217 replies to this topic

[Weeny Machine]

MrTBSC, on 31 August 2023 - 01:03 PM, said:

wouldn´t say "greater" spread as at mid to longrange the spread becomes significant enough ...
the problem is rather that it isn´t significant from mid to close range were i think the high end spread should stay as is up until 900m BUT it needs to start sooner ... as HAG is now the spread starts around 500 too 600 m where imho it should start at 300m

does that make sense?

HGs are a sniper's wet dream. They are really good at long ranges and wreck lights at close range. I wonder why you should use any close range weapons anymore if you can use this.
A typical Cauldron I would say.

[Vonbach]

Weeny Machine, on 01 September 2023 - 12:22 AM, said:

HGs are a sniper's wet dream. They are really good at long ranges and wreck lights at close range. I wonder why you should use any close range weapons anymore if you can use this.
A typical Cauldron I would say.

Pretty much. Its beyond stupid they put them in the game.

[pbiggz]

Weeny Machine, on 01 September 2023 - 12:22 AM, said:

HGs are a sniper's wet dream. They are really good at long ranges and wreck lights at close range. I wonder why you should use any close range weapons anymore if you can use this.
A typical Cauldron I would say.

It is very difficult to hit anything going any faster than about 70 with a HAG, especially at range. You might clip with some of the shells but you're going to whiff most of the volley.

Vonbach, on 01 September 2023 - 04:19 AM, said:

Pretty much. Its beyond stupid they put them in the game.

Cry more

[Athom83]

pbiggz, on 01 September 2023 - 04:40 AM, said:

It is very difficult to hit anything going any faster than about 70 with a HAG, especially at range. You might clip with some of the shells but you're going to whiff most of the volley.

As strong as HAGs are, this is correct. As much as they murder Heavies and Assaults with ease, they're pretty poor in outright deleting Lights and Mediums like single shot weapons can. That said, each shot in the spread are still doing 5 damage each. It's much easier to delete Lights and Mediums with them than say LBs or lower velocity stream weapons like UACs and RACs. Plus if you have experience in other games that require you to understand how to lead, hitting fast moving targets is a lot easier to do. You'll still miss shots most definitely, nobody has a 100% accuracy despite what a lot of people try to make it sound like, but even if you hit half of the spread at 600m you're still doing like 20-30 damage to the legs with a dual HAG build.

[Weeny Machine]

Athom83, on 01 September 2023 - 07:30 AM, said:

As strong as HAGs are, this is correct. As much as they murder Heavies and Assaults with ease, they're pretty poor in outright deleting Lights and Mediums like single shot weapons can. That said, each shot in the spread are still doing 5 damage each. It's much easier to delete Lights and Mediums with them than say LBs or lower velocity stream weapons like UACs and RACs. Plus if you have experience in other games that require you to understand how to lead, hitting fast moving targets is a lot easier to do. You'll still miss shots most definitely, nobody has a 100% accuracy despite what a lot of people try to make it sound like, but even if you hit half of the spread at 600m you're still doing like 20-30 damage to the legs with a dual HAG build.

Completely wrong. A light mech has to get close. The velocity is that high that most of the shots will hit home...and if the light moves laterally you either 1. do not shot 2. shoot for the legs anyway. You will saw them off in no time. At least that happens when I shoot HAGs at lights but I play mostly lights so I mostly know what they will do

Edited by Weeny Machine, 01 September 2023 - 07:44 AM.

[w0qj]

Guys, AC5 boating is still very viable!
Remember that AC5 weapons did not get nerfed, right?

Any boating of AC5, somethings with LightPPC on the IS side works!

ANH-2A (6x AC5): just did a 850 damage game with 4x kills, with one vs Dire Wolf with dual HAG! Single-handedly turned game around for a win today. Granted it's a Tier 4 QP game.
Remarks: The Dire Wolf did not want to torso twist in hopes of the next round of HAG shooting at target (me)!

ANH-2A: 5xAC5 + LightPPC (hotter, but more ammo)
ANH-2A: 4xAC5 + 2xLightPPC (even hotter, but even more ammo)

FNR-5: 4xAC5 + 2xLightPPC + ECM (also disables enemy ECM for a while!)

DWF-C: 6xAC5 + ECM
DWF-UV: 6xAC5

SR-4: 6xAC5

~~>get the idea?

Edited by w0qj, 01 September 2023 - 08:08 AM.

