235 replies to this topic

[Voice of Kerensky]

KursedVixen, on 22 October 2023 - 07:34 PM, said:

are you kidding me about the Binary laser? it's better than the clan heavy laser it fires faster weighs exactly 2 times a IS large laser and is cold clan heavy large may be 4 tons but it's as hot as a clan ERPPC.

I do wish they'd fix things like hit reg and stuff this game needs optimization very badly.

I'm not kidding you. In no case.
I didn’t just write that BLC is 125% heavier (i.e. to one HLL, you need to add another 1.25 HLL to get 1 BLC). You see, even if we collect the difference in the characteristics for which HLL is worse than BLC, we get in total: heat 10.34% + cooldown 36.36% + duration 13.79% + health 50% = 110.49%. Even in total it is not 125%.
At the same time, do not forget that HLL in the mech takes up 25% less space. You can argue me that 1 BLC is a double LL (2+2 slots), which is already one ton lighter (and that’s good). But then let's think about why 1 BLC can take up less space than 2 LLs and at the same time weigh less? The answer is simple - the barrel. The engineers combined two LLs to double the power of the salvo, but since the second barrel was unnecessary, the BLC began to weigh a ton less (it already does) and take up less space by one slot.

P.S. I would like to clarify specifically for PGI. I'm not advocating for making HLL worse. I propose to make BLC better.

[KursedVixen]

martian, on 22 October 2023 - 08:26 PM, said:

You wrote about everything, but you "forgot" to clearly state one simple fact: The effective range of Clan HAGs is 810 metres, which is 360 metres farther than the 450 metres of effective range of IS RAC-5. Thus, HAGs have a massive advantage in this respect.

You also wrote about everything, but you "forgot" to clearly state that in the end IS RAC-5 autojams, while Clan HAGs never jam and you can fire them as fast as they recharge.

I didn't forget because Hags do not auto fire if you hold the button down

And you forgot about the charge up that needs to happen with racs you can just hold the button down not so with Hags...

You can let go of the trigger on a rac any time then press the button again to resume firing because RAc has 0 cooldown

martian, on 22 October 2023 - 08:50 PM, said:

You "forgot" to state one simple fact: Clan Heavy Large laser is so light (4 tons, 14,5 heat) that you can equip it AND add 5 Clan Double Heat Sinks (1 ton per 1 Clan DHS) to boost your 'Mech's cooling.

Inner Sphere 'Mech spends 9 tons just to equip Blazer (9 tons, 13 heat).

And you forgot that unlike ALL Is mechs most clan mechs are omnimechs and have fixed components that limit space so even though we have small 2 slot double heat sinks which are equal in every other way to IS double heat sinks despite clan haveing much hotter guns, is limted by fixed equipment like jump jets ferro fibeorous, endo steel XL engines and any other fixed components... so we can't change from standard armor or structure to get more wight.

Very rarely can you fit stuff in the legs of an omnimech because the legs are usually full of fixed equipment heat sinks if not armor from ferro or endo.

Edited by KursedVixen, 22 October 2023 - 10:44 PM.

[KursedVixen]

Voice of Kerensky, on 22 October 2023 - 10:23 PM, said:

I'm not kidding you. In no case.
I didn’t just write that BLC is 125% heavier (i.e. to one HLL, you need to add another 1.25 HLL to get 1 BLC). You see, even if we collect the difference in the characteristics for which HLL is worse than BLC, we get in total: heat 10.34% + cooldown 36.36% + duration 13.79% + health 50% = 110.49%. Even in total it is not 125%.
At the same time, do not forget that HLL in the mech takes up 25% less space. You can argue me that 1 BLC is a double LL (2+2 slots), which is already one ton lighter (and that’s good). But then let's think about why 1 BLC can take up less space than 2 LLs and at the same time weigh less? The answer is simple - the barrel. The engineers combined two LLs to double the power of the salvo, but since the second barrel was unnecessary, the BLC began to weigh a ton less (it already does) and take up less space by one slot.

