73 replies to this topic

[Destroyer69]

Seriously, the damage seems different, mechs seem weaker, I feel like cheating is enabled for the other team. Anyone else notice this?


Keep the snide remarks out of this thread. If you love faction play, go to another thread.

[Mechwarrior2342356]

Destroyer69, on 13 June 2023 - 08:44 AM, said:

Seriously, the damage seems different, mechs seem weaker, I feel like cheating is enabled for the other team. Anyone else notice this?


Keep the snide remarks out of this thread. If you love faction play, go to another thread.

You are running into well coordinated teams at times who have very good aim and teamshot people into dust. If you don't have someone helping coordinate, you will probably have a rough go.

Edited by the check engine light, 13 June 2023 - 11:08 AM.

[Mechwarrior2342356]

I'll add that it works even better if the shot caller isn't such a revolting foul-mouthed jackwagon that people ignore him out of spite.

[Ignatius Audene]

Destroyer69, on 13 June 2023 - 08:44 AM, said:

Seriously, the damage seems different, mechs seem weaker, I feel like cheating is enabled for the other team. Anyone else notice this?


Keep the snide remarks out of this thread. If you love faction play, go to another thread.

Mostly because new players tend to loose in mech lab. U need to use the right tools for the job (mainly at least one extreme range drop deck). 2nd there is no real mm, so u end up facing veterans in these extremely modified mechs and perhaps even in an premade on comms.

So get right tools.
Get friends
Gitgud

Lack of one can be partially compensated bye the other two points.
But tier 5 pilot in stock atlas on Alpine conquest vs premade is not going to end well

[-K H A N]

FP is awesome,sounds like you did alot of things wrong and often.

[Widowmaker1981]

No matchmaker.

So, if you're at the low end of the skill distribution, you face much more skilled players than you do in quickplay, and if you're at the high end its a boring exercise in potato farming a lot of the time.

Add to that longer matches so a big skill imbalance between the teams is brutal for longer.

Add to that Offense / Defense gameplay where the defending side has a huge advantage, so matches are inherently unbalanced even if there was a matchmaker.

[KursedVixen]

Destroyer69, on 13 June 2023 - 08:44 AM, said:

Seriously, the damage seems different, mechs seem weaker, I feel like cheating is enabled for the other team. Anyone else notice this?


Keep the snide remarks out of this thread. If you love faction play, go to another thread.

did you play clan or IS?

Clans have the advantage as range but once inner sphere get in close the game is over i've even seen spawn camping.

[Ignatius Audene]

if u are spawn camped->game is over no matter the tech. Don't derail every topic in "IS OP pls nerv".Ssimply skill difference.

Edited by Ignatius Audene, 14 June 2023 - 09:10 AM.

[Destroyer69]

KursedVixen, on 14 June 2023 - 07:58 AM, said:

did you play clan or IS?

Clans have the advantage as range but once inner sphere get in close the game is over i've even seen spawn camping.

I was on the clan side, makes sense. They were camping at our drop location, it just seemed like the damage per weapon was greater than in normal play.

Ignatius Audene, on 14 June 2023 - 09:09 AM, said:

if u are spawn camped->game is over no matter the tech. Don't derail every topic in "IS OP pls nerv".Ssimply skill difference.

That is exactly what they were doing.

[Duke Falcon]

Ignatius Audene, on 14 June 2023 - 09:09 AM, said:

if u are spawn camped->game is over no matter the tech. Don't derail every topic in "IS OP pls nerv".Ssimply skill difference.

This!
Exactly this.
But as a side note (rare experience for me) when match reach "camping" it become f**kin' borin' toooooo...

IS and Clan side seems pretty balanced now BTW.

[VeeOt Dragon]

most its the comp teams that make it suck so bad. back when i actually played Faction regularly (that was many years ago) you constantly went up against 12 man premades of the same 3 comp teams over and over. it was these folks that killed the game mode i think. they were nothing but toxic shitbags who claimed to want a challenge but would drop out if a match was against actual good teams. what they really wanted was to club the mixed drop teams. also no mater how well you did personally they would throw a fit if you played anything not complete boring meta (no giving suggestions or build ideas just **** talking).

the trouble with Faction is the snowball goes even quicker than in QP with the matches lasting longer so it just feels worse. in a QP match when you get stomped its over rather quickly (unless you have that one coward who goes off to hide instead of fighting) while in FP your team has to burn through many more mechs before you can roll the dice again. it just makes things seem worse. (its one of the main reasons i think drop decks for QP are a very bad idea)

as for the lack of a MM given the current population QP might as well not have one either as i have seen many times t1s in the same match with t5s (even the odd cadet).

