317 replies to this topic

[Ilostmycactus]

I don't like consumable slot quirks. Something that forces me to spend cbills to use it. They're also boring. Taking an extra coolshot is not what I have in mind when I think of unique quirks. Maybe the Scattershot is too good but I don't see all that many being played, and I've never been crushed by one.
At this point I think legend mechs either need to be released for cbills/mc after a time, or quirks need to be advertised in general terms.

[BLACKR0SE]

I don't enjoy playing with the same machines all the time. Even if I buy the best machine, winning with just one machine makes me feel weak.

I tell myself that I can use all machines.

Edited by TAMTAMBABY, 22 May 2023 - 02:26 PM.

[MechWarrior8922442]

TAMTAMBABY, on 22 May 2023 - 12:55 PM, said:

I think instead of polishing and presenting old mechs, they could develop new and spacious mechs. And no one would object to that. No one would cry for it. Because the essence of a mech lies in its uniqueness. It should be designed and presented as a cold machine. For example, it wouldn't have ballistic capabilities. All mechs have their pros and cons. When you look at them, they are all equal.

If they roll the time line forward a couple of years, they can do an entirely new faction in the Blakists that have hardly been explored in video games at all.


But that would be a lot more work than pay-to-win-for-exactly-1-month mechs. The community is cool, though... You could recruit volunteer labor and get those 3d models pretty fast.

[Mechwarrior2342356]

MechWarrior8922442, on 22 May 2023 - 05:51 PM, said:

If they roll the time line forward a couple of years, they can do an entirely new faction in the Blakists that have hardly been explored in video games at all.

Probably because the Wobbies are a one dimensional "religiously motivated terrorist" faction brought in seemingly for no other reason than to hit Reset on the Battletech Universe and its established personalities, and consequently everybody hates them.

Edited by the check engine light, 22 May 2023 - 06:03 PM.

[charbdys]

I hear what you're saying about balance issues and not being able to play with them prior to release but it's still extremely frustrating to spend a not insignificant amount of real money on a mech, kit it out to play the way I want it and then to come back and find that the loadout's invalid because someone forgot to put in a set of actuators (that several other mechs in the same family, the Deathstrike, the -1, and -2 variants, don't have) or that the loadout I liked and was comfortable playing a particular way had been deemed too powerful and had been nerfed. I have been playing this game for a very long time and have spent a lot of money on it, buying nearly every pack or mech that has been released, because I enjoy it and want to support it but with the QA issues and nerfs that have been hammering the better ones and the lackluster one not getting any changes to make it enough better that I don't feel like I completely wasted my money on it. I'm finding it very hard to be willing to put more real money into the game by buying new mechs when I've been burned by 75% of the most recent ones (MWK - Nerfed, J -extremely difficult to find a build that I find to be playable with the current high alpha state of meta, S - nerfed pretty significantly, DN - pretty good out of the box) within a month or so of purchasing them. I had actually been actively considering buying a second Scattershot so I could have one running each kind of weapon before these patch notes came out. Now? I probably won't buy another one, and this pattern of being jerked around immediately post purchase has me strongly considering just passing on the new ones all together.

I totally understand the need to address the balance issues around the quirks on these mechs but I feel like more gradual changes over the course of a few months might be a better way to address it rather than trying to do all of it at once. Say in the patch notes that the scattershot was performing too well and reduce the performance by a significantly smaller percentage and say that further tweaks may be needed down the line if it continues to overperform and then continue to tune its performance over say the next 3-6 months so that it's not slapping paying customers in the face with big changes to their new toy all at once. It's a bit like cooking a frog. If you toss it into boiling water it'll jump right out but if you put it in cool water and heat it up gradually it won't notice. Folks will continue to play the new mechs and will gradually adapt to your changes much easier than they will to the abrupt changes you are making with this patch and they're far more likely not to hold those changes against you and PGI and will continue to buy the new legendaries as they come out instead of just saying that you're messing up their experience of the game and they don't want to buy any more because of your repeated nerfs of new products and blatantly hostile and defensive attitude toward their very valid complaints. I want this game to be successful and last as long as possible and the only way to do that is to keep the players buying new mechs and other content. If you're driving players with money away from paying for the new shinies (and thereby keeping the lights on) you're actively depriving the game of the very thing that's keeping it afloat. What does it really hurt if your nerfs happen overnight or over the course of a few months. You still get to a point where the new toys are balanced, the buyers stay relatively happy, and PGI keeps getting people to pay for our game. Everybody wins that way.

