138 replies to this topic

[Weeny Machine]

Battlemaster56, on 14 November 2023 - 06:35 AM, said:

Hmm kinda sad to see no Jenner IIC quirks it would be nice to for it get some offensive quirks to make it more viable as a srm bomber like the Scale shot but at least the scale shot is getting nerf so that's good.

Yeah, that would be fun. Jenner IICs still feel incredibly fragile.

Actually quite a few 35t mechs need some help. I mean not more damage...but why not add some accel/decl and turning speed so that they can evade some of the sick barrages flying right and left?

Edited by Weeny Machine, 14 November 2023 - 10:55 AM.

[KursedVixen]

Weeny Machine, on 14 November 2023 - 10:55 AM, said:

Yeah, that would be fun. Jenner IICs still feel incredibly fragile.

Actually quite a few 35t mechs need some help. I mean not more damage...but why not add some accel/decl and turning speed so that they can evade some of the sick barrages flying right and left?

I think all lights need a minor back armor buff since they of all mechs will be running away from mechs.

Samziel, on 14 November 2023 - 07:41 AM, said:

First of all I disagree the direction they took with the HAGs. I thought it was fine or needed a heat nerf after the first set of changes. It was a good midrange weapon with an option to deal inaccurate fire long range. I've understood there are also some Cauldron members who think the same but dont quote me on that.

The spread reduction last patch already made it negligible. The heat and cooldown nerfs are significant and its being turned into a long range weapon only instead of jack of all trades. Biggest problems are not sniper builds but the super high alpha hagvomits. They will be too hot now and the sniper builds get lower DPS the same time.

Also they take balance adjustments in steps. This is not the final version and it will get more nerfs if its too good.

What needs done is to dial in the correct and perfect spread to make them good to about 700-650 meters and anything beyond that the spread is enough that you can accuratly hit a single component with more than 2 pellets.

[Weeny Machine]

KursedVixen, on 14 November 2023 - 11:01 AM, said:

I think all lights need a minor back armor buff since they of all mechs will be running away from mechs.

I would prefer better turning abilities for swerving and turning tail or in case of a harasser playstyle: be able to get into cover before I eat 2xHAG 40

KursedVixen, on 14 November 2023 - 11:01 AM, said:

What needs done is to dial in the correct and perfect spread to make them good to about 700-650 meters and anything beyond that the spread is enough that you can accuratly hit a single component with more than 2 pellets.

Exactly that. The heat change won't affect snipers anyway. They just move back and cool down

Edited by Weeny Machine, 14 November 2023 - 11:08 AM.

[Tarteso]

So:

1. Clan snipers got their toy buffed for long range, but more or less nerfed for the closer combat (doubtful, lets see).
2. To "balance" the IS sniper side, command console rework increases adv zoom to 7X, so they may grant us a laser depilation for free

A perfect plan.

As a side note, more tinkering with quirks and autocannon ammo.

Perhaps too soon to say, as this is only a "leak", but it seems like, again, they are not addressing more important issues affecting this game. Nor provide a roadmap to solve things (cauldrom or PGI). Or maybe they aren't perceived as problems... for them.

I see this as proof that they don't give a **** about opinions from outside their circle. Period.

Edited by Tarteso, 14 November 2023 - 11:07 AM.

[Samziel]

Hawk819, on 14 November 2023 - 10:06 AM, said:

Well, as usual, no new variants coming. Would love the Huntsman H, or any of the E variants. Hell, I'd kill for a massive patch full of Clan E and H variants. To be honest.

Did you miss all the loyalty variants? 7 new variants though not available for cbills just yet.

[Ken Harkin]

KursedVixen, on 14 November 2023 - 09:58 AM, said:

MASSIVE FONT

I am actually agreeing with much of what you say. I believe the HAGs are definitely too powerful/multirole in their current incarnation.

A couple items though, in the long range sniper game it is not that hard to get all 40 points from that HAG on a single component if it is coming at you, moving away, or stationary. Given most shots are being taken like that from long range it is not uncommon to find the mech way out at long range who thinks himself safe.

If you think a burst of 40 points is not serious you are definitely deceiving yourself. Everything is not a Fafnir and even that isn't going to be happy when you rip open its side torso after a couple volleys while it's HG cannot reach you. My go to HAG 40 chassis is a Stormcrow Lacerater. It has great cool down and ammo quirks. Add on two ERML and a couple laser AMS just to mess with those LRMs which are about and you can have a ball. The only real problem is close range knife fights with lights as getting the HAG shots all on target is not easy but the second that light runs straight line away you can punch right through it. Having ZERO spread while throwing our 40 points every 3.5 seconds thanks to cooldown at longggg ranges is ridiculously overpowered.

