317 replies to this topic

[Samziel]

W A R L O R D, on 20 May 2023 - 07:57 AM, said:

No, I don’t believe most people who are expressing concern over nerfing legendary mechs are saying they need to be OP. At least, that is not what I’m saying. What I’m saying is, it’s not a good business model to sell Mechs for IRL money then turn around and nerf them the next month for the sake of “game balance”. Either hold off on its release until the Mech is sufficiently “balanced” through beta testing with players. Or, release the Mech with its quirks, but allow players to keep playing, with what they paid for, and don’t allow “balance” changes for a specific timeframe (ie..3 months or 6 months).

Regardless, whoever is making the decision to “balance” the Legendary Mechs immediately after release is responsible for me not buying the new Legendary Mechs in May. I realize I’m just one person, but I’m probably not the only one.

I can agree with some of that. Scattershot was clearly messed up from the beginning and should have not been released that way. Moonwalker had bugged actuators that were fixed in a week (should have been faster though). Other 2? Didnt receive any nerfs. These future legends? Dont see much to be nerfed since they dont really have much quirks. Feel like people are overblowing the problems here.

Of course you can argue moonwalker was intentionally made that way but idk. It was also fixed in a hotpatch.

Edit

And of course customer "trust" is a big thing. I dont blame you for losing your trust in PGI and I'm also not trying to make a sales pitch here.

Edited by Samziel, 20 May 2023 - 09:12 AM.

[C337Skymaster]

crazytimes, on 19 May 2023 - 04:44 PM, said:

Doesn't matter how you buff the Nova cat.... Thanks to the geometry 90% of the weapon fire hits terrain anyhow. Now it will just hit it faster.

It's called "corner peeking"

Orion_, on 19 May 2023 - 04:56 PM, said:

Confused, did the Scattershot get s huge LBX2/5 buff or a massive nerf?

I'm all for something overpreforming and dialing it back from P2W but if that's a +65% spread nerf that seems extreme.

Scattershot was supposed to be a meme. Apparently the skills on it weren't sufficiently meme-ish, so they're doubling down. The idea is that when it shoots, its shots go EVERYWHERE (hence "Scattershot"). For some reason, the original quirks weren't enough to make that happen.

Edited by C337Skymaster, 20 May 2023 - 09:53 AM.

[C337Skymaster]

Lee Cross, on 19 May 2023 - 05:38 PM, said:

little confused, So basically Vectoring is removed, Over Heat Skill comes in? And Over Heat Skill is reduce overheat damage?

And if you wanted Shock Absorbance, you have to move your skills, yourself.

W A R L O R D, on 19 May 2023 - 05:31 PM, said:

Why am I buying Legendary Mechs, only to have them nerfed the following month...?

And you nerfed the Moonwalker by lowering its acceleration and deceleration...it's literally called the Moonwalker because of its "walking" quirks...

They changed Accel/Decel. It's "Moonwalker" because of its reverse speed quirk.

[C337Skymaster]

InnerSphereNews, on 19 May 2023 - 03:32 PM, said:

WEAPON ADJUSTMENTS


CLAN ER MEDIUM LASER

• Reduced damage to 6.0 (from 6.5)
  
• Reduced Heat to 4.8 (from 5.5)
  
• Reduced Beam duration to 1.05 s (from 1.15 s)

You guys ever consider just dropping the Ghost Heat limit on cERML back from 6 to 5, or 4? And just give 'mechs like the Nova Prime or Stormcrow-B a SO8 HSL quirk to make up the difference? Instead of bouncing the heat and damage around so much trying to nerf when these things are paired in a group of 5 or 6 with some combination of large lasers.

[sycocys]

C337Skymaster, on 20 May 2023 - 11:00 AM, said:

[/center]

You guys ever consider just dropping the Ghost Heat limit on cERML back from 6 to 5, or 4? And just give 'mechs like the Nova Prime or Stormcrow-B a SO8 HSL quirk to make up the difference? Instead of bouncing the heat and damage around so much trying to nerf when these things are paired in a group of 5 or 6 with some combination of large lasers.

Or just go back through mech and reel in the massive numbers of hardpoints they've been dolling out?

[C337Skymaster]

sycocys, on 20 May 2023 - 11:16 AM, said:

Or just go back through mech and reel in the massive numbers of hardpoints they've been dolling out?

