217 replies to this topic

[Weeny Machine]

The6thMessenger, on 02 September 2023 - 09:58 PM, said:

So I reinstalled and gave HAGs a try.

I don't know what people are belly aching about it being OP. It's a very VERY unwieldy weapon, it's long volley is hard to lead, is spread at long range, and the worst offender is the god damn charge mechanic. If a HAG40 can land all it's shot on you, you certainly deserved it.

I'd argue removing the charge mechanic, because it's just making it's use even worse, and it's not like it's Gauss that is PPFLD, it's volley-fired already.

But then I'm afraid that it'd actually be too good at that point, I'm not a comp to gauge.

I love to saw off feet at midrange. Try that

[Kynesis]

What the game really needed was more high damage pin-point, long range damage.
These new weapons make matches even more efficient, especially for coordinated groups.

[MechB Kotare]

Kynesis, on 03 September 2023 - 02:56 AM, said:

What the game really needed was more high damage pin-point, long range damage.
These new weapons make matches even more efficient, especially for coordinated groups.

Except HAGs and Blazers are not Pinpoint but burst ballistics and duration hitscans... Also Hags suck at long range. Blazers are only 480m optimal damage and their effectiveness drops rapidly the further they shoot.

What this game really needs is people having absolutely no clue what are they talking about.

But yeah, hags are pretty much better than UAC/ACs at close to medium range.

Edited by MechB Kotare, 03 September 2023 - 07:07 AM.

[foamyesque]

hAgS aReN't SnIpEr WeApOnS

[MechB Kotare]

Having high damage with high alpha ballistics that spread across entire mech doesn't prove, that they are better at long range engagements than Gauss/ERLL. How do i know you didnt fight at short to medium range most of the time? I admitted they are pretty nasty at shorter ranges. Next time, post recording of the match before trying to prove something.

You wanna have a long range (sniping) duel? I'll use cGauss/cERLL and you can do HAGs, and we'll see what weapon is better at ''sniping''.

Edited by MechB Kotare, 03 September 2023 - 01:45 PM.

[foamyesque]

MechB Kotare, on 03 September 2023 - 01:42 PM, said:

Having high damage with high alpha ballistics that spread across entire mech doesn't prove, that they are better at long range engagements that Gauss/ERLL. How do i know you didnt fight at short to medium range most of the time? I admitted they are pretty nasty at shorter ranges. Next time, post recording of the match before trying to prove something.

You wanna have a long range (sniping) duel? I'll use cGauss/cERLL and you can do HAGs, and we'll see what weapon is better at ''sniping''.

Sure, I'll trade with HAG30s against cGauss all day every day. ERLLs on top doesn't matter since you can do it with either weapon system -- and 2x HAG30 2x ERLL is, in point of actual fact, the build I was running.

I can have a 50% miss rate and still have damage parity with cGauss. It's not a fight the cGauss wins if the engagement is reasonably equal.

Edited by foamyesque, 03 September 2023 - 01:47 PM.

[foamyesque]

Thiccacuga, on 02 September 2023 - 02:02 PM, said:

And you don't HAVE to go peeking out like you would for normal lasers because of the extremely short duration. Xpulse aren't heavy, people are just treating them like pulse lasers and getting mad when they don't work the exact same way.

If you want truly instant fire and back into cover, then you run PPCs in an energy slot, which frontloads all your damage into the shortest window possible, and if you only keep an XPulse on target for the burn duration of a standard pulse, you've done less damage than said normal pulse. For example, being generous, you can get two MXPL shots in during the burn of an MPL (0.25s burn, 0.25s CD, 0.25s burn = 0.75s; MPL burn duration, 0.6s). That gets you 2.4 damage to an MPL's 6.

If you retreat at that point, the MPL's slower DPS doesn't matter because you aren't shooting anyway. And if you press, you're facetiming where an MPL boat wouldn't have to and could've, at minimum, twisted.

