217 replies to this topic

[VeeOt Dragon]

i think they mean running one or the other

well i have some matches under my belt now with the BLC and i have to say its sort of meh. it works fine but it doesn't feel overpowered. i have been running a pair on the Jester. it pretty much feels lik running 4 LLs without ghost heat (to be expected as its pretty much what i am doing.). so yeah works really wall on hard point starved mechs

Catapult Jester (2 BLCs, 2 AMS (2tammo) running an LE-300 with 6 DHS, 2 JJs, Endo and LFF)

Ai1:20;1|i^|i^|Vgpc0|i^|i^|f?|AOqc0|i^|i^|f?|AOrX0|`@sX0|`@te0|NGue0|NGvA0w909090

struggle to get a few good matches though as it has been one of those days where i am on the stomped team over and over.

[Elizander]

HAG strong, but the long CD is very noticeable in a brawl. I put 2 HAG30s on my Scorch and they can only fire with the SRMs every other volley. Despite that, having a long range option compared to LB20s makes it worth the switch.

The new lasers are lasers so if you know how to pewpew, you can pewpew.

Edited by Elizander, 26 August 2023 - 07:22 AM.

[VeeOt Dragon]

with the damage that HAGs can put out they should have a relatively long cooldown. i don't play clan mechs so i have only used them in the testing grounds and the cooldown feels about right.

on the BLC front i have another build that i am having fun with. its an alteration of my Annoyance Urbie (the original build was pretty close to identical just with 3 LPPCs and armor on the left arm)

Urbianmech-R63 (1 BLC, 3 MGs (2t ammo), 1 AMS (1/2t ammo) running an LE-170 with 4 DHS, Endo and LFF)

AC4:20P0|<gpE0|i^|i^|f?qE0|i^|`@|i^r10sD0|0@|0@|0@tJ0uJ0|KO|KOvA0|aOw807070

Edited by VeeOt Dragon, 26 August 2023 - 07:43 AM.

[CFC Conky]

So far I'm not a big fan of the HAG-40, it dishes out huge damage but the cd is too long for me when the fighting gets close. The -30 seems just right since with skills/quirks it's pretty easy to get the cd down to AC20 levels. I haven't used the -20 much yet.

The BLC is fun and I've been limiting myself to firing only two at a time in anticipation of the hsl adjustment. Don't know what to say about the x-pulses, they are good for annoying light mechs but they seem to need a lot of face time to damage larger mechs.

Overall, the new toys are nice.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[Athom83]

CFC Conky, on 26 August 2023 - 10:00 AM, said:

So far I'm not a big fan of the HAG-40, it dishes out huge damage but the cd is too long for me when the fighting gets close. The -30 seems just right since with skills/quirks it's pretty easy to get the cd down to AC20 levels. I haven't used the -20 much yet.

The HAGs go from 4.6, 5.4, and 5.9 DPS for the 20, 30, and 40 respectively. The bump from the 20 to 30 is noticeable, but the bump from the 30 to 40 is much smaller. You are just paying 3 tons and a couple slots for a slightly better upfront damage but the DPS is effectively similar between them. For reference, the LB and AC 20 both have a DPS of 5 while the Ultra 20 has a DPS of 6.8. Hell the Ultra 10 has a DPS of 4.5, which is basically the same as the HAG 20 with both of them being the same tonnage... but the HAG has 50% more range and velocity.

[pbiggz]

Athom83, on 28 August 2023 - 03:44 AM, said:

The HAGs go from 4.6, 5.4, and 5.9 DPS for the 20, 30, and 40 respectively. The bump from the 20 to 30 is noticeable, but the bump from the 30 to 40 is much smaller. You are just paying 3 tons and a couple slots for a slightly better upfront damage but the DPS is effectively similar between them. For reference, the LB and AC 20 both have a DPS of 5 while the Ultra 20 has a DPS of 6.8. Hell the Ultra 10 has a DPS of 4.5, which is basically the same as the HAG 20 with both of them being the same tonnage... but the HAG has 50% more range and velocity.

HAGs have a charge and the gun can explode. There are tradeoffs here beyond raw stats.

