325 replies to this topic

[0 Damage]

You killed machine guns. Now decided to finish off the LRM?

[JOATMON Incorporated]

I am excited to see new weapons being added! I will need to see how they handle, but so far the HAGs sound about right. (The unholy child of a gauss and an LBX).

I was very surprised to see the X Pulse implementation is basically energy machine guns. It will be very interesting to see how that pans out. I can potentially see that breathing life into a number of light mechs who currently get passed over for their MG heavy brothers. Light mechs with a mix of energy and ballistics may benefit the most in the long run.

The only weapon here that seemed a bit confusing initially was the binary laser. The damage/heat ratio looks a lot like the original ratios posted before it was fixed in errata in the tabletop rules (The original publication had the values inverted.) That said this Binary Cannon seems to have a shorter range, and it has a long duration for the shot. This now just seems like its an IS take on the Heavy Lasers so it fills a niche.

BTW I am super excited about the War Emu for the name alone. I started laughing as soon as I saw it while I had a friend on the phone. I had explain what the Australian Emu War was. It also helps that I really like Stalker mechs! Snagging that one for sure on Tues.

[JOATMON Incorporated]

0 Damage, on 18 August 2023 - 10:53 PM, said:

You killed machine guns. Now decided to finish off the LRM?

This isn't going to kill LRMs for 2 simple reasons.
1. IS mechs can't use HAG
2. (More importantly) HAG can't fire indirectly.
Now, ATMs on the other hand... ATM's are possibly going to have a really bad time. Compare a pair of ATM9 launchers vs a single HAG 20.

Also I don't think this patch is going to kill machine guns. MGs can fire heat free while Xpulse do not. I expect the Xpulses will frequently get used in conjunction with the MGs. This should open up some knife fighting options for some mechs which previously didn't have the right hard points to support it.

Edited by JOATMON Incorporated, 18 August 2023 - 11:15 PM.

[KursedVixen]

JOATMON Incorporated, on 18 August 2023 - 11:15 PM, said:

This isn't going to kill LRMs for 2 simple reasons.
1. IS mechs can't use HAG
2. (More importantly) HAG can't fire indirectly.
Now, ATMs on the other hand... ATM's are possibly going to have a really bad time. Compare a pair of ATM9 launchers vs a single HAG 20.

Also I don't think this patch is going to kill machine guns. MGs can fire heat free while Xpulse do not. I expect the Xpulses will frequently get used in conjunction with the MGs. This should open up some knife fighting options for some mechs which previously didn't have the right hard points to support it.

what about the heavy ppc being made obsolete by the binary laser?

How are ATMs going to be replaced by HAG? They are completely diffrent weapon types HAGs are ballstic while Atms are missiles even in omnimechs your still somewhat limted on slots you can't fit a AC2 in where a ATm9 goes.

Edited by KursedVixen, 18 August 2023 - 11:28 PM.

[Tarogato]

Hawk819, on 18 August 2023 - 09:12 PM, said:

How will HAG work off the skill tree other than ammo of +8?

Hyper-Assault Gauss Rifles ... ... are gauss rifles. They get all of the skill tree and quirk bonuses that apply to gauss rifles.

Similar for X-Pulse, they are pulse lasers and will benefit the same quirks. Ie., if something has MPL quirks, it will also benefit MXPL. (as far as I am aware)

And Binary Lasers are just compound large lasers. If something has a quirk for "Large Laser" then it will also apply to Binaries, since Binaries are just two large lasers strapped together.

0 Damage, on 18 August 2023 - 10:53 PM, said:

You killed machine guns. Now decided to finish off the LRM?

JOATMON Incorporated, on 18 August 2023 - 11:15 PM, said:

This isn't going to kill LRMs for 2 simple reasons.
1. IS mechs can't use HAG
2. (More importantly) HAG can't fire indirectly.
Now, ATMs on the other hand... ATM's are possibly going to have a really bad time. Compare a pair of ATM9 launchers vs a single HAG 20. [...]