The upshot here is that XPLs are complete garbage compared to every other weapon system bar RACs and machineguns at doing up-front damage, which *demands* that they be used in staring matches to shove their DPS advantage -- and their DPS advantage isn't strong enough to cover that.

[martian]

foamyesque, on 03 September 2023 - 01:06 PM, said:

hAgS aReN't SnIpEr WeApOnS

Congrats! Good game!

[Weeny Machine]

foamyesque, on 03 September 2023 - 07:16 PM, said:

If you want truly instant fire and back into cover, then you run PPCs in an energy slot, which frontloads all your damage into the shortest window possible, and if you only keep an XPulse on target for the burn duration of a standard pulse, you've done less damage than said normal pulse. For example, being generous, you can get two MXPL shots in during the burn of an MPL (0.25s burn, 0.25s CD, 0.25s burn = 0.75s; MPL burn duration, 0.6s). That gets you 2.4 damage to an MPL's 6.

If you retreat at that point, the MPL's slower DPS doesn't matter because you aren't shooting anyway. And if you press, you're facetiming where an MPL boat wouldn't have to and could've, at minimum, twisted.

The upshot here is that XPLs are complete garbage compared to every other weapon system bar RACs and machineguns at doing up-front damage, which *demands* that they be used in staring matches to shove their DPS advantage -- and their DPS advantage isn't strong enough to cover that.

Exactly what I say the whole time. People act as if it is easy to have uptime in this game environment...where peek-a-boo with high alphas is the name of the game. To make x-pulse lasers usable they need a significant boost in damage but I also don't see that happen because 1. this would shake the peek-a-boo meta in its core - and we know who is doing the balancing and responsible for the current dull meta, 2. the comps would be as so often the root of all evil and run 4 meta x-pulse boats in casual QP to roll casuals even faster.

By the way, the whole DPS weapons suffer from that problem to a more or less extend. Since HAGs were introduced I hardly see any RACs. AC/5 seem to have become completely extinct as well.

Also, the usage of close range weapons like SRMs seems to have taken a blow as well except seeing now and then an odd Arctic Wolf SRM boat


At the moment and with the introduction of the new weapons it seems that the mid-/long range alpha meta is at its height. I think the development of the game is pretty at the end. What else they can do? Maybe ARROW IV for ultra long range multi sniping hahaha

Edited by Weeny Machine, 04 September 2023 - 12:18 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

MechB Kotare, on 03 September 2023 - 01:42 PM, said:

You wanna have a long range (sniping) duel? I'll use cGauss/cERLL and you can do HAGs, and we'll see what weapon is better at ''sniping''.

Yeah, but come on, you think that 5 damage/slug x8 x2 damage bloat ain't doing nothing?

You can pin-point damage all you like, but overwhelming damage can compensate the same if enough is done -- say 2x HAG40s.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 04 September 2023 - 12:43 AM.

[Kynesis]

MechB Kotare, on 03 September 2023 - 07:06 AM, said:

Except HAGs and Blazers are not Pinpoint but burst ballistics and duration hitscans... Also Hags suck at long range. Blazers are only 480m optimal damage and their effectiveness drops rapidly the further they shoot.

What this game really needs is people having absolutely no clue what are they talking about.

But yeah, hags are pretty much better than UAC/ACs at close to medium range.

This is splitting hairs. The durations are short and it's not rocket surgery to land them where you want them in the vast majority of conditions.
To your second point, the game has an abundance of people who know exactly what they're talking about and straw man anything and everything that doesn't suit the top percentages of players, who also just happen to benefit most from weapons like these.

[Curccu]

MechB Kotare, on 03 September 2023 - 07:06 AM, said:

Except HAGs and Blazers are not Pinpoint but burst ballistics and duration hitscans... Also Hags suck at long range. Blazers are only 480m optimal damage and their effectiveness drops rapidly the further they shoot.

What this game really needs is people having absolutely no clue what are they talking about.

But yeah, hags are pretty much better than UAC/ACs at close to medium range.

Lazors are pinpoint...with duration but still pinpoint, there is no random spread in them.

