217 replies to this topic

[KursedVixen]

martian, on 05 September 2023 - 07:37 AM, said:

Check your own thread that you started less than a week ago: So Why Is It Clan Stuff Is Almost Tt, But Is Stuff Is Much Colder But Higher Damage In Almost All Case ... specifically that part, where people told you how and why the Clan 'Mechs have better cooling.

did you apply the skill tree?

[martian]

KursedVixen, on 05 September 2023 - 08:01 AM, said:

did you apply the skill tree?

Could you stay in one thread if you are discussing the same thing, instead of jumping from one thread to another? You have already started your "Poor poor Clans" thread here, so ...

Edited by martian, 05 September 2023 - 08:54 AM.

[Duke Falcon]

Curccu, on 04 September 2023 - 01:07 PM, said:

wait for the next patch and we will see are those gonna be useless forever or not.

martian, on 04 September 2023 - 08:33 PM, said:

They do not feel especially great.

So it's not me who is stupid but X-pulsorz really s***, doing da vacuum-job...

KursedVixen, on 05 September 2023 - 06:53 AM, said:

but on your second point how does clan have "better" cooling.

I swear they do! I compared an IS assault with 4 blazers with my 5xHLLs Warhammie 2c. The Hammergirl won because ran relatively safer but put out a better gentle touch upon unfortunate victims. It's not a matter of skill tree but a matter of flickerin' fingerz.

BTW I tried my 2xHAG20 Summoner and the two matches I played with it it proven lethal. HAGs are really hit like a crush so I would not wonder if soon get some nerf (hope not!!!)...

[Weeny Machine]

Duke Falcon, on 05 September 2023 - 09:40 AM, said:

So it's not me who is stupid but X-pulsorz really s***, doing da vacuum-job...

Nope, it is not you. Even boated you need a lot of facetime (even on a Hunchie 4P). If I play a DPS weapon boat, I expect to saw someone in half in a reasonable time once I get close and have facetime. After all I will lose at trading all the time.

As it stands now, a small pulse laser boat does a better job imo

Edited by Weeny Machine, 05 September 2023 - 10:04 AM.

[Kodan Black]

I like HAGs, especially the noise. A lot of people I run with have gone back to gauss though for less heat and single projectile. I’m not sure HAGs need a nerf.
Xpulse seem worthless and thus why I rarely see anyone run them.
Binary are maybe too much. 2LL for 1 energy slot AND an extra ton for a HS? I see them so much now makes me think they are in for a tweak.

[VaelophisNyx]

KursedVixen, on 05 September 2023 - 06:53 AM, said:

yes Hags are much better within about 500 meters they are not effective sniper weapons Gauss and CER Large are better sniper weapons

I regularly see HAG boats sitting 1km away getting 600-900 damage. Any that get within brawl range also regularly pull 1000-1200.

KursedVixen, on 05 September 2023 - 06:53 AM, said:

they are equal to AC-20 though they are actually like slower firing Rac 5's

They are nothing like RACs at all, and only share 4 projectile burst (HAG-20) with the Clan AC20

KursedVixen, on 05 September 2023 - 06:53 AM, said:

but they are mostly face time weapons due to the cooldown.

Huh?? That's not what facetime is my guy

facetime is "I have to sit and stare at you to do damage". (RAC, XPL, MGs, LB/U/AC 2's)
HAGs are damage vomit. they dump all their damage in under 1s, then you can immediately leave to find cover. (Missiles, Rockets, *most* Lasers, PPCs, Ballistics)

Edited by VaelophisNyx, 05 September 2023 - 07:05 PM.

[BumbleBee]

At long ranges HAGs spread damage around like an LRM salvo.

They are brutal up close and personal.

High damage numbers DO NOT mean high damage efficiency. That is the realm of the regular Guass.

HAGs are scary close to mid range weapons, definitely, but if you are running into lines of HAG snipers, they are much the same as LRMs

[Weeny Machine]

BumbleBee, on 06 September 2023 - 12:45 AM, said:

At long ranges HAGs spread damage around like an LRM salvo.

They are brutal up close and personal.

High damage numbers DO NOT mean high damage efficiency. That is the realm of the regular Guass.

HAGs are scary close to mid range weapons, definitely, but if you are running into lines of HAG snipers, they are much the same as LRMs

The problem is, though, that the spread is reasonable. If you let fly at the CT you can be sure that the CT and one or both ST are hit. The damage, though, is nasty and therefore it doesn't matter that much that there is a kind of spread. That is why you see HAGs all over the place.

