269 replies to this topic

[BLACKR0SE]

I don't care about nerfs. I'll take all the mechs. Just bring those drop decks already... I'm so bored.

[BLACKR0SE]

What's the point of having a good mech if I can't use it on the map I want?

All my good mechs are lying in the garage.

I get tense about which map will be selected and whether my mech will be compatible with that map.

Edited by TAMTAMBABY, 20 May 2023 - 04:54 PM.

[Navid A1]

Meep Meep, on 20 May 2023 - 12:29 PM, said:

Ok I'm not going to be nasty in my reply mainly because I respect what your group are overall doing for the game but that really was a fine pitch you laid out. So how about in the future you ~fully~ test out these mechs quirks ~before~ they are put up for sale? This can be spun all you want but its pretty shady to promote a mech with powerful quirks only to pull them back later for 'balance' after the bulk of impulse sales have been made. I think the playerbase can be satisfied that a mistake was made in the QA process in their haste to get it to market but only if that mistake is publicly admitted by those who pushed it out in its initial form and a promise of no further bait and switch shenanigans whether intended or not.

And how do you expect us to test these mechs before they come out?
There is no test server. None.


Also answered to you in another thread, so I just quote:

Navid A1, on 20 May 2023 - 04:50 PM, said:

PGI has nothing... NOTHING to do with any of these nerfs or buffs or quirk adjustments. These tweaks are by players who themselves have these mechs and play them.
There is no business model. There is no secret plan.

Regarding legendary mechs:

1- Juggernaut: Mech still needs some love and we're discussing to see how we can improve it. Players paid for it to perform, but it is not performing on the level we would like.


2- Moonwalker: The absolute god level mech in the entire game by a wide margin. Unfortunately we can't nerf it more. Stuff that it has are stuff that were promised on purchase. It will remain a god-Tier mech. So... enjoy your p2w


3- Dreadnaught: Extremely powerful mech. But does not invalidate an entire weight class of mechs. Delivers on expectations. A top performer, without crossing lines. Will remain as is (how does that fit into your "business model" theory?).


4- Scattershot:
- Promised to have an outlier quirk, got no Jump Jet cockpit shake (which will remain with the mech).
- Gifts you with 4 free slots in the arms that is occupied with lower arm actuator and hand actuator, allowing you to pack that extra heatsinks or equip that Endo or Ferro armor and still having slots for ammo. This feature was promised with the mech and is not going away. (Funnily enough same people who were complaining why this shadowhawk was given this free boost are now complaining about toning down quirks)
- Mech was promised to perform well. And it will always perform as a top medium mech, without invalidating the entire medium weight class. Besides that, quirk adjustment will happen as many times as needed to keep the mech a top performer without having it as a literal god and blatant p2w. The initial round of quirks on this mech was over-tuned since we were not sure about how this mech will do in game. If these nerfs turn out to be too much, some of it will come back and/or other stuff will be introduced.


5- Arges and Seraph: These two are taking a safe approach with quirks and are expected to perform well. They will most likely keep their quirks.


Granted, on the surface it seems like there is some conspiracy going on when you see adjustments a month after release (but paying attention to the entire legendary line up, you see that it's not the case).
We are asked to maintain balance and that's what we'll do to the best of our abilities.

Edited by Navid A1, 20 May 2023 - 05:05 PM.

[Meep Meep]

Navid A1, on 20 May 2023 - 05:03 PM, said:

And how do you expect us to test these mechs before they come out?
There is no test server. None.


Also answered to you in another thread, so I just quote:

So the QA cycle is just lets stick some interesting looking quirks on the scattershot and let er rip we can balance it after the purchasing public mass tests a mech they just happened to pay for? No internal testing at all using the private match function to keep it 'secret' as you develop? Welp ok then. I wouldn't have bought the scattershot with the adjusted stats is my point I guess. I knew this was being done on a shoestring budget but I didn't think they were using sewing thread for the strings..


Well in that case I'll just take my $15 impulse buy lumps as lesson learned and be more caveat emptor from now on.

Again I'm not bitching about the overall cauldron efforts just this in particular.

[PocketYoda]

Navid A1, on 19 May 2023 - 08:21 PM, said:

Did the Juggernaut get nerfed?
Did the Dreadnaught get nerfed?

No, they didn't.

Changes are based on game balance. Some quirks might turn out too much, and become blatant p2w.
The two new ones are more likely to keep their stuff since they have a safer approach to quirks.


Also Moonwalker wasn't supposed to get higher agility. It was copied from the only MCII-2 with higher agility and we realized it after a while. And we are talking about one of the most OP mechs in this game by a wide margin.

Yes the Moonwalker has been multi nerfed since it appeared.. Again this is more about bad decisions and consumer anti trust.. why the hell would we buy more of these things when a month later they become useless.

Scattershot was far from overpowered..