(i only played like 4 matches during the recent faction event and it was better. didn't end up against a 12 man premade once. ok one match was 8 from the same Unit but that was it. my win loss was 2/2 for the 4 games. something i am happy with)

[KursedVixen]

clan and Is are too diffrent for clan vs IS FP to work very well it's much better clan vs clan and IS Vs IS

[Davegt27]

VeeOt Dragon, on 15 June 2023 - 04:56 AM, said:

most its the comp teams that make it suck so bad. back when i actually played Faction regularly (that was many years ago) you constantly went up against 12 man premades of the same 3 comp teams over and over. it was these folks that killed the game mode i think. they were nothing but toxic shitbags who claimed to want a challenge but would drop out if a match was against actual good teams. what they really wanted was to club the mixed drop teams. also no mater how well you did personally they would throw a fit if you played anything not complete boring meta (no giving suggestions or build ideas just **** talking).

the trouble with Faction is the snowball goes even quicker than in QP with the matches lasting longer so it just feels worse. in a QP match when you get stomped its over rather quickly (unless you have that one coward who goes off to hide instead of fighting) while in FP your team has to burn through many more mechs before you can roll the dice again. it just makes things seem worse. (its one of the main reasons i think drop decks for QP are a very bad idea)

as for the lack of a MM given the current population QP might as well not have one either as i have seen many times t1s in the same match with t5s (even the odd cadet).

(i only played like 4 matches during the recent faction event and it was better. didn't end up against a 12 man premade once. ok one match was 8 from the same Unit but that was it. my win loss was 2/2 for the 4 games. something i am happy with)

not exactly but closer then anyone else
it goes back to Russ's comment about 12 mans avoiding each other (which was true) but they sure crapped on Russ for that statement

in the end its really PGI's responsibility to come up with the right mix of things to make a game mode work
the players did not help with all there crying
so PGI spent all there energy fixing (or trying to fix) small problems

the massive potential of FP was never seen

[Jenbu]

I've beaten premades with pugs before. It requires a shot caller who knows what they're doing and everyone willing to listen and use comms. It's rare but is very rewarding and I'm sure demoralizing for the premades.

[pbiggz]

the check engine light, on 13 June 2023 - 02:10 PM, said:

I'll add that it works even better if the shot caller isn't such a revolting foul-mouthed jackwagon that people ignore him out of spite.

That brings back fond memories of Community Warfare season 1/2 drama. Good times.

[xX PUG Xx]

Nevermind.... if you want to get into FP just read this MWO: Forums - Faction Play Guide (mwomercs.com). It's perhaps a little out of date with builds but is still a solid starting point.


Now.... reading the other comments, as is natural, we all read that OP and immediately go to the "They need to GitGud" version of answering. However, that is a very broad question that can be read in different ways and therefore the answers are different,

The mode itself is "shallow"..... once upon a time there was a large enough player base involved in what was then known as Community Warfare that hundreds if not thousands of players formed into Loyalist and Mercenary units. These units had broad mixes of terrible, good and awesomely skilled players; in general the units were able to train new players and offer advice on builds, provide decent drop callers to guide their players during drops and MOSTLY improved the skill level of their members.

Inevitably, the shallow nature and lack of development by PGI, followed by their sledgehammer strategy to dumb down the mode and cull the "big bad 12 mans" to appease the "casual" players meant a lot of these units lost interest, bled members and eventually either shut their doors or remaining members merged with other units. As is natural, the higher skilled players who knew each other coalesced towards one another and the balance of skill began to skew until you have what we have now.

I will say that not all "groups" of players are equal; if you play the mode often enough and persevere, depending on your time zone, you will get to know which players are going to be easy/tough or just "bend over and kiss your ar** goodbye". So blaming players ability to group up for anyone having a hard time in the game mode is just silly. The tools are out there to join a group; it just takes some social skill.

That word skill then brings me on to the next set of answers.

How good are you at the game? This is a tricky one as it requires honesty, BRUTAL honesty. Sometimes its hard to recognise that what we "know" is wrong or that there is stuff we simply don't know or understand; this doesn't mean that the player facing you doesn't know or understand it.

There is a fairly clear progression of requirements to improve personal performance in the Faction Play mode:

1. Mech Bay.

In general, all of the 'Mechs that you intend to use in a FP drop deck need to have viable builds and are fully skilled to make use of that build. This is a tricky one to explain; in the world of BattleTech, having short, medium and long-range weapons and stock armour in one 'Mech is perfectly acceptable. In MWO it is a recipe to get blown back to the drop ship in less time than it took to load the map.

Take a look at GrimMech's Database (isengrim.org). It has a lot of out of date builds but in general will give you a good starting point to develop builds that 1) suite your playstyle and 2) will be more effective at given ranges.