[pbiggz]

Weeny Machine, on 01 September 2023 - 07:43 AM, said:

Completely wrong. A light mech has to get close. The velocity is that high that most of the shots will hit home...and if the light moves laterally you either 1. do not shot 2. shoot for the legs anyway. You will saw them off in no time. At least that happens when I shoot HAGs at lights but I play mostly lights so I mostly know what they will do

So the truth comes out then. You're getting hit by HAGs and panicking, and posting about it to push a nerf.

Edited by pbiggz, 01 September 2023 - 08:25 AM.

[KursedVixen]

pbiggz, on 01 September 2023 - 04:40 AM, said:

It is very difficult to hit anything going any faster than about 70 with a HAG, especially at range. You might clip with some of the shells but you're going to whiff most of the volley.



Cry more

To add to your post



I just love it when everybody complains about the new Clan weapon but no body complains about the new IS weapons....(if I recall i think the same happend with ATMs in the civil war patch.) it's almost like the entire game base is biased against clan stuff... Yeah sure the hag 20 does 20 damage at closer range and spreads at 500 bur do you know what else does it faster??

Rac-5 for the exact same tonnage and size of a Hag 20 you can get a Rac 5 on IS mechs which can do MORE damage and doesn't explode when flicked at...

Personally i think the x-pulse should be much hotter

and i think the binary should have a GH limit of 1 considering it's actually 2 weapons in one.

Edited by KursedVixen, 01 September 2023 - 09:18 AM.

[Thiccacuga]

Be Rough With Me Plz, on 22 August 2023 - 09:07 PM, said:

Congrats. You recorded a video in Testing Grounds. Go use them in an actual match. Maybe they'll be more effective in T4 than T1 matches.

>completely disregards base numbers in a controlled environment and starts referencing tiers

Tier 1 players are the worst I swear.

[Weeny Machine]

Thiccacuga, on 01 September 2023 - 10:53 AM, said:

>completely disregards base numbers in a controlled environment and starts referencing tiers

Tier 1 players are the worst I swear.

I think his point is that math doesn't / cannot account for everything.

Take for example these factors:
1. X-pulse lasers spray because of movement and torso twisting
2. You have no alpha and lose all trades by default
3. Therefore you need a long uptime to get the dps you talk about
4. You won't have much uptime because T1 is a glorfied ranged whack-a-mole gameplay

You see, his point was from the perspective of a T1 player. The aspects mentioned above are important because in T1 it is mostly: high alpha from a med/long range, hunker into cover, rinse repeat. You won't have that uptime in that kind of environment and that's why the weapon is trash and unfortunately your maths don't reflect that.

[pbiggz]

Weeny Machine, on 01 September 2023 - 08:42 AM, said:

[redacted]

I’m not trying to troll you man. Your first response to headwinds in a match can’t be posting about it.

KursedVixen, on 01 September 2023 - 09:02 AM, said:

To add to your post



I just love it when everybody complains about the new Clan weapon but no body complains about the new IS weapons....(if I recall i think the same happend with ATMs in the civil war patch.) it's almost like the entire game base is biased against clan stuff... Yeah sure the hag 20 does 20 damage at closer range and spreads at 500 bur do you know what else does it faster??

Rac-5 for the exact same tonnage and size of a Hag 20 you can get a Rac 5 on IS mechs which can do MORE damage and doesn't explode when flicked at...

Personally i think the x-pulse should be much hotter

and i think the binary should have a GH limit of 1 considering it's actually 2 weapons in one.

You have demonstrated a remedial understanding of game balance at best. I don’t think your prescriptions can be taken with any seriousness. Adherence to tabletop stats will ruin this game.

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 10 September 2023 - 09:47 PM.
quote clean-up

[KursedVixen]

pbiggz, on 01 September 2023 - 01:19 PM, said:

I’m not trying to troll you man. Your first response to headwinds in a match can’t be posting about it. You have demonstrated a remedial understanding of game balance at best. I don’t think your prescriptions can be taken with any seriousness. Adherence to tabletop stats will ruin this game.

I Dunno what shithole you pulled TT out of that post I'm stating the in game stats the Rac 5 has 10.913 damage PER SECOND But I guess if you just want to deny the truth you can go swim in the nile and my block list.

Edited by KursedVixen, 01 September 2023 - 01:26 PM.