[KursedVixen]

CFC Conky, on 26 August 2023 - 10:00 AM, said:

So far I'm not a big fan of the HAG-40, it dishes out huge damage but the cd is too long for me when the fighting gets close. The -30 seems just right since with skills/quirks it's pretty easy to get the cd down to AC20 levels. I haven't used the -20 much yet.

The BLC is fun and I've been limiting myself to firing only two at a time in anticipation of the hsl adjustment. Don't know what to say about the x-pulses, they are good for annoying light mechs but they seem to need a lot of face time to damage larger mechs.

Overall, the new toys are nice.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

backup weapons this is why it's better on something like the kodiak so you can have at least some lasers i put one on my orion IIC.

pbiggz, on 28 August 2023 - 04:49 AM, said:

HAGs have a charge and the gun can explode. There are tradeoffs here beyond raw stats.

yep for the same exact slots and tonnage on the IS side you can get a Rac5 which has the potential to do quad the damage of a single hag 20. Within 2 seconds of constant fire from teh RAC5 you can do equal to a HAg 20 and on from there... and people are saying the HAg is Op, of course this requires face time or your target to stand there but still. on that same note Hag has cooldown while the RAC does not list one.. you cna stop firing the Rac 5 mid burst but you have to fire all 4 slugs from the Hag 20 or other hags. The only saving grace of the Hag over the RAC is that it fires in a faster burst and has about 200 more velocity otherwise the HAG is probably inferior for a newer player.

Edited by KursedVixen, 28 August 2023 - 05:03 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

CFC Conky, on 26 August 2023 - 10:00 AM, said:

Don't know what to say about the x-pulses, they are good for annoying light mechs but they seem to need a lot of face time to damage larger mechs.

When I play my lights and I see someone with x-pulse laser I giggle and rub my hands. Why? Because these lasers spray everywhere and some pulses will even miss and I feel armoured like a 100t Atlas.

As I said before, you need to up the damage by 20-30% to make them worth taking.

You cannot even use them as backup weapons because they weight a lot and they have the same issues. The best bet would be to put them on lights but because of the weight (and hardpoints) they cannot run many - which will require even longer uptime and since lights move they also will spray

So, crap weapons stay crap weapons

[KursedVixen]

Weeny Machine, on 28 August 2023 - 09:39 AM, said:

When I play my lights and I see someone with x-pulse laser I giggle and rub my hands. Why? Because these lasers spray everywhere and some pulses will even miss and I feel armoured like a 100t Atlas.

As I said before, you need to up the damage by 20-30% to make them worth taking.

You cannot even use them as backup weapons because they weight a lot and they have the same issues. The best bet would be to put them on lights but because of the weight (and hardpoints) they cannot run many - which will require even longer uptime and since lights move they also will spray

So, crap weapons stay crap weapons

cook em with flamers... they typically blow themselves up or shut down... x pulse and binaries will bring back flamers as a valid weapon. I've already cooked over 3 people just with flamers alone only to have them blow up in my face as they overload thier heat.

Edited by KursedVixen, 28 August 2023 - 10:16 AM.

[chaosshade2638]

my opinion on the whole thing:
X-Pulse are looking for a niche to fill, they're powerful DOT weapons but also very hot. If they get a heat buff (reduction) they'll be one of the most powerful weapons in the game.

Binary Lasers are stupidly powerful, they're making IS Assaults incredibly dangerous again. in tabletop they're 15 damage for 18 heat, in MWO they're 18 damage for 13 heat, tbh, I think they could use a nerf.

Hyper Assault Guass are... there's no way to sugarcoat this, they're BROKEN. They desperately need a nerf. HAG20's are fine imo, they're basically just a CGauss with a little more face time, but HAG30 and HAG40 are beastly weapons. Twin HAG30 will delete most mechs in a couple of well-placed shots and twin HAG40, assuming you can fit a pair and eat the heat penalty, will ruin even an assault's day. tbh, I think HAG30 and HAG40 should be limited to HSL 1 with a really steep penalty like CERPPCs have.

I realize my opinion on HAG is unpopular, but playing a Hellfire, stepping around a corner into a Kodiak with twin HAG40 and getting deleted on the spot is really irritating.

Edited by chaosshade2638, 28 August 2023 - 10:32 AM.