Don't be afraid of the word/abbreviation "META", when applied to 'Mech builds, it will make dealing damage, surviving longer and therefore having more fun an easier prospect.

For the purpose of playing FP you want to have a combination of four medium range 'Mechs that add up to 255 tons (Clan) or 265 tons (Inner Sphere) and the same again for long range. You may even want to have a couple of good short range brawlers, if you like that playstyle (I REALLY do) but you need to recognise that the majority of the FP maps and the very nature of the mode is geared towards medium to long range "trading" This is why you will see the more experienced players doing 1.5 - 2 - 2.5 - 3k damage, They're not cheating, using aimbots, hax or anything else shady; they are simply using their knowledge of the maps, builds and general experience to get the most out of their own and builds strengths.

My personal recommendation is to avoid using LRMS in Faction Play: unless you are intimately aware of the map geography, are using something mobile enough to get good firing positions and are willing to get your own locks using TAG or NARC. The exception to this is when dropping in a group or someone in the pre-map lobby offers to NARC/TAG/spot: then it's possible for LRMS to be brutally effective BUT the other side may have massed ECM, AMS.

Every weapon, tactic or strategy has a counter: that's the fun and frustration of this game.

2. Drop Decks.

I believe we all start with 4 free drop decks. If you intend to play Clan, set up all four with Clan 'Mechs and vice versa if you intend to play Inner Sphere.

Personally I have 10 drop decks setup; 5 Clan and 5 Inner Sphere but going back a few years (ok, 5 or 6... 7 oh wow, I've been playing MWO for 11 years? ) I have been involved in CW / FW / FP since the beginning and at one point it was the only game mode I played. However, 10 is overkill and isn't really necessary. With the exception of Conquest and wanting some fast Lights for capturing objectives, each game mode / map can be played with a mix of medium to long range builds and if you spend the time setting up two or three correctly, you will be able to play most maps/modes comfortably.

My basic recommendation:

* One long (extreme) range deck: builds that can hit with full damage at 900+ metres.
* One medium range "trade" deck: laser vomit, ppc / gauss, big "dakka" autocannon. Builds that can fit at 4-700 metres.

These two range brackets can then have some short range, brawler style 'Mechs substituted in for either late game Hail Mary shenanigans in the drop zone (yours or theirs) or, of course, objective blitz tactics.

3. In-game strategy / tactics.

This can be both simple and frustratingly hard to explain but here is my recommendation if those starting out or struggling with the modes:

In general, there is one rule of thumb:

DO NOT REINFORCE PREVIOUS WAVES.

So many times I see a player get blown out of their 'Mech, drop into their next and instantly charge back into the fight.

Think of it this way: there is 30 minutes of gameplay, if you take 2 minutes 30 seconds to reach the opposing team and start taking damage, you can be blown out of that 'Mech in less than 60 seconds. The game allows respawns to happen every 30 seconds: so drop, run straight back to the fight (another 2 minutes and 30 seconds) and get blown out of that 'Mech. In the space of 7 minutes and 30 seconds, you've lost half of your 'Mechs and if you were focussed down that quickly, most likely didn't take an enemy 'Mech with you or do more than 100 damage per 'Mech.

So, if you die and there are some friendly 'Mechs still fighting on the other side of the map or inside the Siege base: WAIT. Be patient and regroup with anyone that has dropped in their next wave 'Mech, preferably somewhere close to your spawn or in a good strategic position.

Now this one is a bit more map/mode specific.

Attack (or Defence in most cases) on a Siege map:

* 1st drop should be your heaviest, most powerful 'Mech build. This will allow you to bring down the turrets and gates while absorbing incoming fire from both the turrets and opposing players.

If you start to take too much damage, get out of the line of fire but don't hide. Move around your teammates, shift positions to peak the opposition and turrets, if you take fire from an opposing player move and fire again but fire as often as you can. Different Siege maps have strong and weak arguments for getting in the gate/gates quickly, you will learn which is which with time.

Obviously turrets are not an issue when defending in Siege but if the opposing team are in high damage Assaults / Heavies, what are the chances of you surviving or being useful in a solo Light 'Mech? (Unless you are spotting for the LRM users mentioned earlier....hmmm, tactics).

ANYWAY, apologies, this turned into a H U G E post and I'm sure a lot of readers will get bored a quarter of the way down and think "it's a GitGud" post. For the purpose of learning the mode and possibly enjoying it more, I hopefully helped a little.

The TLDR is: there is a LOT of information to process and implement: speak to experienced players in Discord or message them and ask for help. There are still a lot of helpful players out there, even if many of us are tired, auld, cranky, jaded.... erm... yeah...

