217 replies to this topic

[RockmachinE]

YES YOU ARE CORRECT... ITS JUST HIGH DAMAGE AND NOTHING ELSE. HAG IS NOT WORTH IT. MOVE ALONG!

[Bassault]

Why do I even bother...?

[foamyesque]

Bassault, on 07 September 2023 - 02:46 PM, said:

I'm not a fan of hags, and I don't think they're entirely balanced or unbalanced either, but you have to admit hags farm a lot of unnecessary damage, and thus your damage score may not be the best indicator on how well you actually did.

Hey, as far as PSR is concerned, damage is damage and worth more than playing the objective, so clearly HAGs are the best weapon skill-wise.

[MrTBSC]

Athom83, on 01 September 2023 - 07:30 AM, said:

As strong as HAGs are, this is correct. As much as they murder Heavies and Assaults with ease, they're pretty poor in outright deleting Lights and Mediums like single shot weapons can. That said, each shot in the spread are still doing 5 damage each. It's much easier to delete Lights and Mediums with them than say LBs or lower velocity stream weapons like UACs and RACs. Plus if you have experience in other games that require you to understand how to lead, hitting fast moving targets is a lot easier to do. You'll still miss shots most definitely, nobody has a 100% accuracy despite what a lot of people try to make it sound like, but even if you hit half of the spread at 600m you're still doing like 20-30 damage to the legs with a dual HAG build.

the core problem will still be the skill desparity between tiers you can say "git good" as much as you want (people play for fun, not for being pros afterall) but it wont matter much on players with a positional/repositional mindset and those more skilled to know to stay mobile anyway ...

any player with an ER, LRM, pin point gauss or ranged fire support loadout won´t move much and as such eat most or all of the HAG´s burst damage more often ... it´s even more devastating on any IS heavy that dares to run an XL engine like a rifleman or jaegermech ... on an IS assault you may as well forget it entirely anyway with HAG 80 builds around as they are now ... if such a mech is catched by the HAG boater in midrange it´s more or less GG ...


i run a Fafnir 5E MRM 120 + MG build which i just don´t see survive long enough against a dual HAG 40 Kodiak or quad HAG 20 Direwolf/Stonerhino, and before you say it i don´t see a Marauder 2 with the same MRM build be any more succesful ...

triple rac 2+triple AC5 Annihilator even with propper pre spool up i may eat the entire burst before i could retialiate the DPS with the ammount of facetime needed

i use similar builds on my archer and roughneck ... a quad LB2 Jeager
a rac5 Hunchback ... using HAG will win over these weapons in both initiative and effective damage compared to the rangebracket of these weapons

Edited by MrTBSC, 08 September 2023 - 02:11 PM.

[Ghostrider0067]

I've been away from the game for a while after having been sucked in by others I enjoy. That said, I've played around a bit on the test range and find that...

The Binary is VERY strong and devastating if you have a steady hand and a mech with good quirks to keep the heat gen and cooldown low.

The X-Pulse is interesting in that you have a trade-ff between slow heat build over time for the DPS or front loaded damage with a longer cooldown when compared to a traditional pulse. Seeing that I've not taken return fire from anyone yet while using them, I can't vouch for the effectiveness either way.

[Meep Meep]

For those hoping for a hag nerf welp nope. After viewing the leaked patch notes its a 'rebalance' of stats. The heat nerf is meaningless unless you are boating them with hot weapons and then only sustainability will be effected. The delay between pellets nerf is only going to effect those with not so good aim as its only a few ~hundredths~ of a second increase between pellets. But dispersion is getting a buff so they are more like the hag20 with its much tighter grouping at range. Sorry but the hagcat lives on.

[The6thMessenger]

Having tried it for a while, and even more, I am honestly boggled by the complaints of it being OP, or even UP and bad.

**** is doing between 20 to 80 damage, a pop, and it isn't the LRM ******** that needs lock, shut down by AMS, its something you can focus and delete components with good aim. But it is still nonetheless spread out, if a mech can land all 8 shells of a HAG40 on you, you probably deserved it.

KursedVixen, on 07 September 2023 - 02:35 PM, said:

As stated here for the rest of you damage does not equal kills and actually if people all knew how the score system worked people would be killing alot less and getting just damage to get a higher score.... you actually get more for a higher damage than you do for a higher amount of kills.

High damage means you aren't being effective in focusing the damage, that would incapacitate the target by say destroying a component, or coring them out. Sure.