[CFC Conky]

Weeny Machine, on 28 August 2023 - 09:39 AM, said:

When I play my lights and I see someone with x-pulse laser I giggle and rub my hands. Why? Because these lasers spray everywhere and some pulses will even miss and I feel armoured like a 100t Atlas.

As I said before, you need to up the damage by 20-30% to make them worth taking.

You cannot even use them as backup weapons because they weight a lot and they have the same issues. The best bet would be to put them on lights but because of the weight (and hardpoints) they cannot run many - which will require even longer uptime and since lights move they also will spray

So, crap weapons stay crap weapons

I’ve had some success against light mechs with the med-X (as long as I can carry enough of them), the small-X just chips paint, and the large-X doesn’t do a whole lot unless you boat them, not always an option.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[pbiggz]

chaosshade2638, on 28 August 2023 - 10:31 AM, said:

my opinion on the whole thing:
X-Pulse are looking for a niche to fill, they're powerful DOT weapons but also very hot. If they get a heat buff (reduction) they'll be one of the most powerful weapons in the game.

The medium x pulse is usable, and not much more. The small and larges are trash.

chaosshade2638, on 28 August 2023 - 10:31 AM, said:

Binary Lasers are stupidly powerful, they're making IS Assaults incredibly dangerous again. in tabletop they're 15 damage for 18 heat, in MWO they're 18 damage for 13 heat, tbh, I think they could use a nerf.

You cant reliably fire more than 2 at a time, even with the HSL error. A marginal group of large IS assault mechs are boating them slightly more than they should be able to, and once the september patch corrects the HSL back down to 2, those mechs will disappear, while all other builds that use 2, or fire 2 and 1, wont be effected. They're basically already where they should be, and give the IS a good answer to clan laservom.

chaosshade2638, on 28 August 2023 - 10:31 AM, said:

Hyper Assault Guass are... there's no way to sugarcoat this, they're BROKEN. They desperately need a nerf. HAG20's are fine imo, they're basically just a CGauss with a little more face time, but HAG30 and HAG40 are beastly weapons. Twin HAG30 will delete most mechs in a couple of well-placed shots and twin HAG40, assuming you can fit a pair and eat the heat penalty, will ruin even an assault's day. tbh, I think HAG30 and HAG40 should be limited to HSL 1 with a really steep penalty like CERPPCs have.

This is fiction. If anything HAG40s are underperformers for the amount of weight you need to use. They are big and scary and anything moving faster than 75kph is next to impossible to land every round on, and that becomes MORE, not less true on the larger HAGs. It doesn't matter if your 1 weapon does 40 damage if half or more of the rounds whiff with every volley. Clan laservomit easily attained similar damage numbers, with less tonnage and far better precision.

That being said I don't think they should be buffed. They're like clan ballistic MRMs. Big, splashy and imprecise.

chaosshade2638, on 28 August 2023 - 10:31 AM, said:

I realize my opinion on HAG is unpopular, but playing a Hellfire, stepping around a corner into a Kodiak with twin HAG40 and getting deleted on the spot is really irritating.

If you stepped around a corner into a kodiak that was anything like correctly built while in a hellfire you were toast. That was true before HAGs, and HAGs didnt change that. I don't think its fair for you to ascribe that to HAGs simply because you think they need a nerf. You've created a scenario you think is a silver bullet when its just a description of a thing that pretty ******* routinely happens. If you introduce yourself to a 100 ton mech in point blank range you are going to have a bad time.


I really feel the need to push back on this weird nerf demand panic reaction. We have new weapons. Its the first time we've got them in years. The meta is going to change. People are going to be trying out the new weapons. Of course they are. Why does anyone think its remotely acceptable to demand all these weapons be nerfed to the point of being completely ineffective just for the sake of making sure nothing ever changes in this game?

Edited by pbiggz, 28 August 2023 - 10:55 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

chaosshade2638, on 28 August 2023 - 10:31 AM, said:

my opinion on the whole thing:
X-Pulse are looking for a niche to fill, they're powerful DOT weapons but also very hot. If they get a heat buff (reduction) they'll be one of the most powerful weapons in the game.

I doubt that. Their main issues is actually not heat but...