While I am singing the ridiculous praises of the HAG it still isn't my favorite or go to weapon / mech. That still rests with the MAD-5M using AC20, 2SPPC, 3ML. 310 meters of brawling brutality which can carry the fight just right side punching for 40 points pinpoint every three seconds. The HAG is NOT a brawling weapon, but it is overly effective as one in combination with its ridiculous range. Basically I would like to see it pick a lane.

[Battlemaster56]

Weeny Machine, on 14 November 2023 - 10:55 AM, said:

Yeah, that would be fun. Jenner IICs still feel incredibly fragile.

Actually quite a few 35t mechs need some help. I mean not more damage...but why not add some accel/decl and turning speed so that they can evade some of the sick barrages flying right and left?

That be amazing just to make them feel good to play alone would be more than enough than simple weapon quirks besides maybe ammo quirks.

+1 for big agility quirk pass for 35 tonners.

[epikt]

KursedVixen, on 14 November 2023 - 11:01 AM, said:

I think all lights need a minor back armor buff since they of all mechs will be running away from mechs.

That's why when run run away in a light (applies to all mechs really) you don't expose your back but you twist to present your arms.
I personally run 1 armor point on the back of all my lights, and to be honest I should run zero - if only I listened to reason and not my OCD telling me it's not "lore friendly to have parts without armor".... )

Tarteso, on 14 November 2023 - 11:07 AM, said:

Perhaps too soon to say, as this is only a "leak"

It a "leak" only in name, because it makes it a bit spicy and taboo, but it's 100% trusted source. Think about it as a teasing for next patch.

Edited by epikt, 14 November 2023 - 11:40 AM.

[Curccu]

KursedVixen, on 14 November 2023 - 11:01 AM, said:

I think all lights need a minor back armor buff since they of all mechs will be running away from mechs.

Front armor is way more useful, you can distribute that to back if you want. Usually fighting happens while showing front sector of your mech to enemy.

KursedVixen, on 14 November 2023 - 11:01 AM, said:

What needs done is to dial in the correct and perfect spread to make them good to about 700-650 meters and anything beyond that the spread is enough that you can accuratly hit a single component with more than 2 pellets.

With what kinda of math and spread cone do you accomplish that? If weapon is going to be accurate to 700 meters it's going to be pretty damn accurate to 1000 meters also.

[Weeny Machine]

Tarteso, on 14 November 2023 - 11:07 AM, said:

So:

1. Clan snipers got their toy buffed for long range, but more or less nerfed for the closer combat (doubtful, lets see).
2. To "balance" the IS sniper side, command console rework increases adv zoom to 7X, so they may grant us a laser depilation for free

A perfect plan.

As a side note, more tinkering with quirks and autocannon ammo.

Perhaps too soon to say, as this is only a "leak", but it seems like, again, they are not addressing more important issues affecting this game. Nor provide a roadmap to solve things (cauldrom or PGI). Or maybe they aren't perceived as problems... for them.

I see this as proof that they don't give a **** about opinions from outside their circle. Period.

Jup, it seems that they ignore other opinions.

I mean, as usual: sniping stay at least untouched or even more viable - as if this is needed in this sniping biased game

Opposed to things that could curb sniping like...
- light mechs...I cannot remember when they received a buff
- or X medium pulse lasers which are mediocre at best, especially in this meta

I said it before and I say it again: Assault pilots and snipers have been whining for years about light mechs. The second these guys stop complaining about light mechs, you know that lights are really f***ed. And they stopped complaining.

[Curccu]

epikt, on 14 November 2023 - 11:39 AM, said:

That's why when run run away in a light (applies to all mechs really) you don't expose your back but you twist to present your arms.
I personally run 1 armor point on the back of all my lights, and to be honest I should run zero - if only I listened to reason and not my OCD telling me it's not "lore friendly to have parts without armor".... )

1000% agreed, twisting is correct way to run away, back armor and internals will not be enough for light mech to survive from any kind of alpha if it hits... giving 1 arm and some of the side torso armor through damage transfer is way better.

1 armor in the back is good if someone scrapes your back with lazor and does.... 0,01 dmg, your mech will start smoking at that point if you take damage to internals and can give away your position.

[LordNothing]

Hawk819, on 14 November 2023 - 10:06 AM, said:

Well, as usual, no new variants coming. Would love the Huntsman H, or any of the E variants. Hell, I'd kill for a massive patch full of Clan E and H variants. To be honest.

there are a ton of new variants coming provided you bought stuff this year.

[Curccu]

Weeny Machine, on 14 November 2023 - 11:40 AM, said:

Jup, it seems that they ignore other opinions.

