217 replies to this topic

[Weeny Machine]

martian, on 29 August 2023 - 05:34 AM, said:

I wonder what changes the September game patch will bring in three weeks:

• they hinted that they will probably boost X-Pulse lasers
  
• they will probably fix that HSL Blazer error

Hopefully. HAG also needs some toning down...maybe an increas in charge up time or reduction in velocity

[feeWAIVER]

Mace Windu definitely needs a buff.
A big damage buff.. like double maybe triple.
For the tonnage you're spending, it's just sad.

Edited by feeWAIVER, 29 August 2023 - 08:04 AM.

[Tarteso]

HAGs: op over cac/cuac 10/20; need a longer charge time like std gauss, and be heavier
BLC: HSL issue
X-pulse family: op over pulse lasers at medium-short range, need a bit more heat

Also, if anyone cares, TTK has been reduced again after this patch, IMO, mostly because HAGs: HAGeddons

[martian]

Weeny Machine, on 29 August 2023 - 07:52 AM, said:

Hopefully. HAG also needs some toning down...maybe an increas in charge up time or reduction in velocity

Perhaps. Or maybe slightly greater spread?

[pbiggz]

Tarteso, on 29 August 2023 - 10:32 AM, said:

HAGs: op over cac/cuac 10/20; need a longer charge time like std gauss, and be heavier
BLC: HSL issue
X-pulse family: op over pulse lasers at medium-short range, need a bit more heat

Also, if anyone cares, TTK has been reduced again after this patch, IMO, mostly because HAGs: HAGeddons

If you think x pulses are OP why should anyone listen to any of your opinions?

[foamyesque]

pbiggz, on 29 August 2023 - 11:24 AM, said:

If you think x pulses are OP why should anyone listen to any of your opinions?

MXPLs are stronger than MPLs in certain particular circumstances -- i.e. an upclose brawl where nobody's taking cover and you can just fry a pair of legs -- but I don't think it's worth the loss of the alpha. And they're the best of the XPLs compared to standard pulses.

They maybe work as an energy fit on facetime machines that were never going to be twisting anyway, but at higher tonnages I'd still rather slot something with some spike damage like LPLs, an ML battery, snubs, etc. And at the lighter end of things, facetime is a good way to die and tonnage is tight. So I'm not really sure where the niche is for 'em.

[Tarteso]

pbiggz, on 29 August 2023 - 11:24 AM, said:

If you think x pulses are OP why should anyone listen to any of your opinions?

I don't give a damn about being listened in the forums anymore.

On the other hand, if you are a retired player, why should anyone care about yours?

[KursedVixen]

chaosshade2638, on 28 August 2023 - 10:31 AM, said:

my opinion on the whole thing:
X-Pulse are looking for a niche to fill, they're powerful DOT weapons but also very hot. If they get a heat buff (reduction) they'll be one of the most powerful weapons in the game.

Binary Lasers are stupidly powerful, they're making IS Assaults incredibly dangerous again. in tabletop they're 15 damage for 18 heat, in MWO they're 18 damage for 13 heat, tbh, I think they could use a nerf.

Hyper Assault Guass are... there's no way to sugarcoat this, they're BROKEN. They desperately need a nerf. HAG20's are fine imo, they're basically just a CGauss with a little more face time, but HAG30 and HAG40 are beastly weapons. Twin HAG30 will delete most mechs in a couple of well-placed shots and twin HAG40, assuming you can fit a pair and eat the heat penalty, will ruin even an assault's day. tbh, I think HAG30 and HAG40 should be limited to HSL 1 with a really steep penalty like CERPPCs have.

I realize my opinion on HAG is unpopular, but playing a Hellfire, stepping around a corner into a Kodiak with twin HAG40 and getting deleted on the spot is really irritating.

last i looked they were 12 damage for 14.5 heat.... the only change I can see for the HAg is making the ghost heat for the 40 higher...