[foamyesque]

martian, on 03 September 2023 - 08:33 PM, said:

Congrats! Good game!

Thanks, it was!

Made a questionable decision at the end to drop off my sniper perch to try to save my last teammate, ate sniper fire and shots from both an SRM Arctic Wolf and MPG's Pheonix Hawk as a result. If I'd stayed up, I probably could've taken the ACW and PHX without them being able to shoot back, and so I'd've had more armour to deal with the fresh Thanatos that eventually got me. Didn't help that I ran out of ammo getting MPG, meant I didn't get the Wolf in one shot so he was able to fire on me while the guns cycled. More ammo and/or not dropping and I think I might have been able to take the Thanatos.

No idea what status the Sleipnir was at, though.

EDIT: After checking MPG's stream, it was fresh, I was screwed either way :v

Edited by foamyesque, 04 September 2023 - 11:22 AM.

[foamyesque]

MechB Kotare, on 03 September 2023 - 01:42 PM, said:

Next time, post recording of the match before trying to prove something.

Well, I wasn't recording, but as it happens, MPG was streaming, so you can see it from their PoV.


https://www.twitch.t...deos/1916360332

Match starts at ~19:38.

[Duke Falcon]

foamyesque, on 03 September 2023 - 01:06 PM, said:

hAgS aReN't SnIpEr WeApOnS

Nah. Those for face-punch. But brutal if use with good timing.
Binaries are seems fearsome so far. Use two on a Warhammer backed by a pair of er-meds. Pulls 500+ damage per match yet I feel clan HLLs more stable. Mostly because those smaller&lighter thus backed up with better cooling. I think binaries would become used by certain chassisses after a few patches.

Anyone has good non-FP experience with X-pulses? I tried all on different mechs but works only as back-up weapons for me... Or they are "fly-n-hit" stuffs for lights? Any advice for X-pulses apart to forfeit them?

[Curccu]

Duke Falcon, on 04 September 2023 - 11:46 AM, said:

Any advice for X-pulses apart to forfeit them?

wait for the next patch and we will see are those gonna be useless forever or not.

[martian]

Duke Falcon, on 04 September 2023 - 11:46 AM, said:

Anyone has good non-FP experience with X-pulses? I tried all on different mechs but works only as back-up weapons for me... Or they are "fly-n-hit" stuffs for lights? Any advice for X-pulses apart to forfeit them?

They do not feel especially great.

[Weeny Machine]

Curccu, on 04 September 2023 - 01:07 PM, said:

wait for the next patch and we will see are those gonna be useless forever or not.

I wouldn't hold my breath. Remember who balances the weapons...

[KursedVixen]

Duke Falcon, on 04 September 2023 - 11:46 AM, said:

Nah. Those for face-punch. But brutal if use with good timing.
Binaries are seems fearsome so far. Use two on a Warhammer backed by a pair of er-meds. Pulls 500+ damage per match yet I feel clan HLLs more stable. Mostly because those smaller&lighter thus backed up with better cooling. I think binaries would become used by certain chassisses after a few patches.

Anyone has good non-FP experience with X-pulses? I tried all on different mechs but works only as back-up weapons for me... Or they are "fly-n-hit" stuffs for lights? Any advice for X-pulses apart to forfeit them?

yes Hags are much better within about 500 meters they are not effective sniper weapons Gauss and CER Large are better sniper weapons they are equal to AC-20 though they are actually like slower firing Rac 5's but they are mostly face time weapons due to the cooldown.

but on your second point how does clan have "better" cooling.

Edited by KursedVixen, 05 September 2023 - 06:55 AM.

[martian]

KursedVixen, on 05 September 2023 - 06:53 AM, said:

but on your second point how does clan have "better" cooling.

Check your own thread that you started less than a week ago: So Why Is It Clan Stuff Is Almost Tt, But Is Stuff Is Much Colder But Higher Damage In Almost All Case

... specifically that part, where people told you how and why the Clan 'Mechs have better cooling.

Edited by martian, 05 September 2023 - 07:47 AM.