[Bowelhacker]

Good to see Navid really earning his Cauldron money in this thread...

[KursedVixen]

I'm not a fan of removing the 0.5 damage from the clan medium laser..... why just whY was that whole .5 doing too much damage?? I remember when it did 7 like in Tabletop... ya know let's make the Inner sphere Ermedium do 4 damage I've never seen a reduction in damage on an inner sphere weapon, I wonder why...

MechWarrior8922442, on 22 May 2023 - 05:51 PM, said:

If they roll the time line forward a couple of years, they can do an entirely new faction in the Blakists that have hardly been explored in video games at all.


But that would be a lot more work than pay-to-win-for-exactly-1-month mechs. The community is cool, though... You could recruit volunteer labor and get those 3d models pretty fast.

They'll just be Inner sphere.

Edited by KursedVixen, 23 May 2023 - 05:13 AM.

[BLACKR0SE]

How many hours are left until the update? I can't calculate it due to the time difference.

[epikt]

TAMTAMBABY, on 23 May 2023 - 05:43 AM, said:

How many hours are left until the update? I can't calculate it due to the time difference.

Maintenance begins at 10AM PDT.
See here what time it is in PDT zone: as I post this message it's 7:20 AM, so patch in 2 hours 40 min.

[BLACKR0SE]

epikt, on 23 May 2023 - 06:23 AM, said:

Maintenance begins at 10AM PDT.
See here what time it is in PDT zone: as I post this message it's 7:20 AM, so patch in 2 hours 40 min.

thanks

[Steve Pryde]

TAMTAMBABY, on 23 May 2023 - 05:43 AM, said:

How many hours are left until the update? I can't calculate it due to the time difference.

Starting patch time for me in Germany is 7 pm so I guess for you living in Turkey it's 8 pm. Normally PGI needs like 1 hour for getting servers up again.

[BLACKR0SE]

I'll clean my computer. I'll clean the fans and blow some air on it.

Edited by TAMTAMBABY, 23 May 2023 - 06:36 AM.

[BrokenArrow007]

charbdys, on 22 May 2023 - 10:27 PM, said:

I hear what you're saying about balance issues and not being able to play with them prior to release but it's still extremely frustrating to spend a not insignificant amount of real money on a mech, kit it out to play the way I want it and then to come back and find that the loadout's invalid because someone forgot to put in a set of actuators (that several other mechs in the same family, the Deathstrike, the -1, and -2 variants, don't have) or that the loadout I liked and was comfortable playing a particular way had been deemed too powerful and had been nerfed. I have been playing this game for a very long time and have spent a lot of money on it, buying nearly every pack or mech that has been released, because I enjoy it and want to support it but with the QA issues and nerfs that have been hammering the better ones and the lackluster one not getting any changes to make it enough better that I don't feel like I completely wasted my money on it. I'm finding it very hard to be willing to put more real money into the game by buying new mechs when I've been burned by 75% of the most recent ones (MWK - Nerfed, J -extremely difficult to find a build that I find to be playable with the current high alpha state of meta, S - nerfed pretty significantly, DN - pretty good out of the box) within a month or so of purchasing them. I had actually been actively considering buying a second Scattershot so I could have one running each kind of weapon before these patch notes came out. Now? I probably won't buy another one, and this pattern of being jerked around immediately post purchase has me strongly considering just passing on the new ones all together.