LRMs are getting a slight velocity nerf because ECM directly counters LRM and the majority of ECM carriers are being nerfed because it's been determined that ECM is too strong in general. Cauldron is just extremely wary of setting off another lurm apocalypse.

[Tarogato]

KursedVixen, on 18 August 2023 - 11:23 PM, said:

what about the heavy ppc being made obsolete by the binary laser?

They fill completely different roles. Heavy PPC is pinpoint front-loaded damage. You can poptart with it. You can snapshot with it. That said, it's already mostly fallen out of favour because it often doesn't deal enough damage in the grand scheme of things. But Binaries do not compete in the same niche; very far from it.

The weapon that has to worry about being obsoleted is the standard Large Laser.

[SafeScanner]

the Quirks on the new legend mechs are hidden

[BobTheBully]

I haven't been this excited for a patch in a long time, keep up the amazing work guys!

[SCHLIMMER BESTIMMER XXX]

Staude, on 18 August 2023 - 06:09 PM, said:

first the clan weapons are so annoyed that they become nonsense and then you bring out new weapons?
it's all about selling and getting money out of the game

afaik weapons ingame never cost mc, and i am sure they never will

[SCHLIMMER BESTIMMER XXX]

what about the haven_kendrick sound mod? will it gonna break with the new weapons?
shoud we delete it until an update is out (if there ever will be such)?

[Samziel]

SCHLIMMER BESTIMMER XXX, on 19 August 2023 - 12:12 AM, said:

what about the haven_kendrick sound mod? will it gonna break with the new weapons?
shoud we delete it until an update is out (if there ever will be such)?

I think Navid said they wont work after this patch until the modders update them.

Edited by Samziel, 19 August 2023 - 12:26 AM.

[KursedVixen]

BountyHunteer, on 18 August 2023 - 05:26 PM, said:

IDK what tier you play in, but where I am, I see stone rhino's ALL the time. they don't need a buff.

yes Rhinos are fine they're fairly tanky from my expierience and can carry good weapons, my issue is as always what weapons.... but yeah Rhinos are totally fine they don't need nerfed or buffed. I imagine we might see some carrying HAGs...

Edited by KursedVixen, 19 August 2023 - 12:36 AM.

[0 Damage]

KursedVixen, on 18 August 2023 - 11:23 PM, said:

what about the heavy ppc being made obsolete by the binary laser?

How are ATMs going to be replaced by HAG? They are completely diffrent weapon types HAGs are ballstic while Atms are missiles even in omnimechs your still somewhat limted on slots you can't fit a AC2 in where a ATm9 goes.

What does HUG and lasers have to do with it? I was talking about how the machine guns had their critical damage reduced earlier, which actually killed them. Especially the Clans. Now they have reduced the speed of the LRM. LRM almost died anyway, and this is another nail in her coffin.

[MechB Kotare]

Quote

Components on the player and enemy paper doll now flash twice quickly, taking only 0.5 seconds before updating the color on the paper doll, giving the player information about self or enemy damage status much quicker. Currently, paperdoll components flash three times, taking 1.5 seconds before updating the damage status.

WOW! Nice! Can't believe it took 10 years to change that... Good QoL!

[The Chancelor]

I love the new weapon content. The mechanics among us now have a lot to do again.

EXCELSIOR!

[johnnyq666]

SafeScanner, on 19 August 2023 - 12:03 AM, said:

the Quirks on the new legend mechs are hidden

lol, no ?

leaked on Ash podcast with Tiyos

Viper set of 4/6/8 huge srm quirks and Stalker 0 quirks only some armor

Edited by johnnyq666, 19 August 2023 - 02:45 AM.

[C337Skymaster]

Tarogato, on 18 August 2023 - 11:39 PM, said:

They fill completely different roles. Heavy PPC is pinpoint front-loaded damage. You can poptart with it. You can snapshot with it. That said, it's already mostly fallen out of favour because it often doesn't deal enough damage in the grand scheme of things. But Binaries do not compete in the same niche; very far from it.