P.S. I would like to clarify specifically for PGI. I'm not advocating for making HLL worse. I propose to make BLC better.

I would propose making the C HLL have a closer duration to the BLC not the same but closer.

[The6thMessenger]

Voice of Kerensky, on 22 October 2023 - 10:23 PM, said:

P.S. I would like to clarify specifically for PGI. I'm not advocating for making HLL worse. I propose to make BLC better.

Fair, I guess.

But the problem with BLC use is less about it's Clan "equivalent", but it's IS competitors. How good do you have to make BLC, without making other LLs obsolete, and hell don't even trample on the HPPC?

This is why I don't really look a comparison with HLL to BLC, because it's not like as an IS mech you can switch to HLL when you don't want BLC. It's a battle of Clan Vomit vs IS Vomit, and so far the cauldron did made significant considerations for the IS techbase as a whole to make IS Vomit viable -- if not competitive, and BLC is just one aspect of that. BLC iirc is also technically Large Laser linked, so it pretty much works with +HSL quirks that certain mechs already have.

To buff BLC, it has to be within the context of IS Techbase output, not just because "clam got better lazors".

My money? Better (less) heat, more sustain. Less DHS needed.

As it stands, it basically has 1:1 damage/heat efficiency with Large Lazors. Maybe:

> Heat to 12, that would make it somewhat halfway Pulse-Laser heat-efficiency but not-quite for a conservative approach
> Heat to 11.5 for being close to LPL heat/damage that I see working as Blazer being the LPL alternative build than LL build, or:
> Heat to 10 to be straight up the most heat-efficient Large laser on the lineup in which I'm pretty sure Tiy0s will go out of the way to tell me off in the Forum comments to "stop cooking".

But for me, I'd rather rework BLC as such:

> Heat to 11.5 (from 13)
> CD to 4.00s (From 3.5), DPS to 3.4286
> Range to 540m (from 480)

The point of BLC in this setup is that, it's distinct and beyond just Two LLs at the price of 9-tons as an economical choice, but instead a competitor to the LPL by going at a different direction. It's a cold sustain laser instead. The DPS reduction by way of longer CD is to equalize the DPS/Ton down below Large-Lasers, that way they remain relevancy by retaining superior DPS in a 2-BLC vs 4-LL, and to further desync with IS ER Mediums.

KursedVixen, on 22 October 2023 - 10:42 PM, said:

I would propose making the C HLL have a closer duration to the BLC not the same but closer.

That would buff HLL, what are you thinking?

Wait, if it was a typo and another way around, nerf BLC to HLL duration?

No thanks on either.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 22 October 2023 - 11:15 PM.

[w0qj]

Guys, BLC is almostly literally 2x Large Laser strapped together.
Same damage, same heat. Same 4x critical slot consumed.

In fact, BLC is 1 ton lighter than 2x Large Laser.
BLC only consumes one energy hardpoint to boot.

So please tell me, how does BLC change the status quo for the worse?
(If you don't like the laser duration of BLC, then go back and use LL)

I think more heavy/assault mechs can field 3xBLC alpha (cough...HSL...cough) as a result...
and 3xBLC = 6xLL (ouch)!

Edited by w0qj, 22 October 2023 - 10:53 PM.