But that doesn't mean it's not doing anything, it's the same philosophy with LRMs -- problem is that LRMs suck at it by way of immense spread and reliance on lock-on to be effective. HAGs can be focused, so get close enough and or good aim, it can delete a component. As for that spread around, is still a **** ton damage to offset after the fact, means you're still getting rather soft to the detriment of your other engagements.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 08 September 2023 - 08:06 PM.

[Meep Meep]

Spraying targets with long range hag fire means they are just that much closer to being cored when they hit the fight proper. Do you want to face an assault at 100% or 70%?

[MrTBSC]

the check engine light, on 08 September 2023 - 07:59 PM, said:

Blazers will still be pretty bugfuck nuts after the HSL fix. It'll probably be a patch after that where they get revisited. The sheer quantity of beam barf between the existing Clan stuff and now this is pretty damn high.

aside from the HSL fix it maybe could do with 1 point of dmg less and maybe 1 point of heat more ...
but honestly considering the baseweight i personaly don´t find them that crazy but maybe that´s just me ...
think about it if it isn´t Binary Lasers it would be ER larges, LPL or quad+ LLs anyway .. and people are more in that phase right now of trying them out ... still there is more to play around on inner sphere builds that i think contributes to not see AS MANY Laser or Blaser vomit builds on the IS side ...

However Clan ER and pulse vomit has ALWAYS been a thing i am just super tired seeing .. yes it´s effective yes it does its job it´s supposed to do but my god does it get old fast .. that said i still would like to see a small heat buff to medium heavy lasers as i feel these still are underutilised ..



X Pulse is pretty underwhelming imo

SmokedJag, on 07 September 2023 - 03:11 PM, said:

I put HAG80 on a Kodiak 3 with four ERML to finish the job. 104 damage alpha strike.

Even at range it's still more or less the Quad Gauss bear, minus the engine handicap and plus the ability to walk shots slightly for at least chip damage. I've blasted some people who did shift as I released the trigger.

Fun, but they're too good.

once i get my hand on the stone rhino im gonna try this one

https://mwo.nav-alph...b=167a18f7_SR-4

[Hauptmann Keg Steiner]

Honestly once they work out the HSL Binaries are fine as is, but Large Lasers could stand to be buffed. It's not like they were super popular before Binaries existed.

[FlareUKCS]

Just me or is the weapon balance really off, I mean most of the lore weapons are based on table top ideas, so when you fire a PPC at a cockpit in the tabletop, you probably miss... in MWO, its a hit so mechs that are usually tanky end up cored in seconds.
Imagine a Atlas in a battle that gets cored in a few shots... yeah the assualt class is not a thing, just shoot the big thing in the middle.
Now PGi are trying to make it a FPS... who cares if you buy a Marauder... it will be cored faster than a flea, it has a bigger target to hit.
I mean if a Ebon Jag with clan heavies cant take on a light, and gets cored because well... the light moves much faster than the EBJ can twist to aim.

Is this lore or just a cold calculated pilfering of the fanbase ?

Personally I used to take a old fashioned HBK 4G into all sorts of fights, and somehow I would survive... these days my old Tinman (HBK 4G) just gets cored as soon as I have visual... dont need to see the hunch just core the centre, its all too easy.

[Curccu]

FlareUKCS, on 10 September 2023 - 07:32 PM, said:

Just me or is the weapon balance really off, I mean most of the lore weapons are based on table top ideas, so when you fire a PPC at a cockpit in the tabletop, you probably miss... in MWO, its a hit so mechs that are usually tanky end up cored in seconds.
Imagine a Atlas in a battle that gets cored in a few shots... yeah the assualt class is not a thing, just shoot the big thing in the middle.
Now PGi are trying to make it a FPS... who cares if you buy a Marauder... it will be cored faster than a flea, it has a bigger target to hit.
I mean if a Ebon Jag with clan heavies cant take on a light, and gets cored because well... the light moves much faster than the EBJ can twist to aim.

Is this lore or just a cold calculated pilfering of the fanbase ?

Personally I used to take a old fashioned HBK 4G into all sorts of fights, and somehow I would survive... these days my old Tinman (HBK 4G) just gets cored as soon as I have visual... dont need to see the hunch just core the centre, its all too easy.

FPS game isn't and cannot be same as TT where you roll dices. It would be extremely silly gameplay to be able to shoot once every 10 seconds.
Atlas can take insane beating

That same Marauder can one shot that flea and no most of the lights cannot move faster than EBJ can twist and those that can have to be extremely close to EBJ, like sub 50 meters close.