VaelophisNyx, on 28 August 2023 - 07:20 PM, said:

All I see is you and KV demanding they remain untouched honestly. The majority seem to agree they need something, either tiny or large, changed. Vonbach is right, but since PGI added them they're going to need to rebalance them or they will just become the only valid clan ballistic weapon (as they currently kinda are)

Really because i still see 8 ac2 dires and kodiaks with ultras....

I think your just mad clan finnally has a viable ballstic that can compare to Inner sphere, like the binary cannon the HAG opens up new opportunities for mech builds that weren't originally viable..

Edited by KursedVixen, 30 August 2023 - 07:32 AM.

[foamyesque]

KursedVixen, on 30 August 2023 - 07:31 AM, said:

Really because i still see 8 ac2 dires and kodiaks with ultras....

I think HAGs are gonna hurt the AC2 Dire. Firstly because you can put HAG80+ on a Dire without needing the UV pods, but secondly because the AC2 Dire is a long range mech that requires exposure, and anybody on the field with HAGs has the range to answer them and no need to stay out while they do it, which means the HAG boat can win trades fairly easily.

[Tarteso]

foamyesque, on 29 August 2023 - 12:00 PM, said:

MXPLs are stronger than MPLs in certain particular circumstances -- i.e. an upclose brawl where nobody's taking cover and you can just fry a pair of legs -- but I don't think it's worth the loss of the alpha. And they're the best of the XPLs compared to standard pulses.

They maybe work as an energy fit on facetime machines that were never going to be twisting anyway, but at higher tonnages I'd still rather slot something with some spike damage like LPLs, an ML battery, snubs, etc. And at the lighter end of things, facetime is a good way to die and tonnage is tight. So I'm not really sure where the niche is for 'em.

You are mostly right, except for MXPL:

Cooldown Dmg Heat DPS HPS D/H Eff eff per shot dmg rel to PL (same timelapse)
SPL 2.10 4.00 1.55 1.90 0.74 2.58 2.58 4.00
MPL 2.80 6.00 2.80 2.14 1.00 2.14 2.14 6.00
LPL 3.00 11.00 7.00 3.67 2.33 1.57 1.57 11.00

SXPL 0.25 0.85 0.35 3.40 1.40 2.43 2.43 7.14
MXPL 0.25 1.20 0.75 4.80 3.00 1.60 1.60 13.44
LXPL 0.25 1.85 1.15 7.40 4.60 1.61 1.61 22.2


MXPL are noticeably less efficient than MPL, while SXPL and LXPL are mostly the same than their PLs counterparts. Still, XPLs double the dmg of PLs in the same time (per second, or the same cooldown than PLs) and heat may be an issue, or not. For example,I have tested a Firestarter (skilled) boating 8 SXPL and when the heat go too high, just keep firing 4 of them makes heat to remain more or less steady, so I can keep firing continously for the same dmg than 8 SPLs.

If they go niche or replace PLs, who knows, we'll see. But more damage for a longer exposure isn't a bad trade IMO. See the vid posted in page 1. For larger ranges, I still prefer the LPL over LXPL. But for medium and short ranges, XPLs are beast.

Edited by Tarteso, 30 August 2023 - 10:31 AM.

[Alex Morgaine]

Vanguard319, on 22 August 2023 - 10:07 PM, said:

X-pulse lasers are a bad joke. I'd rather have the longer range they're supposed to have over rapid pew pew and inferior dot.

Blasers apparently have screwed up ghost heat, which is pretty outrageous considering you gave them the same damage profile as a heavy large laser. Canonically, they're supposed to be extremely heat inefficient for the damage they put out, so I find it insulting that you can fire five of them without shutting down.

PGI didn't give us blazer cannons, they gave us a RISC Hyperlaser that lacks the range, and doesn't explode.

ok really fast fix, change the name, weight and slots. put HSL to 1 or 2 and keep the rest of the stats.
then make a new Blazer XD

[KursedVixen]

Weeny Machine, on 29 August 2023 - 07:52 AM, said:

Hopefully. HAG also needs some toning down...maybe an increas in charge up time or reduction in velocity

what needs toning down is the hating on the HAG for the exact same space and tonnage as a Hag20 you can get a Rac 5 that can do the same damage in 2 seconds... by 3 seconds 30 damage by 4 40 and so on. The only thing needed to be changed for HAGs is the 40 Ghost heat, and your piloting skill.