GET OFF MY LAWN!!

Edited by xX PUG Xx, 17 June 2023 - 07:22 AM.

[KursedVixen]

Jenbu, on 16 June 2023 - 07:34 AM, said:

I've beaten premades with pugs before. It requires a shot caller who knows what they're doing and everyone willing to listen and use comms. It's rare but is very rewarding and I'm sure demoralizing for the premades.

it's not impossible just kinda rare.

Ignatius Audene, on 14 June 2023 - 09:09 AM, said:

if u are spawn camped->game is over no matter the tech. Don't derail every topic in "IS OP pls nerv".Ssimply skill difference.

I dunno where in the name of KErensky you picked up the specific words to say that I was saying something is Over powered I just simply state exactly what happend to me when i played faction play which is that clans have the advantage at range and Is has the close range advantage

Or are you wanting me to complain about how something is OP in this game??? (be careful what you wish for or, possibly hint at with what you say)

Edited by KursedVixen, 17 June 2023 - 08:13 AM.

[Mechwarrior2342356]

Nobody has really answered the unspoken question here:

Why would the bulk of the playerbase bother with a mode where you wait longer than QP for a worse match than QP that drags on longer than QP with even more vitriol directed at their presence than QP

Faction play sucks bad enough that the diehards can barely keep it alive without an event with rewards to bait in randos.

Why does FP suck?

Because it's inhabited by FP players.

Edited by the check engine light, 17 June 2023 - 09:03 PM.

[Duke Falcon]

the check engine light, on 17 June 2023 - 09:01 PM, said:

Nobody has really answered the unspoken question here:

Why would the bulk of the playerbase bother with a mode where you wait longer than QP for a worse match than QP that drags on longer than QP with even more vitriol directed at their presence than QP

Faction play sucks bad enough that the diehards can barely keep it alive without an event with rewards to bait in randos.

Why does FP suck?

Because it's inhabited by FP players.

I often hear that FP players are w@ng-teated elitist crotch-bewbs and such. How they are toxic and curse you because you appear even and just in the queue...
I not met with such things, really. I must say my teams so far always tolerated that I am "far below their skill level" and some even granted me advices. Or shot by your team mates considered toxic? Or foul speech? I hard to imagine, repeat, as I not met with such things.
The difficulty level of FP? Sure more challenging than QP and need different play-style. But that is the point: The challenge!
You know what a feeling when you defeat an opponent far superior than you? Worth that lots of failures I think. And FP also has some unique feel I think. I prefer FP over QP since my cadet time and thus I find it sad that FP matches are so rare (long wait times, yes, but more players should cut the time). I would really appreciate some changes like randomise attackers\defenders. Some more events - not because the rewards but the many new players whom may stay and return later.

Why does FP sucks? It does not.
But QP-lovers often forget that FP need some special approach. No yolo-nascar zumm-zumm around (what strategy I still find odd when met with it in QP, I mean why nascaring at all?!)...
But we could flip the things: Why QP sucks? Because it's inhabited by QP players?
Seriously, some QP players are... <censored for the sake of all gods>. I met a brain-damaged jerk in every third QP matches. But hey! Why the question why FP sucks? QP sucks as much because RL people has no "quality check\controll".

If you want to pin-point the troubles of FP, sure, do it! It has some, really. But why always just FP is investigated? QP is not the virgin mother of the savior but much more the butt of devil. Both modes has it's qualities, troubles, errors. What even PGI seems to forgotten is how to exploit the DIFFERENCES between the two modes and so far they failed it miserably (maybe not only their fault I admit)...

[xX PUG Xx]

the check engine light, on 17 June 2023 - 09:01 PM, said:

Nobody has really answered the unspoken question here:

Why would the bulk of the playerbase bother with a mode where you wait longer than QP for a worse match than QP that drags on longer than QP with even more vitriol directed at their presence than QP

Faction play sucks bad enough that the diehards can barely keep it alive without an event with rewards to bait in randos.

Why does FP suck?

Because it's inhabited by FP players.

Hmmm... pretty sure I started a casual unit that was based on only playing FP, took in new players that wanted to learn and play as part of a team. We welcomed players, helped them with builds, called drops with PuG's and solos and generally were pretty relaxed......BUT the number of times I was told by "casual" players during a game that they weren't interested in following the calls or even sticking with the team and that I "shouldn't be telling them what to do" eventually stopped me from calling and now even talking over VOIP.

So, in my experience the "solo" players are actually the ones with toxic behaviour and I've gotten to the point where, if I play at all, I only use the comm wheel and stay silent otherwise.

Edited by xX PUG Xx, 18 June 2023 - 01:16 AM.