I mean, as usual: sniping stay at least untouched or even more viable - as if this is needed in this sniping biased game

Opposed to things that could curb sniping like...
- light mechs...I cannot remember when they received a buff
- or X medium pulse lasers which are mediocre at best, especially in this meta

I said it before and I say it again: Assault pilots and snipers have been whining for years about light mechs. The second these guys stop complaining about light mechs, you know that lights are really f***ed. And they stopped complaining.

Locusts and Commandos got buffed last patch.

We get few nice lights and pseudo lights with Loyalty program... those look very promising, fat stuff is pretty meh.

[foamyesque]

The HAG nerf is a nerf because the extant spread was genuinely essentially negligible, and the cooldown desync & increase and heat increase is impactful to poke DPS regardless of range, but, before doing all this faffing about with heat and stuff, why not just... increase the spread to something meaningful? The on-release numbers, or even higher? And then see how that plays with HAGvomit, and then go for heat / cooldown nerfs if required.

It's like people in Cauldron hate firecones, except I don't see the spread on missiles getting tightened...

[Quicksilver Aberration]

foamyesque, on 14 November 2023 - 12:26 PM, said:

It's like people in Cauldron hate firecones, except I don't see the spread on missiles getting tightened...

FWIW, they do hate firecones, except missiles aren't fire cones, they are cylinders (their spread does not get worse with range).

However the intent was to make HAGs more usable at range which with the spread they had before the last patch, made them worthless at long range.

Honestly I would've preferred a bit more heat and no cooldown nerf to ensure they are a bit more jack-of-all-trades primary weapons.

[dario03]

HAG change is supposed to be a test. It could (and imo should) go back on. I would probably try something like right between current and last values.

[foamyesque]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 14 November 2023 - 01:03 PM, said:

However the intent was to make HAGs more usable at range which with the spread they had before the last patch, made them worthless at long range.

If that was the intent, the intent is stupid, because HAGs have been fine at range in every version from day 1. As good as gauss or ERLLs? Arguably not, but only arguably, and better at it than every other class of weapon in the game up to and including ERPPCs.

They haven't ever needed buffs for long-range combat and anyone who says otherwise is operating in the wrong context, at best, and in deliberate bad faith, at worse. They have needed nerfs.

We'll see whether the heat changes and cooldown changes do anything, but my personal expectation is that they weaken HAGs in the short-to-midrange arena, which is fine, but don't impact them as much in mid-long to long range, where they're still going to be pretty potent.

It should make them less of a do-everything weapon and bring some of the shorter-range UACs back into consideration, especially in conjunction with the ammo buffs UACs are going to get, which is nice to see, but I'm not sure if it'll be enough to break the current HAG dominance.

Edited by foamyesque, 14 November 2023 - 01:33 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

foamyesque, on 14 November 2023 - 01:33 PM, said:

If that was the intent, the intent is stupid, because HAGs have been fine at range in every version from day 1. As good as gauss or ERLLs? Arguably not, but only arguably, and better at it than every other class of weapon in the game up to and including ERPPCs.

lolwut, they were definitely not "fine" at range the patch before this, I can't say about day 1 but I have my doubts given how bad the spread was before the latest patch. Let alone better than ERPPCs

foamyesque, on 14 November 2023 - 01:33 PM, said:

break the current HAG dominance.

What HAG dominance? I still haven't seen HAGs in any serious number, nowhere near when snubs were obviously OP. I don't even think they are the most dangerous mechs on the field right now. I'm more scared of BLC laser vomit than I am HAG boats.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 14 November 2023 - 01:55 PM.

[Meep Meep]

Hags are great at farming damage but the pellet stream makes spreading damage fairly easy unless you just stare at them and allow them to pinpoint a component.

[foamyesque]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 14 November 2023 - 01:52 PM, said:

lolwut, they were definitely not "fine" at range the patch before this, I can't say about day 1 but I have my doubts given how bad the spread was before the latest patch. Let alone better than ERPPCs

You only need two pellets from a HAG to hit to match the pinpoint of an ERPPC. That's trivial and always has been the case in each patch, and while spreading the rest of the damage over a 'mech isn't great compared to pinpoint it's an awful lot better than 'not being able to do it at all' and/or 'spreads even more', which is where every other weapon was and is at.

Moreover, averaged over multiple peeks, the difference between spread and pinpoint weapons becomes reduced, because even with pinpoint guns, if you have to shoot multiple times, it becomes a lot more difficult to hit the same component every time -- in effect, you have spread too.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 14 November 2023 - 01:52 PM, said:

What HAG dominance? I still haven't seen HAGs in any serious number, nowhere near when snubs were obviously OP.

You're not playing the same game I am, because HAGs are on damn near everything that carry them, because they can fight acceptably at any range and very strongly at mid-long poke.

Edited by foamyesque, 14 November 2023 - 02:20 PM.