Edited by PocketYoda, 20 May 2023 - 07:20 PM.

[KingCobra]

Navid A1 said (Also Moonwalker wasn't supposed to get higher agility. It was copied from the only MCII-2 with higher agility and we realized it after a while. And we are talking about one of the most OP mechs in this game by a wide margin.
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Total crap here when i bought my Moonwalker it actually could compete with all the Laser Vomit. Machine gun vomit coming out of the OP lights PGI never balanced and it was made the way it should have been and not changed it was a legend mech for God sakes without what the mech came with it is just another so so mech it never was overpowered compared to all the meta mechs.

Nerfing everything is just ripping the player base off on these Legends how they came out at my purchase is the way they should stay to be honest i have fought the new ones and have no problem killing any of them in my sunspider so how the heck are they so OP? Heck a Spider or some Meta Laser vomit mechs are vastly more OP.
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[color=#959595]Yes the Moonwalker has been multi nerfed since it appeared.. Again this is more about bad decisions and consumer anti trust.. why the hell would we buy more of these things when a month later they become useless.[/color]

Pocket yoda I totally agree with you on your comment.
[color=#959595]Scattershot was far from overpowered..[/color]

Edited by KingCobra, 20 May 2023 - 07:41 PM.

[Navid A1]

KingCobra, on 20 May 2023 - 07:35 PM, said:

Navid A1 said (Also Moonwalker wasn't supposed to get higher agility. It was copied from the only MCII-2 with higher agility and we realized it after a while. And we are talking about one of the most OP mechs in this game by a wide margin.
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Total crap here when i bought my Moonwalker it actually could compete with all the Laser Vomit. Machine gun vomit coming out of the OP lights PGI never balanced and it was made the way it should have been and not changed it was a legend mech for God sakes without what the mech came with it is just another so so mech it never was overpowered compared to all the meta mechs.

Nerfing everything is just ripping the player base off on these Legends how they came out at my purchase is the way they should stay to be honest i have fought the new ones and have no problem killing any of them in my sunspider so how the heck are they so OP? Heck a Spider or some Meta Laser vomit mechs are vastly more OP.
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[color=#959595]Yes the Moonwalker has been multi nerfed since it appeared.. Again this is more about bad decisions and consumer anti trust.. why the hell would we buy more of these things when a month later they become useless.[/color]

Pocket yoda I totally agree with you on your comment.
[color=#959595]Scattershot was far from overpowered..[/color]

Unfortunately we can't nerf the Moonwalker more.
It is a god-mech. With no equal. And it will stay that way it seems.

[KingCobra]

Navid A1, on 20 May 2023 - 07:48 PM, said:

Unfortunately we can't nerf the Moonwalker more.
It is a god-mech. With no equal. And it will stay that way it seems.

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I'm sorry but your full of ssshhitt and PGI and others are just alienating more of the player base ever month by basically lying and ripping them off just like they have done to me and after 10+ years of playing MWO I have no confidence in anyone at PGI the Cauldron ETC. your ruining the game and going in the wrong direction to help MWO.

[Navid A1]

the check engine light, on 20 May 2023 - 07:51 PM, said:

So whatever system the PTSes used is not at your disposal? I legit don't know or I wouldn't be asking.

Nope.
Never had access to anything like that.

KingCobra, on 20 May 2023 - 07:52 PM, said:

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I'm sorry but your full of ssshhitt and PGI and others are just alienating more of the player base ever month by basically lying and ripping them off just like they have done to me and after 10+ years of playing MWO I have no confidence in anyone at PGI the Cauldron ETC. your ruining the game and going in the wrong direction to help MWO.

You bought a top performing MadCat MKII with a unique quirk.
You have a Top performing MCII with a unique quirk.

Where is the lying?

PGI at one time made it so that Gauss and cERPPCs became linked in ghost heat. It was one of the rare changes by them that helped with game balance. I guess people should have quit the game because of that?

[Navid A1]

Run this build on the Moonwalker:
https://mwo.nav-alph...865_MCII-MWKLGD

[epikt]

Navid A1, on 20 May 2023 - 07:59 PM, said:

Quote

So whatever system the PTSes used is not at your disposal? I legit don't know or I wouldn't be asking.

Nope.
Never had access to anything like that.

We had private test servers back in the day, like 10 years ago - they were "private" in nothing but name, everybody had access.

(awyway, I don't know how you can be so patient)

Edited by epikt, 20 May 2023 - 08:20 PM.

[RabidBeagles]

I don't like the UM-R80 adjustments. That (going to be) former reduced heat gen quirk applied to all PPCs -- so we could choose to play it with any flavor of PPC, with snubs probably the favorite. Now it's like we're getting railroaded into playing it with HPPCs.