I totally understand the need to address the balance issues around the quirks on these mechs but I feel like more gradual changes over the course of a few months might be a better way to address it rather than trying to do all of it at once. Say in the patch notes that the scattershot was performing too well and reduce the performance by a significantly smaller percentage and say that further tweaks may be needed down the line if it continues to overperform and then continue to tune its performance over say the next 3-6 months so that it's not slapping paying customers in the face with big changes to their new toy all at once. It's a bit like cooking a frog. If you toss it into boiling water it'll jump right out but if you put it in cool water and heat it up gradually it won't notice. Folks will continue to play the new mechs and will gradually adapt to your changes much easier than they will to the abrupt changes you are making with this patch and they're far more likely not to hold those changes against you and PGI and will continue to buy the new legendaries as they come out instead of just saying that you're messing up their experience of the game and they don't want to buy any more because of your repeated nerfs of new products and blatantly hostile and defensive attitude toward their very valid complaints. I want this game to be successful and last as long as possible and the only way to do that is to keep the players buying new mechs and other content. If you're driving players with money away from paying for the new shinies (and thereby keeping the lights on) you're actively depriving the game of the very thing that's keeping it afloat. What does it really hurt if your nerfs happen overnight or over the course of a few months. You still get to a point where the new toys are balanced, the buyers stay relatively happy, and PGI keeps getting people to pay for our game. Everybody wins that way.

Well said Char..
#StripperGlitter

[C337Skymaster]

TAMTAMBABY, on 23 May 2023 - 06:27 AM, said:

I'll clean my computer. I'll clean the fans and blow some air on it.

Yikes!! Yeah, give that a thorough scrubbing. It looks like it's months, if not years, overdue.

[C337Skymaster]

KursedVixen, on 23 May 2023 - 05:10 AM, said:

I'm not a fan of removing the 0.5 damage from the clan medium laser..... why just whY was that whole .5 doing too much damage?? I remember when it did 7 like in Tabletop... ya know let's make the Inner sphere Ermedium do 4 damage I've never seen a reduction in damage on an inner sphere weapon, I wonder why...

They'll just be Inner sphere.

Yeah, they're looking at the builds that boat 6 of them with a pair of some sort of large laser, alpha the whole bundle at once, and carve side-torsos off in one-shot, even from 'mechs with massive armor and structure bonuses.

Personally, those builds should just run hotter (and we should have proper heat penalties, where if you get too hot, your 'mech moves slower until you cool off), and I'm okay with dropping the ghost heat cap from the current 6 to 5 or 4, as long as 'mechs like the Nova Prime and Stormcrow-B get an HSL quirk to compensate.

Or, link the large and medium lasers together, or something. You can't fire 2 large and any mediums together without generating ghost heat, because the large cap is at 2, or something.

But yeah: the individual lasers didn't need to be nerfed, because in singles or pairs, they're quite underwhelming.

[Roodkapje]

Navid A1, on 22 May 2023 - 10:52 AM, said:

What do you think Cauldron is?

A bunch of jokers!

Quote

You think we get test servers?

lol?

Again : GO FIX!!!

Quote

Besides that, balance changes in PvP games happen all the time. I'm now curious how many (PvP) fps games MWO community actually played in their lives.

Plenty to know that the ones in MWO are seriously excessive compared to the ones in other games!

TAMTAMBABY, on 22 May 2023 - 01:34 PM, said:

In my opinion, the shape is already good enough; they just need to enlarge it and add slots.

OK but what would your ideal full loadout look like ?!

All I can think of is some kind of TROLOLOLOL mech

Ilostmycactus, on 22 May 2023 - 02:18 PM, said:

I don't like consumable slot quirks. Something that forces me to spend cbills to use it.

They're also boring.

I guess that's why people barely Pop UAV's these days and let the other team just ambush theirs! LOL!

Quote

Taking an extra coolshot is not what I have in mind when I think of unique quirks.

Actually I wish they would just enable all 5 by default on all mechs!

I love my mechs that have 2 or more enabled by default!

Quote

Maybe the Scattershot is too good but I don't see all that many being played, and I've never been crushed by one.