1. needed uptime on a target - you are exposed all the time and that in an environment where your target can get support from nearly 1 km away with HGs, lasers or PPCs. This also means: no trading possible

2. weight (for lights) and they are too heavy for an afterthought backup weapon for what they do

3. need a lot of hardpoints (and tonnage for that matter) or it is like throwing cotton balls at the enemy

4. Spraying - if your enemy is worth its salt he will twist till his weapons come back online while your shots spray over all his mech


So, nope...a heat reduction won't save them

[MrTBSC]

KursedVixen, on 23 August 2023 - 01:54 AM, said:

Also tell me how they compare to the heavy guass?

... i don´t see where in that post or quote i mentioned Heavy Gauss Rifles at all


though even then pin point or not i find the HAG 40 way superior than the Heavy Gauss
heck HAG 30 is superior than heavy gauss because even with splash they keep their damage at range where HGR after optimal drop down to standart gauss damage


as for LBX vs HAG for one LBX splash already at early ranges were the HAG burst stays rather consistent at about 550m, it´s after 600m/650m the splash becomes noticeable with the burts spraying across a chassis ...

so not only do you have to fire many more times with LBX to get even damagewise with the HAG but you have to fire additional times because of the LBX´s greater splash over the HAG´s

Edited by MrTBSC, 28 August 2023 - 02:02 PM.

[foamyesque]

KursedVixen, on 28 August 2023 - 10:15 AM, said:

cook em with flamers... they typically blow themselves up or shut down... x pulse and binaries will bring back flamers as a valid weapon. I've already cooked over 3 people just with flamers alone only to have them blow up in my face as they overload thier heat.

If you're using flamers against an XPulse pilot who knows what they're doing they're going to eat you alive with the 10% of the heatbar they can still freely use. It just takes remembering to do more than hold down LMB

[Vonbach]

Hags should be removed from the game. Just what we need a clan gauss weapon that does 40 damage with a 600m effective range. There's no way to balance this crap.

[pbiggz]

Vonbach, on 28 August 2023 - 05:00 PM, said:

Hags should be removed from the game. Just what we need a clan gauss weapon that does 40 damage with a 600m effective range. There's no way to balance this crap.

Stop with this clownshow. We get new toys for the first time in the better part of a decade and you come out of the woodwork to demand its removal? This is a joke.

[VaelophisNyx]

pbiggz, on 28 August 2023 - 06:26 PM, said:

Stop with this clownshow. We get new toys for the first time in the better part of a decade and you come out of the woodwork to demand its removal? This is a joke.

All I see is you and KV demanding they remain untouched honestly. The majority seem to agree they need something, either tiny or large, changed. Vonbach is right, but since PGI added them they're going to need to rebalance them or they will just become the only valid clan ballistic weapon (as they currently kinda are)

[pbiggz]

VaelophisNyx, on 28 August 2023 - 07:20 PM, said:

All I see is you and KV demanding they remain untouched honestly. The majority seem to agree they need something, either tiny or large, changed. Vonbach is right, but since PGI added them they're going to need to rebalance them or they will just become the only valid clan ballistic weapon (as they currently kinda are)

KV has a clan victim complex. He made a whole thread about how X pulses were somehow too good.

I have seen this community scream until the fun gets nerfed out of everything and then scream some more after and im not really interested in watching that play out again. Vonbach has decided to be the reactionary voice in this thread. Demanding **** gets removed because you dont like change is not a way forward, its a commitment to stagnation and irrelevance.

Edited by pbiggz, 29 August 2023 - 05:08 AM.

[martian]

Weeny Machine, on 28 August 2023 - 09:39 AM, said:

When I play my lights and I see someone with x-pulse laser I giggle and rub my hands. Why? Because these lasers spray everywhere and some pulses will even miss and I feel armoured like a 100t Atlas.

As I said before, you need to up the damage by 20-30% to make them worth taking.

You cannot even use them as backup weapons because they weight a lot and they have the same issues. The best bet would be to put them on lights but because of the weight (and hardpoints) they cannot run many - which will require even longer uptime and since lights move they also will spray

So, crap weapons stay crap weapons

I wonder what changes the September game patch will bring in three weeks:

• they hinted that they will probably boost X-Pulse lasers
  
• they will probably fix that HSL Blazer error