[Navid A1]

RabidBeagles, on 20 May 2023 - 08:35 PM, said:

I don't like the UM-R80 adjustments. That (going to be) former reduced heat gen quirk applied to all PPCs -- so we could choose to play it with any flavor of PPC, with snubs probably the favorite. Now it's like we're getting railroaded into playing it with HPPCs.

Not at all.
It just allows the quirk to become larger to affect HPPC which is both hot and slow firing, without boosting what is best already.

The best build on that urbie is still dual SNPPC and 3xLPPC.

This just creates an alternate in the form of HPPC+4xSLs

Edited by Navid A1, 20 May 2023 - 08:38 PM.

[W A R L O R D]

Navid A1, on 20 May 2023 - 05:03 PM, said:

And how do you expect us to test these mechs before they come out?
There is no test server. None.

Why can't you test the Legendary Mechs in the Private Lobby?

Edited by W A R L O R D, 20 May 2023 - 08:51 PM.

[RabidBeagles]

Navid A1, on 20 May 2023 - 08:38 PM, said:

Not at all.
It just allows the quirk to become larger to affect HPPC which is both hot and slow firing, without boosting what is best already.

True, it's just a measly -5% heat. Probably won't feel its loss much.

[hypographia]

Meep Meep, on 20 May 2023 - 12:29 PM, said:

Ok I'm not going to be nasty in my reply mainly because I respect what your group are overall doing for the game but that really was a fine pitch you laid out. So how about in the future you ~fully~ test out these mechs quirks ~before~ they are put up for sale? This can be spun all you want but its pretty shady to promote a mech with powerful quirks only to pull them back later for 'balance' after the bulk of impulse sales have been made. I think the playerbase can be satisfied that a mistake was made in the QA process in their haste to get it to market but only if that mistake is publicly admitted by those who pushed it out in its initial form and a promise of no further bait and switch shenanigans whether intended or not.

100% this. Once? Okay, a mistake was made. But then it happens again and again. Now you leave us (the ones who happily/foolishly give you money based on pre-release quirks and stats) with the dilemma of deciding which side of the old adage these responsible parties sit on, being "Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ineptitude." Eiither way you spin these Legendary Rug-Pulls, you're guilty of one of the two possibilities.

I want to support this game, and my purchasing record backs that up, but I've had enough of these Legendary Rug-Pulls. Vet them before you release them. You know why people bought them. It wasn't for the new designs or the different hardpoints...

[hypographia]

Navid A1, on 20 May 2023 - 05:03 PM, said:

And how do you expect us to test these mechs before they come out?
There is no test server. None.


Also answered to you in another thread, so I just quote:

Ah, well that helps me out. You can't test them pre-release? How do you expect me to fund your testing IRL? I didn't realize I was paying for the privilege of beta testing mechs. But that explanation helps me identify the problem, which is apparently dumb whales like me spending real money on imaginary (or transitory) mechs. Problem solved.

Edited by hypographia, 20 May 2023 - 09:21 PM.

[W A R L O R D]

Navid A1, on 20 May 2023 - 05:03 PM, said:

PGI has nothing... NOTHING to do with any of these nerfs or buffs or quirk adjustments. These tweaks are by players who themselves have these mechs and play them.

There is no business model. There is no secret plan.

Navid, with all due respect. You have to admit that this situation is not a "good look" for PGI or the Cauldron.

[Clay Endfield]

Samziel, on 20 May 2023 - 02:03 AM, said:

So all your solutions would be to let OP mechs be OP? There hasnt been actual nerfs for Juggernaut or Dreadnaught and Moonwalker was mostly bugfixed. I dont see how they would nerf the future 2 mechs either though hardpoint inflation is real.

Actually for Seraph they might remove the coolshots. Dunno.


Yeah, ********. Afaik all balance suggestions go through PGI. Who do you think adds them to the game? Cauldron?


Also you all act like Scattershot is now unplayable. It still has gigaquirks for cooldown. The only thing worrying me is the LB2 spread and even that might be partially reverted later on or not even be too much. Well see in game.

Scattershot was hard OP. The Juggernaut is an absolute Joke. It doesn't get the no-shake MASC that the Spirit Bear, Kolross, and Executioner get, any set that makes use of all 8 Ballistic Hardpoints is automatically worse than the Direwolf, Any set trying to use BFGs has to forgo MASC and a decent sized Engine altogether. Any set using RACs/MGs gets ripped to shreds due to the awful ST hitboxes. If you pay attention to Cauldron's deliberations, you'd know they're actively looking for a practical solution to buff the Juggernaut, because it is so underwhelming.

[Cyborne Elemental]

I am stumped by the damage drop of the Clan-ERML..

From 6.5 with longer duration down to 5 matching IS in most #'s except a bit more range?

Aren't clan LPulseL more of the problem?

I guess I understand there needs to be more distinction between MERL, MPL, and HML.
Seems odd is all.