Then you haven't been playing enough after the release!

charbdys, on 22 May 2023 - 10:27 PM, said:

-- A very long post without hitting the Enter button enough... --

If you fix that I might actually read it despite it's length!

KursedVixen, on 23 May 2023 - 05:10 AM, said:

I'm not a fan of removing the 0.5 damage from the clan medium laser..... why just whY was that whole .5 doing too much damage??

Because that whole Cauldron stuff is just a bunch of randomness!!!

TAMTAMBABY, on 23 May 2023 - 06:27 AM, said:

I'll clean my computer. I'll clean the fans and blow some air on it.

HOLY CRAP DUDE!!!

I think you got some dead animal in there... DAMN...

I predict a "+20% Performance quirk" for your PC once you are done cleaning it!

[Navid A1]

Bowelhacker, on 23 May 2023 - 12:07 AM, said:

Good to see Navid really earning his Cauldron money in this thread...

I'm just the politest in the group willing to explain the reasoning. And I can filter out toddler tantrums from feedback.
You can agree with the reasons, or disagree.

I read counter arguments and compare against what I see myself from playing the game as one reference point.

[Gas Guzzler]

KursedVixen, on 23 May 2023 - 05:10 AM, said:

I'm not a fan of removing the 0.5 damage from the clan medium laser..... why just whY was that whole .5 doing too much damage?? I remember when it did 7 like in Tabletop... ya know let's make the Inner sphere Ermedium do 4 damage I've never seen a reduction in damage on an inner sphere weapon, I wonder why...

If you can't figure that out let's just say we are all lucky you aren't in charge of balance.


You'll notice cERML got a couple of buffs along side the damage nerf. They are trying to tone down alpha strikes without straight up nerfing the weapon. I don't think a 3 damage nerf to alpha is going to turn an already formidable weapon system into trash.

[Navid A1]

KursedVixen, on 23 May 2023 - 05:10 AM, said:

I'm not a fan of removing the 0.5 damage from the clan medium laser..... why just whY was that whole .5 doing too much damage?? I remember when it did 7 like in Tabletop... ya know let's make the Inner sphere Ermedium do 4 damage I've never seen a reduction in damage on an inner sphere weapon, I wonder why...

They'll just be Inner sphere.

It's 0.5 for one c-ERML, but c-ERMLs is usually packed in numbers.
Making it high damage just makes the giga-laser vomit more dominant that it is now.

Slightly lowering the damage on c-ERML lowers the alpha power of those giga-laser vom mechs, and allows it to be made better for use in builds other than Laser vomit as reliable back-up weapons.


IS ERMLs are not particularly strong. So, not need to nerf them.

[Navid A1]

charbdys, on 22 May 2023 - 10:27 PM, said:

I hear what you're saying about balance issues and not being able to play with them prior to release but it's still extremely frustrating to spend a not insignificant amount of real money on a mech, kit it out to play the way I want it and then to come back and find that the loadout's invalid because someone forgot to put in a set of actuators (that several other mechs in the same family, the Deathstrike, the -1, and -2 variants, don't have) or that the loadout I liked and was comfortable playing a particular way had been deemed too powerful and had been nerfed. I have been playing this game for a very long time and have spent a lot of money on it, buying nearly every pack or mech that has been released, because I enjoy it and want to support it but with the QA issues and nerfs that have been hammering the better ones and the lackluster one not getting any changes to make it enough better that I don't feel like I completely wasted my money on it. I'm finding it very hard to be willing to put more real money into the game by buying new mechs when I've been burned by 75% of the most recent ones (MWK - Nerfed, J -extremely difficult to find a build that I find to be playable with the current high alpha state of meta, S - nerfed pretty significantly, DN - pretty good out of the box) within a month or so of purchasing them. I had actually been actively considering buying a second Scattershot so I could have one running each kind of weapon before these patch notes came out. Now? I probably won't buy another one, and this pattern of being jerked around immediately post purchase has me strongly considering just passing on the new ones all together.