[Voice of Kerensky]

w0qj, on 22 October 2023 - 10:50 PM, said:

So please tell me, how does BLC change the status quo for the worse?
(If you don't like the laser duration of BLC, then go back and use LL)

This is not to say that BLC makes mechs worse. It even gives you extra free weight. Only this free weight often turns out to be useless.
For example, when replacing 2LL with 1BLC, you free up 1 ton of weight and 1 hardpoint, but do not free up a slot that could accommodate one ton of equipment (for example, 1 ERML). Those. often this is actually a useless ton and a useless hardpoint. And, if you change 4LL to 2BLC, you already get two useless tons and two useless hardpoints.
As an example, I’ll give you this build of TDR-5S-T (Top Dog).
3LL+5ERML:
https://mwo.nav-alph...97a408_TDR-5S-T

1BLC+1LL+5ERML:
https://mwo.nav-alph...576b2c_TDR-5S-T

As you can see, one ton of weight has been released, an energy hardpoint has been released, but the slot for its use remains blocked. Those in fact, this ton of free weight is useless: there is nowhere to put an additional laser or other equipment; the engine cannot be increased (there is not enough free weight); You can’t even increase the armor because he already has almost full armor.
And I saw a lot of similar situations when trying to rebuild my energy mechs on the BLC.

[KursedVixen]

Voice of Kerensky, on 22 October 2023 - 11:42 PM, said:

This is not to say that BLC makes mechs worse. It even gives you extra free weight. Only this free weight often turns out to be useless. For example, when replacing 2LL with 1BLC, you free up 1 ton of weight and 1 hardpoint, but do not free up a slot that could accommodate one ton of equipment (for example, 1 ERML). Those. often this is actually a useless ton and a useless hardpoint. And, if you change 4LL to 2BLC, you already get two useless tons and two useless hardpoints. As an example, I’ll give you this build of TDR-5S-T (Top Dog). 3LL+5ERML: https://mwo.nav-alph...97a408_TDR-5S-T 1BLC+1LL+5ERML: https://mwo.nav-alph...576b2c_TDR-5S-T As you can see, one ton of weight has been released, an energy hardpoint has been released, but the slot for its use remains blocked. Those in fact, this ton of free weight is useless: there is nowhere to put an additional laser or other equipment; the engine cannot be increased (there is not enough free weight); You can’t even increase the armor because he already has almost full armor. And I saw a lot of similar situations when trying to rebuild my energy mechs on the BLC.

you can up the engine for more speed. or you could max out the armor. also with the binary laser your firing the laser for .25 more seconds.

Edited by KursedVixen, 23 October 2023 - 12:17 AM.

[Curccu]

KursedVixen, on 22 October 2023 - 10:17 PM, said:

Because it's for IS not clans.... clans always Op IS never Op. despite the fact IS has all the faster firing weapons, more structure and more armor, colder weapons and a better skill tree..... becuase IS stuff is 'hevier' somehow they're not OP.

becuase IS stuff has less damage, less range, bigger, "hevier", insta death XL --> LFE = again "hevier", Worse Endo and sithloads worse FF.
Because all that weight savings usually clan mechs are a lot faster or have a lot more weapons compared to IS mechs.

--> show me IS mech with similar laser Alpha and 30 DHS mad-iic

KursedVixen, on 22 October 2023 - 10:17 PM, said:

I've been playing this game since just after it launched, I've seen the introduction of clans and everyone always whines about clans being OP while thier IS weapons almost always get buffed,

Not everyone just those who understand numbers and game balance, those with clan fanboi classes on have been QQin about nerfing clans since release.

KursedVixen, on 22 October 2023 - 10:17 PM, said:

it's nice for a change to finnally get a weapon that works like the HAG Unlike the ATM which in my opinion was a bit of a failure....

Yep specially after patch when you can 1-shot lights at 1000m...
... Agreed ATM vapor wasn't OP as f...

KursedVixen, on 22 October 2023 - 10:36 PM, said:

I didn't forget because Hags do not auto fire if you hold the button down

And you forgot about the charge up that needs to happen with racs you can just hold the button down not so with Hags...

Yep releasing button requires fine motor skills of 5 Year old child...

KursedVixen, on 22 October 2023 - 10:36 PM, said:

You can let go of the trigger on a rac any time then press the button again to resume firing because RAc has 0 cooldown

Unless your RACs are jammed...