Unfortunately, in the case of Omnimechs, none of their hardpoints were ever inflated. Each 'mech comes only with exactly the hardpoints it needs to mount its stock loadout. Most stock loadouts don't actually boat a whole bunch of the same thing, but they do tend to move those things around. Through the miracle of omnipods, you can collect those myriad clusters of hardpoints until you've got a monster boat of a crap-ton of all the same type of hardpoint, and can mount insane numbers of a type of weapon (usually medium lasers).

[Meep Meep]

Navid A1, on 19 May 2023 - 08:21 PM, said:

Did the Juggernaut get nerfed? Did the Dreadnaught get nerfed? No, they didn't. Changes are based on game balance. Some quirks might turn out too much, and become blatant p2w. The two new ones are more likely to keep their stuff since they have a safer approach to quirks. Also Moonwalker wasn't supposed to get higher agility. It was copied from the only MCII-2 with higher agility and we realized it after a while. And we are talking about one of the most OP mechs in this game by a wide margin.

Ok I'm not going to be nasty in my reply mainly because I respect what your group are overall doing for the game but that really was a fine pitch you laid out. So how about in the future you ~fully~ test out these mechs quirks ~before~ they are put up for sale? This can be spun all you want but its pretty shady to promote a mech with powerful quirks only to pull them back later for 'balance' after the bulk of impulse sales have been made. I think the playerbase can be satisfied that a mistake was made in the QA process in their haste to get it to market but only if that mistake is publicly admitted by those who pushed it out in its initial form and a promise of no further bait and switch shenanigans whether intended or not.

Edited by Meep Meep, 20 May 2023 - 12:34 PM.

[Steel Shanks]

Legendary Mechs are an abomination... Anathema to this Game and BattleTech in general... One of the worst ideas PGI has ever had... And there's been a lot of bad ideas... This Patch is a bad idea... I will never buy a Legendary Mech, and I find it hilarious those who did are now angry, because of their Nerfs. Who could have seen that coming? ( Dripping with Sarcasm.)

Hey PGI, just make a Legendary Atlas with 57 Laser Hard Points for yer next Legendary... Might as well, as all the other Legendary's are jokes...

Heavy PPC for the Urbanmech R80? COME ON?! Who's niche Mech is that? A Cauldron Member maybe?

Smaller Maps? What a terrible idea... Clearly PGI's on a roll...

Fixing Matchmaker and Faction Play? Gods I wish... I truly wish...

All in all, SUPER disappointing PGI... This game is getting worse instead of better. Legend rebrand, Legend Mechs, all friggin terrible ideas... Cauldron is terrible too... Somehow these arbitrary terrible Quirks ( Like Heavy PPC on an Urbie.) is probably some Cauldron Pet Urbie that PGI thought "Yeah, great Idea." Sad... Sad time for MechWarrior...

5-20-3052 Battle of Tukayyid... Never forget... Today the Inner Sphere kicked the Clans arse's... Pay yer ComStar Bills...

[Mechwarrior2342356]

Steel Shanks, on 20 May 2023 - 12:42 PM, said:

Legendary Mechs are an abomination... Anathema to this Game and BattleTech in general... One of the worst ideas PGI has ever had... And there's been a lot of bad ideas... This Patch is a bad idea... I will never buy a Legendary Mech, and I find it hilarious those who did are now angry, because of their Nerfs. Who could have seen that coming? ( Dripping with Sarcasm.)

Hey PGI, just make a Legendary Atlas with 57 Laser Hard Points for yer next Legendary... Might as well, as all the other Legendary's are jokes...

Heavy PPC for the Urbanmech R80? COME ON?! Who's niche Mech is that? A Cauldron Member maybe?

Smaller Maps? What a terrible idea... Clearly PGI's on a roll...

Fixing Matchmaker and Faction Play? Gods I wish... I truly wish...

All in all, SUPER disappointing PGI... This game is getting worse instead of better. Legend rebrand, Legend Mechs, all friggin terrible ideas... Cauldron is terrible too... Somehow these arbitrary terrible Quirks ( Like Heavy PPC on an Urbie.) is probably some Cauldron Pet Urbie that PGI thought "Yeah, great Idea." Sad... Sad time for MechWarrior...

5-20-3052 Battle of Tukayyid... Never forget... Today the Inner Sphere kicked the Clans arse's... Pay yer ComStar Bills...

The Moonwalker is STILL an absolute beast.

Calm down.