I totally understand the need to address the balance issues around the quirks on these mechs but I feel like more gradual changes over the course of a few months might be a better way to address it rather than trying to do all of it at once. Say in the patch notes that the scattershot was performing too well and reduce the performance by a significantly smaller percentage and say that further tweaks may be needed down the line if it continues to overperform and then continue to tune its performance over say the next 3-6 months so that it's not slapping paying customers in the face with big changes to their new toy all at once. It's a bit like cooking a frog. If you toss it into boiling water it'll jump right out but if you put it in cool water and heat it up gradually it won't notice. Folks will continue to play the new mechs and will gradually adapt to your changes much easier than they will to the abrupt changes you are making with this patch and they're far more likely not to hold those changes against you and PGI and will continue to buy the new legendaries as they come out instead of just saying that you're messing up their experience of the game and they don't want to buy any more because of your repeated nerfs of new products and blatantly hostile and defensive attitude toward their very valid complaints. I want this game to be successful and last as long as possible and the only way to do that is to keep the players buying new mechs and other content. If you're driving players with money away from paying for the new shinies (and thereby keeping the lights on) you're actively depriving the game of the very thing that's keeping it afloat. What does it really hurt if your nerfs happen overnight or over the course of a few months. You still get to a point where the new toys are balanced, the buyers stay relatively happy, and PGI keeps getting people to pay for our game. Everybody wins that way.

I've explained the reasons before in this same thread:

Navid A1, on 20 May 2023 - 04:50 PM, said:

PGI has nothing... NOTHING to do with any of these nerfs or buffs or quirk adjustments. These tweaks are by players who themselves have these mechs and play them.
There is no business model. There is no secret plan.

Regarding legendary mechs:

1- Juggernaut: Mech still needs some love and we're discussing to see how we can improve it. Players paid for it to perform, but it is not performing on the level we would like.


2- Moonwalker: The absolute god level mech in the entire game by a wide margin. Unfortunately we can't nerf it more. Stuff that it has are stuff that were promised on purchase. It will remain a god-Tier mech. So... enjoy your p2w


3- Dreadnaught: Extremely powerful mech. But does not invalidate an entire weight class of mechs. Delivers on expectations. A top performer, without crossing lines. Will remain as is (how does that fit into your "business model" theory?).


4- Scattershot:
- Promised to have an outlier quirk, got no Jump Jet cockpit shake (which will remain with the mech).
- Gifts you with 4 free slots in the arms (that in other shadowhawks are occupied with lower arm actuator and hand actuator), allowing you to pack that extra heatsinks or equip that Endo or Ferro armor and still having slots for ammo. This feature was promised with the mech and is not going away.
- Mech was promised to perform well. And it will always perform as a top medium mech, without invalidating the entire medium weight class. Besides that, quirk adjustment will happen as many times as needed to keep the mech a top performer without having it as a literal god and blatant p2w. The initial round of quirks on this mech was over-tuned since we were not sure about how this mech will do in game. If these nerfs turn out to be too much, some of it will come back and/or other stuff will be introduced.


5- Arges and Seraph: These two are taking a safe approach with quirks and are expected to perform well. They will most likely keep their quirks.


Granted, on the surface it seems like there is some conspiracy going on when you see adjustments a month after release (but paying attention to the entire legendary line up, you see that it's not the case).
We are asked to maintain balance and that's what we'll do to the best of our abilities.

Navid A1, on 22 May 2023 - 08:22 AM, said:

The theme of the scattershot was wide spread, fast fire rate, fast velocity.

Because the spread quirk is percentage based, and LBX2 has a lower base spread, it meant nothing for the main build, and the 50% velocity quirk on top, effectively turned the scattershot into a sniper with more range than any other sniper in the game. reaching to 2km with meaningful damage, and high dps.

The nerf has actually been very small when it comes to dps. (35% to 25% cooldown for LBX and 30% to 25% cooldown for missiles)
Main nerf was to Velocity and small caliber weapon spread (so it's not utilized for sniping). Mech still has its ridiculous dps like before.... and even then, the fastest velocity quirk of all shadowhawks.

Edited by Navid A1, 23 May 2023 - 08:49 AM.