Edited by KursedVixen, 30 August 2023 - 11:18 AM.

[martian]

KursedVixen, on 30 August 2023 - 11:14 AM, said:

what needs toning down is the hating on the HAG for the exact same space and tonnage as a Hag20 you can get a Rac 5 that can do the same damage in 2 seconds... by 3 seconds 30 damage by 4 40 and so on. The only thing needed to be changed for HAGs is the 40 Ghost heat, and your piloting skill.

HAG-20 - effective range 810 m
RAC-5 - effective range 450 m.

Spot the difference ...

And by the way, how often does your HAG-20 jam?

[Curccu]

Tarteso, on 30 August 2023 - 10:18 AM, said:

You are mostly right, except for MXPL:

Cooldown Dmg Heat DPS HPS D/H Eff eff per shot dmg rel to PL (same timelapse)
SPL 2.10 4.00 1.55 1.90 0.74 2.58 2.58 4.00
MPL 2.80 6.00 2.80 2.14 1.00 2.14 2.14 6.00
LPL 3.00 11.00 7.00 3.67 2.33 1.57 1.57 11.00

SXPL 0.25 0.85 0.35 3.40 1.40 2.43 2.43 7.14
MXPL 0.25 1.20 0.75 4.80 3.00 1.60 1.60 13.44
LXPL 0.25 1.85 1.15 7.40 4.60 1.61 1.61 22.2


MXPL are noticeably less efficient than MPL, while SXPL and LXPL are mostly the same than their PLs counterparts. Still, XPLs double the dmg of PLs in the same time (per second, or the same cooldown than PLs) and heat may be an issue, or not. For example,I have tested a Firestarter (skilled) boating 8 SXPL and when the heat go too high, just keep firing 4 of them makes heat to remain more or less steady, so I can keep firing continously for the same dmg than 8 SPLs.

If they go niche or replace PLs, who knows, we'll see. But more damage for a longer exposure isn't a bad trade IMO. See the vid posted in page 1. For larger ranges, I still prefer the LPL over LXPL. But for medium and short ranges, XPLs are beast.

You are mostly right, except your numbers are very much off.
How did you come up with those numbers? DPS/HPS are super off, did you count burn duration to your dps at all? LXPL has 200% the DPS it should have and so on.
MXPL has the most increase in DPS of all PL vs XPL sizes

https://mwo.nav-alph...uipment/weapons

[SafeScanner]

question these hags explode right? and if so how much ill be back soon and i wanna xpulse/mg things

[Weeny Machine]

Curccu, on 30 August 2023 - 01:05 PM, said:

You are mostly right, except your numbers are very much off.
How did you come up with those numbers? DPS/HPS are super off, did you count burn duration to your dps at all? LXPL has 200% the DPS it should have and so on.
MXPL has the most increase in DPS of all PL vs XPL sizes

https://mwo.nav-alph...uipment/weapons

Number crunching doesn't tell the whole story anyway.

Mech A with HGs: Pumps out alpha and twists while moving back and hunkers into cover with his mates nearby (doesn't matter that much if they are close because as long as they have los, he can get cover fire from half across the map anyway due to laser and HG spam)

Mech B: Fires back with his x-pulse array doing some measly damage spraying shots all over the twisting mech....Mech A is back in cover.