KursedVixen, on 22 October 2023 - 10:36 PM, said:

And you forgot that unlike ALL Is mechs most clan mechs are omnimechs and have fixed components that limit space so even though we have small 2 slot double heat sinks which are equal in every other way to IS double heat sinks despite clan haveing much hotter guns, is limted by fixed equipment like jump jets ferro fibeorous, endo steel XL engines and any other fixed components... so we can't change from standard armor or structure to get more wight.

Very rarely can you fit stuff in the legs of an omnimech because the legs are usually full of fixed equipment heat sinks if not armor from ferro or endo.

You seem to forgot all the good parts of omnis like:
Direwolf can have more weapon hard points than game supports.
One variant has ECM --> All variants can have ECM
One variant has JJ --> All variants can have JJ.

edit:typo

Edited by Curccu, 23 October 2023 - 12:24 AM.

[Voice of Kerensky]

KursedVixen, on 23 October 2023 - 12:13 AM, said:

you can up the engine for more speed. or you could max out the armor. also with the binary laser your firing the laser for .25 more seconds.

Please re-read the quoted message more carefully.
If you don’t believe me, you can go to this link:
https://mwo.nav-alph...576b2c_TDR-5S-T
and try to increase the engine by a ton or add a significant amount of armor to the mech. Then you will immediately understand everything I said.

[PocketYoda]

Why not just stop people editing the cfg.. this is a bandaid at best.

Also what does this mean

Increased Crit chance (receiving) to -40% (from -25%)
Nerf?

[Mechwarrior2342356]

PocketYoda, on 23 October 2023 - 07:03 AM, said:

Why not just stop people editing the cfg.. this is a bandaid at best.

Also what does this mean

Increased Crit chance (receiving) to -40% (from -25%)
Nerf?

It means that something like, say, a Piranha peppering you with MG or pulses has a substantially lower chance of stripping components before it finishes you off, possibly buying you time for another shot to hit the little **** and kill him.

[Ken Harkin]

I have found the real benefit of the Binary to be on certain hard point strapped or selected geometry mechs.

Thunderbolt 5S with BLL, 3ERML, MRM30 LFE285
Marauder 5M with BLL, LL, 3 ERML, LGR
Marauder 5D with BLL, 4 ERML, MRM40

That "extra" LL greatly improves the effectiveness of each of those chassis.

Boating the BLL is tough as it takes up plenty of space which really makes for trouble when IS DHS take up 3 spaces on their own.

Neither the clan HLL nor the IS BLL need any changes in my opinion. Now the planned buff to the HAG is simply insane!

[Onigato69]

Maybe I am reading this wrong but the Thunderbolt TDR-5S only has 4 energy slots. Unless they consider ER Large Lasers and/or Binary Laser Cannons as STD Large Lasers there is no point to adding STD Large laser HSL +1 to this chassis. HSL limit for Large Lasers is 4, it can already fire the maximum without any quirks.

Side Note: The new Blight isn't worth the price of admission. It barely works as a Hero mech. It might have 3 more ballistic slots than the Marauder MAD-5M, but they are all center and head torso mounts, which is super limiting past machine guns. The 5M is quirked better unless you want C bills. The left/right ballistic is nice for big guns, maybe if it had a AC20 HSL +1, or heat quirks for PPC.

[OmgKllL]

Dear Developers, I strongly believe the HAG modifications are a severe mistake you can handle before the patch going live.
Like a lot of people have already said, it's a weapons system which is OP with the current stats, it doesn't need a buff.
IF you have to buff it no matter what, you should also give sostantial buff on a lot of the other weapon system (like the binary cannon which is garbage, the X-pulses which are worse than garbage, regular AC, srms and so on).

PS: stop buffing the lights without improving the netcode (or changing the engine, which is quite impossible)

[martian]

KursedVixen, on 22 October 2023 - 10:36 PM, said:

I didn't forget because Hags do not auto fire if you hold the button down

And you forgot about the charge up that needs to happen with racs you can just hold the button down not so with Hags...