The cherry on the cake is, though, that they are nasty at close range...which gives the snipers another means to get rid of brawlers. And that's why I said: why use close range weaponry anymore or dps weapons?

Edited by Weeny Machine, 06 September 2023 - 01:00 AM.

[Duke Falcon]

Weeny Machine, on 06 September 2023 - 01:00 AM, said:

why use close range weaponry anymore or dps weapons?

Because rarely Solaris city may happen (90% of the times I decide to run a lurmboat, karma is a b**ch).
Or you may have some chance of a near lifetime to surprise a sniper within point-blank range.
But yeah, 80% of times matches decided by long range it seems. Emerald is the worst map for that because the two teams line up on the highgrounds and "snipe" each others from the other side. Funny but saw that a few times...

[Weeny Machine]

Duke Falcon, on 06 September 2023 - 07:34 AM, said:

Because rarely Solaris city may happen (90% of the times I decide to run a lurmboat, karma is a b**ch).
Or you may have some chance of a near lifetime to surprise a sniper within point-blank range.
But yeah, 80% of times matches decided by long range it seems. Emerald is the worst map for that because the two teams line up on the highgrounds and "snipe" each others from the other side. Funny but saw that a few times...

Not just Emerald. Scrapyard is a snipefest nearly as bad as classic Polar. Last match was hilarious...every few hills sat a DW with ECm and sniped...

[An6ryMan69]

I think too many people are under-estimating how effective HAGS are at longer ranges. They are definitely NOT similar to LRM's or LBX, and they ARE an effective sniper weapon, despite comments to the contrary. My dual HAG30 Blood Asp is nasty effective out past 1000M, and the pellet dispersal is WAY tighter than LRM or LBX. Honestly I suspect some people just love their HAGS and are downplaying their effectiveness to try and hold back a significant nerf.

[foamyesque]

BumbleBee, on 06 September 2023 - 12:45 AM, said:

HAGs are scary close to mid range weapons, definitely, but if you are running into lines of HAG snipers, they are much the same as LRMs

LRMs? Pull the other one. HAGs have ten times the velocity, far less spread, can't be blunted by a system 1/10th their weight, and don't warn the target they're being shot at.

What they're most comparable to is a UAC/10 that runs colder, doesn't jam, shoots twice as far, and whose shots move twice as fast. If you treat incoming HAG fire from range like incoming LRM fire you're gonna get sawed in half.

[RockmachinE]

The HAG is brutal.

I'm running a HAG80 Rifleman IIC, so far I've yet to see a copy build.

Its devastating. At any range. People just kinda die, I've never seen something like this in 10 years of MWO.

I got out of 1140 damage game just now, it surprised me I thought it was a shi*ty round.

Edited by RockmachinE, 07 September 2023 - 02:20 PM.

[KursedVixen]

BumbleBee, on 06 September 2023 - 12:45 AM, said:

At long ranges HAGs spread damage around like an LRM salvo.

They are brutal up close and personal.

High damage numbers DO NOT mean high damage efficiency. That is the realm of the regular Guass.

HAGs are scary close to mid range weapons, definitely, but if you are running into lines of HAG snipers, they are much the same as LRMs

As stated here for the rest of you damage does not equal kills and actually if people all knew how the score system worked people would be killing alot less and getting just damage to get a higher score.... you actually get more for a higher damage than you do for a higher amount of kills.

I dunno how you guys are getting killed at long range by HAGS I'm sure it's just the last tap you feel and other weapons opened you up... it could also be gauss your getting killed by as they feel very similar when getting hit by them just it spreds more.

IF you really think HAGs are good sniper weapons load on up go to the acadamy and try to shoot at the turret that is furthest from you and see your damage output even with a 20 i can only get about 10 at 900 meters I'm sure if people could actually see the damage output and how it spreads you'd see the game in a diffrent way we don't even have a good way to test damage in the academy that is a problem we should get mechs to shoot at not turrets.

Edited by KursedVixen, 07 September 2023 - 02:41 PM.

[Bassault]

RockmachinE, on 07 September 2023 - 02:06 PM, said:

The HAG is brutal.

I'm running a HAG80 Rifleman IIC, so far I've yet to see a copy build.

Its devastating. At any range. People just kinda die, I've never seen something like this in 10 years of MWO.

I got out of 1140 damage game just now, it surprised me I thought it was a shi*ty round.

I'm not a fan of hags, and I don't think they're entirely balanced or unbalanced either, but you have to admit hags farm a lot of unnecessary damage, and thus your damage score may not be the best indicator on how well you actually did.