The weapon that has to worry about being obsoleted is the standard Large Laser.

Uhm.... MAD 4A w/ 8 BLC's? Will that even work? It was terrifying enough with 8 regular large lasers.

[SafeScanner]

Has the Pink scrapyard been fixed?

[Runecarver]

Tarogato, on 18 August 2023 - 11:28 PM, said:

LRMs are getting a slight velocity nerf because ECM directly counters LRM and the majority of ECM carriers are being nerfed because it's been determined that ECM is too strong in general. Cauldron is just extremely wary of setting off another lurm apocalypse.

Except thats a load of dung and nonsense. Nothing is actually changing since a 3.5% reduction per node, for a total of 7%, will still mean a skilled out ECM reduces sensor ranges by 63%. So those "LrM aPoCaLyPSe" mechs are only spotting CLAN mechs at 378m now, rather than at 307m. Wow, such a MASSIVE nerf to ECM. Give me a break. Clan ER mediums have optimum ranges longer than that, so they'll STILL BE INVISIBLE. ECM is still a massive ez mode umbrella, and IS ECM is still giving that 70% sensor range reduction benefit to all allies within 120 meters.

And while the clowns of the chamberpot pretend like LRMs receiving anything beneficial would lead to an "apocalypse" they'll happily super quirk mechs, design power creeped legendaries for PGI that invalidate pretty much all regular variants of a chassis as well as the hero variant, and make lasers, PPCs and ballistics vomit out more damage than their own super survival quirks can compensate for.

Edited by Runecarver, 19 August 2023 - 03:40 AM.

[JumpingHunter]

Binary Laser Cannon seems legitimately OP, from a perspective of a PPC user. Heavy PPC is now obsolete and useless in most of the situations, as Binary Laser does practically everything better than Heavy PPC.

It already wasn't very popular because of Light PPCs having more damage/better range/better heat with even less tonnage (9 tons for 3 LPPC and 16.5 damage vs 10 tons for HPPC and 15 damage with min range), And now we get what is practically a Heavy PPC equivalent in laser wewapon family, except instead of dealing 50% more damage than LL it deals 100% more, wth much better heat and MUCH better cooldown.

So now we have 2 heavy energy options:
1) Heavy PPC with 15 damage, 5 seconds of cooldown, relatively average travel speed, minimum range, 540 opt range and 10 tons of weight.
2) Binary Laser with 18 damage over JUST 1.15 seconds duration, only 3.6 seconds cooldown (33% less, VERY big difference), no travel time for hitscan weapon, no minimal range for hitscan weapon, no PPC related hitreg issues, LESS HEA THAN LESS DAMAGING HEAVY PPC, and 1 less ton, being at 9 tons of weight.

I am very sad that it's so damn unbalanced stat-wise, because Heavy PPC just recieved a buff for it's minimal range, and now you take it away by making it obsolete. Binary Laser should get 5 seconds cooldown, like HPPC (My reasoning is that it's 2 LLs being powered by only single energy outlet of single weapon slot in a mech, energy outlet can't power so powerful weapon THAT quickly), and FAR MORE heat generation, about the same as HLL.

Otherwise we just will be left with better HPPC with no min range, less heat, less weight, more damage, and no travel time and hitreg issues. It's just not right to make one weapon SO obsolete.

And to anybody who will say that you can poptart with HPPC - you also can do that with lasers. And Binary Laser has short enough duration to be viable poptart weapon. Even HLL poptarting is effective, and here we have same thing, but less cooldown and less heat. And as for PPFLD - concentrating a laser beam on one component is not THAT hard as you make it look like. It's a common skill that people leart to use - and at one point it's not much different from pinpoint weapons.

Plus standard large laser Is left behind too. Now there is not much reason to use 2 of them instead of 1 Binary Laser, which is not really good too. Making weapons obsolete is simply bad for balance, you basically delete another weapon after adding new one, because it doesn't have use anymore.