You can let go of the trigger on a rac any time then press the button again to resume firing because RAc has 0 cooldown

Boy, this is just a matter of one split-second mouse click.

KursedVixen, on 22 October 2023 - 10:36 PM, said:

And you forgot that unlike ALL Is mechs most clan mechs are omnimechs and have fixed components that limit space so even though we have small 2 slot double heat sinks which are equal in every other way to IS double heat sinks despite clan haveing much hotter guns, is limted by fixed equipment like jump jets ferro fibeorous, endo steel XL engines and any other fixed components... so we can't change from standard armor or structure to get more wight.

You ignore the fact that you can also find Clan BattleMechs in MWO and that it is your personal choice if you deploy either in Clan OmniMech or in Clan BattleMech. No Inner Sphere player has such advantage.

I have already explained to you the difference between Binary lasers and Clan Heavy Large lasers. Just re-read your own thread that you started a few weeks ago: So Why Is It Clan Stuff Is Almost Tt, But Is Stuff Is Much Colder But Higher Damage In Almost All Case

You really can not cherrry-pick just one value, while wilfully ignoring all other stats that do not suit your agenda.

KursedVixen, on 22 October 2023 - 10:36 PM, said:

Very rarely can you fit stuff in the legs of an omnimech because the legs are usually full of fixed equipment heat sinks if not armor from ferro or endo.

Re-read the post that I have just linked.

I explained the difference between IS Double heat sinks and Clan Double Heat Sinks - specifically, the size advantage.

I also mentioned the Clan advantage of having more compact Endosteel chassis and Ferro-fibrous armor.

I also mentioned how those IS armor and structure quirks balance the Clan advantage of more powerful firepower.

Edited by martian, 23 October 2023 - 09:02 AM.

[GargoyleVine]

Frost_Byte, on 21 October 2023 - 01:15 PM, said:

Two things!

The lilypads were exploitable via user.cfg changes and players could see through them. They would offer no visual cover for some. We decided to remove them and remake the area to create a more balanced landscape between players who use user.cfg changes and players who don't.

We forgot to include it in the patch notes, but the bolton for the Vapor Eagle is glowing eyes. Here's a pic

so your gonna change the map to accommodate cheaters ?? I think you should post the names of the cheaters and suspend and/or revoke their mech pilot license

[Mechwarrior2342356]

GargoyleVine, on 23 October 2023 - 11:09 AM, said:

so your gonna change the map to accommodate cheaters ?? I think you should post the names of the cheaters and suspend and/or revoke their mech pilot license

Who cares anymore? WHY care anymore? It's pretty unambiguous that they care a LOT less than you do, and they're the ones in control.

[Glymbol]

Grey Hook, on 21 October 2023 - 01:08 PM, said:

LCT-1M:

• Removed SRM/SSRM Ammo per ton bonus
  
• Increased LRM/MRM/NARC Ammo per ton bonus to +250% (from +100%)
  
• Increased cooldown to -40% (from -30%)
  
• Increased Missile velocity to 50% (from 10%)
  
• Added +150m sensor range

I used to play LCT-1M with 2xSRM4 + 2xSLaser , it will be unusable after the patch. Pity. It was fun to play. I don't see this mech used at all. This setup worked for me. The change is seriously limiting options for 1M.

[SafeScanner]

Glymbol, on 23 October 2023 - 11:27 AM, said:

I used to play LCT-1M with 2xSRM4 + 2xSLaser , it will be unusable after the patch. Pity. It was fun to play. I don't see this mech used at all. This setup worked for me. The change is seriously limiting options for 1M.

use the 3s it will be the same if not better than the 1m now

Edited by SafeScanner, 23 October 2023 - 11:36 AM.

[Glymbol]

I know, I can do that and overall the changes are buffs for Locusts but after the patch the 1M won't be used at all I assume.