[Meep Meep]

Yeah I'm not attacking legendary mechs as a concept. Just the execution so far and so far only the scattershot seems to have fallen through the QA cracks. This is why offering a specific refund since it was so drastically changed after the impulse sales would go a long way to redress the mistake. I doubt that the majority of players would take the refund so its not like its going to remove the profits completely. This is more for credibility which is quite important if you want to keep selling these mechs.

[KingCobra]

Its totally unbelievable they nerfed the MoonWalker again and the Fafnir Legend is a sponge now both totally useless in game play for $30 USD.

Sorry PGI but the wallet is closed and the only way to prove to them they cant roll us over and give us a thumb in the bbutt is not giving them any money,

P.S and i thought i would get back the mechs i bought LOL what a dang fool i was to trust them.

[BLACKR0SE]

I don't care about nerfs. I'll take all the mechs. Just bring those drop decks already... I'm so bored.

[BLACKR0SE]

What's the point of having a good mech if I can't use it on the map I want?

All my good mechs are lying in the garage.

I get tense about which map will be selected and whether my mech will be compatible with that map.

Edited by TAMTAMBABY, 20 May 2023 - 04:54 PM.

[Navid A1]

Meep Meep, on 20 May 2023 - 12:29 PM, said:

Ok I'm not going to be nasty in my reply mainly because I respect what your group are overall doing for the game but that really was a fine pitch you laid out. So how about in the future you ~fully~ test out these mechs quirks ~before~ they are put up for sale? This can be spun all you want but its pretty shady to promote a mech with powerful quirks only to pull them back later for 'balance' after the bulk of impulse sales have been made. I think the playerbase can be satisfied that a mistake was made in the QA process in their haste to get it to market but only if that mistake is publicly admitted by those who pushed it out in its initial form and a promise of no further bait and switch shenanigans whether intended or not.

And how do you expect us to test these mechs before they come out?
There is no test server. None.


Also answered to you in another thread, so I just quote:

Navid A1, on 20 May 2023 - 04:50 PM, said:

PGI has nothing... NOTHING to do with any of these nerfs or buffs or quirk adjustments. These tweaks are by players who themselves have these mechs and play them.
There is no business model. There is no secret plan.

Regarding legendary mechs:

1- Juggernaut: Mech still needs some love and we're discussing to see how we can improve it. Players paid for it to perform, but it is not performing on the level we would like.


2- Moonwalker: The absolute god level mech in the entire game by a wide margin. Unfortunately we can't nerf it more. Stuff that it has are stuff that were promised on purchase. It will remain a god-Tier mech. So... enjoy your p2w


3- Dreadnaught: Extremely powerful mech. But does not invalidate an entire weight class of mechs. Delivers on expectations. A top performer, without crossing lines. Will remain as is (how does that fit into your "business model" theory?).


4- Scattershot:
- Promised to have an outlier quirk, got no Jump Jet cockpit shake (which will remain with the mech).
- Gifts you with 4 free slots in the arms that is occupied with lower arm actuator and hand actuator, allowing you to pack that extra heatsinks or equip that Endo or Ferro armor and still having slots for ammo. This feature was promised with the mech and is not going away. (Funnily enough same people who were complaining why this shadowhawk was given this free boost are now complaining about toning down quirks)
- Mech was promised to perform well. And it will always perform as a top medium mech, without invalidating the entire medium weight class. Besides that, quirk adjustment will happen as many times as needed to keep the mech a top performer without having it as a literal god and blatant p2w. The initial round of quirks on this mech was over-tuned since we were not sure about how this mech will do in game. If these nerfs turn out to be too much, some of it will come back and/or other stuff will be introduced.


5- Arges and Seraph: These two are taking a safe approach with quirks and are expected to perform well. They will most likely keep their quirks.


Granted, on the surface it seems like there is some conspiracy going on when you see adjustments a month after release (but paying attention to the entire legendary line up, you see that it's not the case).
We are asked to maintain balance and that's what we'll do to the best of our abilities.

Edited by Navid A1, 20 May 2023 - 05:05 PM.

[Meep Meep]

Navid A1, on 20 May 2023 - 05:03 PM, said:

And how do you expect us to test these mechs before they come out?
There is no test server. None.


Also answered to you in another thread, so I just quote:

So the QA cycle is just lets stick some interesting looking quirks on the scattershot and let er rip we can balance it after the purchasing public mass tests a mech they just happened to pay for? No internal testing at all using the private match function to keep it 'secret' as you develop? Welp ok then. I wouldn't have bought the scattershot with the adjusted stats is my point I guess. I knew this was being done on a shoestring budget but I didn't think they were using sewing thread for the strings..