Edited by Bassault, 07 September 2023 - 02:47 PM.

[RockmachinE]

Bassault, on 07 September 2023 - 02:46 PM, said:

I'm not a fan of hags, and I don't think they're entirely balanced or unbalanced either, but you have to admit hags farm a lot of unnecessary damage, and thus your damage score may not be the best indicator on how well you actually did.

Make a HAG 80 Rifleman IIC and try it. I swear its brutal. Its not the damage score, its components that just kinda blow up and mechs that kinda die despite me putting 0 effort in or just barely howering my xhair over an enemy towards the end of a HAG salvo.

I think people underestimate just how little the projectile deviation is. I've taken advanced zoom, just so I could watch the spread. At 500m you're easily hitting a single component with your salvos. Probably more.

I'm not even saying nerf it. Leave it so I can have fun with it. I just hope most people don't catch on how deadly this weapon system....

.... yea the HAG sucks, its useless, don't bother with it, its sh*t, worst weapon ever. DO NOT EQUIP, DO NOT BOTHER PATCHING! MOVE ALONG. NOTHING TO SEE HERE.

Edited by RockmachinE, 07 September 2023 - 03:06 PM.

[Bassault]

RockmachinE, on 07 September 2023 - 02:58 PM, said:

Make a HAG 80 Rifleman IIC and try it. I swear its brutal.

I think people underestimate just how little the projectile deviation is. I've taken advanced zoom, just so I could watch the spread.

At 500m you're easily hitting a single component with your salvos. Probably more.

I'm not going to use HAG40s, way too much spread. I played the dual hag 30 night gyr H with lasers and it is quite powerful... but the damage score is not reflective of how much I'm actually doing. So much of the damage spreads due to the inherent spread and the volley fire. Still, it doesn't mean it isn't effective, it just means the damage is inflated, like LRMs or MRMs.

Edited by Bassault, 07 September 2023 - 03:04 PM.

[RockmachinE]

Bassault, on 07 September 2023 - 03:04 PM, said:

it just means the damage is inflated, like LRMs or MRMs.

Yes the damage is "inflated". But hey I get the kills AND I get a higher score because of the damage...

YEA ITS JUST EMPTY DAMAGE, YOU ARE PERFECTLY RIGHT, DONT BOTHER WITH HAG, WASTE OF SLOTS AND TIME. MOVE ALONG!!!

[SmokedJag]

RockmachinE, on 07 September 2023 - 02:06 PM, said:

The HAG is brutal.

I'm running a HAG80 Rifleman IIC, so far I've yet to see a copy build.

Its devastating. At any range. People just kinda die, I've never seen something like this in 10 years of MWO.

I got out of 1140 damage game just now, it surprised me I thought it was a shi*ty round.

I put HAG80 on a Kodiak 3 with four ERML to finish the job. 104 damage alpha strike.

Even at range it's still more or less the Quad Gauss bear, minus the engine handicap and plus the ability to walk shots slightly for at least chip damage. I've blasted some people who did shift as I released the trigger.

Fun, but they're too good.

Edited by SmokedJag, 07 September 2023 - 03:13 PM.

[Bassault]

RockmachinE, on 07 September 2023 - 03:09 PM, said:

Yes the damage is "inflated". But hey I get the kills AND I get a higher score because of the damage...

YEA ITS JUST EMPTY DAMAGE, YOU ARE PERFECTLY RIGHT, DONT BOTHER WITH HAG, WASTE OF SLOTS AND TIME. MOVE ALONG!!!

?
Most hit the CT. Many will hit the sides. This is especially true if your opponent is moving or at or past 500m. The spread on the 40s is really bad. All that damage hitting the sides could have missed and it wouldn't have mattered since you're probably killing your opponent by shooting their CT out, right?

I'm not saying that HAGs are underpowered. I'm not saying they're balanced. I'm just pointing out the truth that just because you did 1153 dmg, that doesn't mean the weapon is particularly effective over anything else. High damage =/= effectiveness. If I headshot you instantly only doing 45 dmg, that's a lot better than if I LRM'd you to death, dealing 400dmg all over your torsos and legs. Efficient damage is what matters. If you did 1153 dmg, and can prove that you did this on the components you were aiming at 80 or 90% of the time, that would be something impressive.

Getting high dmg with HAGs is easy, just like with LRMs or MRMs. Just because you did high dmg with HAGs, that doesn't mean they're OP or effective. High damage is not sufficient evidence to call a weapon or mech effective.

Edited by Bassault, 07 September 2023 - 03:21 PM.