons. ACs, Gauss, PPCs, and even UACs class 5 and 2 are PPFLD. Here's the rub though: you're look at 40 pinpoint on most IS mechs top, and that's all they have. Clan meanwhile, has the economic advantage. Safer XLs, Ferro and Endo only using 7 crit slots instead IS's 14, DHS that only take 2 crit slots, ECM and AMS weigh less (ECM takes 1/2 the slots IS ECM takes), Omnimechs are whole nother list of BS, and of course: their weapons are smaller and light than their IS counterparts and typically are more effective at range.

Tell me: What 40 ton IS mech can move at 100+ KPH, while carrying 9 missile hard points that it can abuse? You know IS LRM mechs typically cap out at 80 Missile tubes, and that's Fafnir/Stalker tonnage. Clan can cram 80 LRM tubes on a 50 ton mech, and their LRM dedicated Assaults can hit 130 tubes. How many heavy IS mechs can use 2x UAC-10s and a UAC-20? None. You know how many can on Clan? 3 whole heavy mechs, lightest at 65 tons. Hell Clan can cram 2x UAC-10s on a 50 ton mech with giga quirk support, and still have plenty of tonnage left over for ammo.

And let's not even get into the differences between IS and Clan energy weapons. Very rarely do I see a IS light mech running 2x ER-PPCs. Clan? There's at least one 2x ER PPC light sniper per match. Oh, and Piranhas exist. What about a IS light mech that alpha for 53 pinpoint at 400 meters on chad hard points and still exceed 100 KPH? Incubus can do that. Lasvom is distinctly clan. IS lasers can't quite cut it like clan can, they don't have the firepower or the range.

Now let's get into omnipods and ECM. You know IS mechs typically forfeit hardpoints and offensive quirks for ECM? It's why the IS ECM variants are typically undergunned for their tonnage. You know what Clan omnimechs can do? Slap on an ECM component, and then proceed to tack on as many offensive omnipods as possible. The Ice Ferret, Black Lanner, Shadowcat, Hellbringer, Timberwolf, Night Gyr, Blood Asp, and Direwolf all abuse the hell out of this. You can cram 5x ER LLs and 2x Gauss on a Direwolf-C, and still have ECM. Do you know of any IS mechs that can put down 85 pinpoint at 810 meters while carrying ECM? News flash: none of them even get close.

Clan weapons suck? What BS. Check Jarl's list. Clan mechs outperform IS across the board.

urbanmech mrms you don't need 9 missile hard points all you need is a single mrm40.

Fafnir dual heavy guass.

2 large lasers cause ghost heat. unless you use the supernova.. then it's 3 so you can't fire them all at once.


also on the point of omnipods set of 8 which they are making more and more of a thing make quirks almost redudant on clan mechs. and some quirks are so low they might as well not exist.

I'm pretty sure i just said essentially clan lasers are the only good clan weapons... Clan ERPPC is inferior to IS ERPPC it's hotter fires slower and has less velocity.

Up until recently Clan guass was like loading an exposed bomb into your mech due to it's low HP.


And the Jarl's list is for tier 1 try hards DO NOT bring that here. you have invalidated your claim by bringing up that... the jarl's list is a comp thing not a quick play thing. I suppose your also going to bring up my jarl's list rank just to prove your falsified point as well? I've been playing this game just out of beta and ALL i've ever seen is nerf clans buff Is Nerf clans buff IS buff clans a tiny bit nerf Is a tiny bit.. nerf clans buff iS nerf clans buff is the cauldron needs to stop with any balance as they clearly have no idea what they are doing other than being PGI's lapdog.

Edited by KursedVixen, 23 January 2023 - 11:18 AM.

[Clay Endfield]

KursedVixen, on 23 January 2023 - 11:08 AM, said:

urbanmech mrms
Fafnir you don't need 9 missile hard points all you need is a single mrm40.

You're going to argue Urbanmech MRM-40 build? Could've sworn that thing barely hit 67 KPH and is considered a total meme. Besides, MRM's spread means they're splat at any range. SRMs become pinpoint at close range, and with its speed, the Arctic Wolf easily tightens up SRM spread and increases their lethality. SRM Arctic Wolves not only move way faster than MRM Urbies, they hit harder and faster. And the difference in effectiveness shows in the usage stats.

So the only point you addressed is totally farcical and unauthentic, which makes it look like you have no idea about what you're talking about and are just looking at a firepower figure in MWO's crappy UI and saying "See! They're the same!"

One similar stat does not imply a similarity in overall effectiveness.

EDIT: Oh now you want to argue?

Fafnir and 2x HGR? Really? A mech with such hysterically bad hitboxes, you can shoot the CT from any angle. And HGR? A weapon system that was something 3 years ago, that's completely faded away into obscurity because the meta dictates mid range builds and snipers?

You're worried about Ghost Heat on a weapon that has hitscan and 810 meters of range? It's called stage firing, most meta builds don't care about GHL. That's why 6-8x C-ER-LL snipers are all the rage. Or 3-4x CER PPCs. CERPPC, that have no min range penalty, 810 meters of range, hit for 15 damage a piece, and weigh less than all IS PPCs, save for LPPCs? Yeah, they better have some kind of comparable deficiency, cause CERPPCs are absolutely nuts OP.

And I'm totally going to reference Jarl's, because performance is what metas are designed around, and balancing that meta is what makes for a better game. What? You think applying TT rules to a competitive real-time FPS is going translate into a good game?

You want VG TT, play Harebrain's Battletech. You want real time fps mech action? MWO and MW5 are pretty much your only options.

Edited by Clay Endfield, 23 January 2023 - 11:54 AM.

[Matt Newman]

An6ryMan69, on 22 January 2023 - 07:11 PM, said:

The Clan IIC Rifleman hero is NOT showing up in the Dropship deal!

Fixed!

Big-G, on 23 January 2023 - 02:35 AM, said:

YES! Where the {insert acceptable expletive here} is it!?

Its coming this patch just not posted in the patch notes. Will have it's own post and Promotion.

[Clay Endfield]

Yo Matt, we gonna get a "sales for science" post soon? Really hoping the Warhawk Chassis makes the sales list; hoping, but not expecting the Crusader to make the list too.

[Big-G]

Matt Newman, on 23 January 2023 - 12:12 PM, said:

Its coming this patch just not posted in the patch notes. Will have it's own post and Promotion.

Sweet! {Insert acceptable expletive here} yeah!

[sycocys]

KursedVixen, on 23 January 2023 - 06:46 AM, said:

The only good clan weapons are pretty much lasers since all the others are kinda crap C uac 5 for example..

-- The Urban mech should not have as much armor as a Huncbach IIC -- just wanted to stress this fact --

I would say clan LBX is nice as well and ERPPC. HMG is comparable just that clans can generally boat enough to be c-bill farms while you vomit lasers. Have always disliked the clan cannons, the burst is too spread out in timing which basically makes them less useful lbx's with an annoying ticking sound.

[simon1812]

The Chancelor, on 23 January 2023 - 01:08 AM, said:

LOL u scare me




Sorry pal but MWO is far away from being balanced.

MWO is as balanced as it will ever be.

[Nyandere]

Weird choice of mechs to nerf, many of them rarely being seen in QP.