Point is: Uptime is something precious which you simply often don't have in long range dominated peek-a-boo warrior. Theoretical dps doesn't cover that. You want preferably focused damage anway.
Peek-a-booing and silly ranges are the reasons why DPS weapons suck in this game (I cannot remember when I have seen a regular AC5). You also hardly see rotaries anymore - especially since HGs came out everybody plays that. And the king of suckage dps weapons are x-pulse dps with their high king of suckage x-pulse large lasers for 7t, not even 500ish range and I think it were 1.6 dmg / 0.25 sec

[Tarteso]

Curccu, on 30 August 2023 - 01:05 PM, said:

You are mostly right, except your numbers are very much off.
How did you come up with those numbers? DPS/HPS are super off, did you count burn duration to your dps at all? LXPL has 200% the DPS it should have and so on.
MXPL has the most increase in DPS of all PL vs XPL sizes

https://mwo.nav-alph...uipment/weapons

Oooops! you are right, I didn't count burn duration. New table:

Cooldown+dur Dmg Heat DPS HPS D/H eff Eff per shot Dmg rel to PL
SPL 2.60 4.00 1.55 1.54 0.60 2.58 2.58 4.00
MPL 3.40 6.00 2.80 1.76 0.82 2.14 2.14 6.00
LPL 3.75 11.00 7.00 2.93 1.87 1.57 1.57 11.00
SXPL 0.50 0.85 0.35 1.70 0.70 2.43 2.43 3.57
MXPL 0.50 1.20 0.75 2.40 1.50 1.60 1.60 6.72
LXPL 0.50 1.85 1.15 3.70 2.30 1.61 1.61 11.10


Not so big differences between PL and XPL families now, specially in the last column. So I was wrong.
MXPL still has the bigger increase in DPS, but also in HPS, which drops efficiency to the LPL/LXPL level.

Correction:

Tarteso, on 30 August 2023 - 10:18 AM, said:

You are mostly right, except for MXPL:

Cooldown Dmg Heat DPS HPS D/H Eff eff per shot dmg rel to PL (same timelapse)
SPL 2.10 4.00 1.55 1.90 0.74 2.58 2.58 4.00
MPL 2.80 6.00 2.80 2.14 1.00 2.14 2.14 6.00
LPL 3.00 11.00 7.00 3.67 2.33 1.57 1.57 11.00

SXPL 0.25 0.85 0.35 3.40 1.40 2.43 2.43 7.14
MXPL 0.25 1.20 0.75 4.80 3.00 1.60 1.60 13.44
LXPL 0.25 1.85 1.15 7.40 4.60 1.61 1.61 22.2


MXPL are noticeably less efficient than MPL, while SXPL and LXPL are mostly the same than their PLs counterparts. Still, XPLs double the dmg of PLs in the same time (per second, or the same cooldown than PLs) and heat may be an issue, or not. For example,I have tested a Firestarter (skilled) boating 8 SXPL and when the heat go too high, just keep firing 4 of them makes heat to remain more or less steady, so I can keep firing continously for the same dmg than 8 SPLs.

If they go niche or replace PLs, who knows, we'll see. But more damage for a longer exposure isn't a bad trade IMO. See the vid posted in page 1. For larger ranges, I still prefer the LPL over LXPL. But for medium and short ranges, XPLs are beast.

[VaelophisNyx]

KursedVixen, on 30 August 2023 - 11:14 AM, said:

what needs toning down is the hating on the HAG

There wouldn't be any hate if they had been balanced pre-patch but well, they clearly weren't

[MrTBSC]

martian, on 29 August 2023 - 10:58 AM, said:

Perhaps. Or maybe slightly greater spread?

wouldn´t say "greater" spread as at mid to longrange the spread becomes significant enough ...
the problem is rather that it isn´t significant from mid to close range were i think the high end spread should stay as is up until 900m BUT it needs to start sooner ... as HAG is now the spread starts around 500 too 600 m where imho it should start at 300m

does that make sense?

[martian]

MrTBSC, on 31 August 2023 - 01:03 PM, said:

wouldn´t say "greater" spread as at mid to longrange the spread becomes significant enough ...
the problem is rather that it isn´t significant from mid to close range were i think the high end spread should stay as is up until 900m BUT it needs to start sooner ... as HAG is now the spread starts around 500 too 600 m where imho it should start at 300m

does that make sense?

It does, I am just not sure if it technically possible in MWO.