Well in that case I'll just take my $15 impulse buy lumps as lesson learned and be more caveat emptor from now on.

Again I'm not bitching about the overall cauldron efforts just this in particular.

[Mechwarrior2342356]

Navid A1, on 20 May 2023 - 05:03 PM, said:

And how do you expect us to test these mechs before they come out?
There is no test server. None.

...Huh. Well ****.

Are PTS servers used in the past not a thing anymore or how did those work?

Edited by the check engine light, 20 May 2023 - 06:47 PM.

[PocketYoda]

Navid A1, on 19 May 2023 - 08:21 PM, said:

Did the Juggernaut get nerfed?
Did the Dreadnaught get nerfed?

No, they didn't.

Changes are based on game balance. Some quirks might turn out too much, and become blatant p2w.
The two new ones are more likely to keep their stuff since they have a safer approach to quirks.


Also Moonwalker wasn't supposed to get higher agility. It was copied from the only MCII-2 with higher agility and we realized it after a while. And we are talking about one of the most OP mechs in this game by a wide margin.

Yes the Moonwalker has been multi nerfed since it appeared.. Again this is more about bad decisions and consumer anti trust.. why the hell would we buy more of these things when a month later they become useless.

Scattershot was far from overpowered..

Edited by PocketYoda, 20 May 2023 - 07:20 PM.

[KingCobra]

Navid A1 said (Also Moonwalker wasn't supposed to get higher agility. It was copied from the only MCII-2 with higher agility and we realized it after a while. And we are talking about one of the most OP mechs in this game by a wide margin.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Total crap here when i bought my Moonwalker it actually could compete with all the Laser Vomit. Machine gun vomit coming out of the OP lights PGI never balanced and it was made the way it should have been and not changed it was a legend mech for God sakes without what the mech came with it is just another so so mech it never was overpowered compared to all the meta mechs.

Nerfing everything is just ripping the player base off on these Legends how they came out at my purchase is the way they should stay to be honest i have fought the new ones and have no problem killing any of them in my sunspider so how the heck are they so OP? Heck a Spider or some Meta Laser vomit mechs are vastly more OP.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[color=#959595]Yes the Moonwalker has been multi nerfed since it appeared.. Again this is more about bad decisions and consumer anti trust.. why the hell would we buy more of these things when a month later they become useless.[/color]

Pocket yoda I totally agree with you on your comment.
[color=#959595]Scattershot was far from overpowered..[/color]

Edited by KingCobra, 20 May 2023 - 07:41 PM.

[Mechwarrior2342356]

PocketYoda, on 20 May 2023 - 07:05 PM, said:

Yes the Moonwalker has been multi nerfed since it appeared.. Again this is more about bad decisions and consumer anti trust.. why the hell would we buy more of these things when a month later they become useless.

Scattershot was far from overpowered..

Moonwalker is something but it sure as hell isn't useless.

Scattershot seems like it was pretty obscene. Saw an awful lot of matches with a Scattershot pilot at top of scoreboard doubling the MS of the next one down, things like that.

Edited by the check engine light, 20 May 2023 - 07:50 PM.

[Navid A1]

KingCobra, on 20 May 2023 - 07:35 PM, said:

Navid A1 said (Also Moonwalker wasn't supposed to get higher agility. It was copied from the only MCII-2 with higher agility and we realized it after a while. And we are talking about one of the most OP mechs in this game by a wide margin.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Total crap here when i bought my Moonwalker it actually could compete with all the Laser Vomit. Machine gun vomit coming out of the OP lights PGI never balanced and it was made the way it should have been and not changed it was a legend mech for God sakes without what the mech came with it is just another so so mech it never was overpowered compared to all the meta mechs.

Nerfing everything is just ripping the player base off on these Legends how they came out at my purchase is the way they should stay to be honest i have fought the new ones and have no problem killing any of them in my sunspider so how the heck are they so OP? Heck a Spider or some Meta Laser vomit mechs are vastly more OP.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[color=#959595]Yes the Moonwalker has been multi nerfed since it appeared.. Again this is more about bad decisions and consumer anti trust.. why the hell would we buy more of these things when a month later they become useless.[/color]

Pocket yoda I totally agree with you on your comment.
[color=#959595]Scattershot was far from overpowered..[/color]

Unfortunately we can't nerf the Moonwalker more.
It is a god-mech. With no equal. And it will stay that way it seems.