[Athom83]

KursedVixen, on 01 September 2023 - 01:25 PM, said:

I Dunno what shithole you pulled TT out of that post I'm stating the in game stats the Rac 5 has 10.913 damage PER SECOND But I guess if you just want to deny the truth you can go swim in the nile and my block list.

And if they had stats pulled from TT they'd have 6x the DPS of AC/5s, which would come out to 21.6 given the AC/5's current DPS of 3.6.

[foamyesque]

KursedVixen, on 01 September 2023 - 09:02 AM, said:

Rac-5 for the exact same tonnage and size of a Hag 20 you can get a Rac 5 on IS mechs which can do MORE damage and doesn't explode when flicked at...

RAC5s are a reasonably strong facetime weapon, but they're way, way worse than HAGs. They don't have the burst, they can't hold charge, the windup is longer than a HAG's, they have shorter range, they're slower shots, and they spread more.

And ofc they're mounted on Sphere mechs, so you've usually got less space and tonnage to work with, and fixed hardpoint quantities and locations atop.

[KursedVixen]

foamyesque, on 02 September 2023 - 09:56 AM, said:

RAC5s are a reasonably strong facetime weapon, but they're way, way worse than HAGs. They don't have the burst, they can't hold charge, the windup is longer than a HAG's, they have shorter range, they're slower shots, and they spread more.

And ofc they're mounted on Sphere mechs, so you've usually got less space and tonnage to work with, and fixed hardpoint quantities and locations atop.

Racs have no cooldown... just the time when you jam them and if you know how to use it you can make it so it never jams...at reduced fire rate.

[foamyesque]

KursedVixen, on 02 September 2023 - 10:29 AM, said:

Racs have no cooldown... just the time when you jam them and if you know how to use it you can make it so it never jams...at reduced fire rate.

So, they have a cooldown.

[Thiccacuga]

Weeny Machine, on 01 September 2023 - 12:12 PM, said:

I think his point is that math doesn't / cannot account for everything.

Take for example these factors:
1. X-pulse lasers spray because of movement and torso twisting
2. You have no alpha and lose all trades by default
3. Therefore you need a long uptime to get the dps you talk about
4. You won't have much uptime because T1 is a glorfied ranged whack-a-mole gameplay

You see, his point was from the perspective of a T1 player. The aspects mentioned above are important because in T1 it is mostly: high alpha from a med/long range, hunker into cover, rinse repeat. You won't have that uptime in that kind of environment and that's why the weapon is trash and unfortunately your maths don't reflect that.

Nowhere had I said anything about DPS being worse or better. I said the cooling management was better. His perspective as a T1 is to press O and hope for the best. The weapon isn't trash like you people love to say, it just has different applications that better suit it.

For example, putting Xpulse on Lights (which don't usually have the tonnage for cooling and don't have the armor for a sustained poke if they're noticed) has its own advantages. On higher tonnage it might be less of a thing to worry about but X-pulse shouldn't just be thrown out because some idiot said "It's not high alpha therefore it's bad". If you alpha and blow yourself up in the process, it don't matter how much DPS you got.

[foamyesque]

Thiccacuga, on 02 September 2023 - 01:39 PM, said:

For example, putting Xpulse on Lights (which ... don't have the armor for a sustained poke if they're noticed)

That's the primary issue. IS lights tend to have to play peek & poke gameplay and are tonnage-limited. XPulses are heavy (for laser) facetime weapons.

[Thiccacuga]

foamyesque, on 02 September 2023 - 01:53 PM, said:

That's the primary issue. IS lights tend to have to play peek & poke gameplay and are tonnage-limited. XPulses are heavy (for laser) facetime weapons.

And you don't HAVE to go peeking out like you would for normal lasers because of the extremely short duration. Xpulse aren't heavy, people are just treating them like pulse lasers and getting mad when they don't work the exact same way.

[The6thMessenger]

So I reinstalled and gave HAGs a try.

I don't know what people are belly aching about it being OP. It's a very VERY unwieldy weapon, it's long volley is hard to lead, is spread at long range, and the worst offender is the god damn charge mechanic. If a HAG40 can land all it's shot on you, you certainly deserved it.

I'd argue removing the charge mechanic, because it's just making it's use even worse, and it's not like it's Gauss that is PPFLD, it's volley-fired already.

But then I'm afraid that it'd actually be too good at that point, I'm not a comp to gauge.