Faster and less revealing peeks (if you need your hunch and cockpit to have line of sight to enemy to shoot it, don't expose your whole mech), movement and twisting prolongs your life a lot.

[Meep Meep]

Trying to circle jerk assaults in a light is long gone overall due to anchor turn being so easy to get now. You can do it in a pack or at the lower tiers but mostly you want to be using your agility to keep poking cover and plinking in rear shots a few hundred meters away.

[MrTBSC]

FlareUKCS, on 10 September 2023 - 07:32 PM, said:

Is this lore ?

why ever give a damn about lore in a multplayer focused videogame?
if some lorefans had their way lights would be unplayable pieces of thrash ... so screw that line of thought ..
you don´t want lore accurate ... you want fun .. and lights having less than jack scrap of a chance against assaults in any way is not fun ... and don´t tell me "play as scout then"

you want your atlas scoutlance powercreep? play any of the singleplayer focused games then ...

Edited by MrTBSC, 11 September 2023 - 01:47 PM.

[MrTBSC]

Hauptmann Keg Steiner, on 10 September 2023 - 05:33 PM, said:

Honestly once they work out the HSL Binaries are fine as is, but Large Lasers could stand to be buffed. It's not like they were super popular before Binaries existed.

hmmm i don´t know when it came to lasers i mosty hovered around large laser instead of ER or pulse
pulse feels to heavy, er too hot for the range ..

Edited by MrTBSC, 11 September 2023 - 02:33 PM.

[Bassault]

FlareUKCS, on 10 September 2023 - 07:32 PM, said:

Just me or is the weapon balance really off, I mean most of the lore weapons are based on table top ideas, so when you fire a PPC at a cockpit in the tabletop, you probably miss... in MWO, its a hit so mechs that are usually tanky end up cored in seconds.
Imagine a Atlas in a battle that gets cored in a few shots... yeah the assualt class is not a thing, just shoot the big thing in the middle.
Now PGi are trying to make it a FPS... who cares if you buy a Marauder... it will be cored faster than a flea, it has a bigger target to hit.
I mean if a Ebon Jag with clan heavies cant take on a light, and gets cored because well... the light moves much faster than the EBJ can twist to aim.

Is this lore or just a cold calculated pilfering of the fanbase ?

Personally I used to take a old fashioned HBK 4G into all sorts of fights, and somehow I would survive... these days my old Tinman (HBK 4G) just gets cored as soon as I have visual... dont need to see the hunch just core the centre, its all too easy.

If you're getting cored instantly this is a skill issue not a game issue. Mechs in this game are incredibly tanky. Try twisting, keep mvoing when youre being shot and using cover correctly. Don't ever sit still while someone you don't see on the side of your screen cores you out.

[ThreeStooges]

I'm just going to keep lrming. No one can stop the lrm atlas! No one!

[Vonbach]

Hags and blaserz never should've been added to the game in the first place.
Blaserz at least have heat to balance them but its not enough.
Hags are nothing more than a clan ac 30 or 40 with a 600m range.
What the hell were they thinking?

Edited by Vonbach, 11 September 2023 - 03:41 PM.

[Meep Meep]

Vonbach, on 11 September 2023 - 03:41 PM, said:

Hags and blaserz never should've been added to the game in the first place.
Blaserz at least have heat to balance them but its not enough.
Hags are nothing more than a clan ac 30 or 40 with a 600m range.
What the hell were they thinking?

Blazers are no worse than clan heavy lasers. Matter of fact thats basically what they are with the normal IS penalty on slot size and weight. And it still only narrows the lasvom gap. Though I suppose there are those who want it overall nerfed not added to.

HAG are certainly a charge up clan ac with gauss velocity but with an 810m range not 600m. The nerf I would like to see if they really want to rein it in is slow the velocity down to clan er ppc or maybe even slower. Part of the reason they are so good is the super high velocity (2500~3000ms depending on quirks and skills) makes leading targets much easier especially with the pellet stream.

[pbiggz]

Vonbach, on 11 September 2023 - 03:41 PM, said:

Hags and blaserz never should've been added to the game in the first place.
Blaserz at least have heat to balance them but its not enough.
Hags are nothing more than a clan ac 30 or 40 with a 600m range.
What the hell were they thinking?

I don't really care if you like them or not, anyone who is unironically making the argument that the way forward for this game is stagnation (i.e. not adding things/removing what just got added) is not anchored in reality.