107 replies to this topic

[pattonesque]

Pretty much the entire time I've played MWO, I've noticed folks make easily avoidable game-losing mistakes on a regular basis. I want to emphasize "easily avoidable" here because what I'm about to go over isn't like, arcane tech known only to competitive teams and the .001 percent of the playerbase. Many of you do fairly simple things incorrectly.

"Oh it's just the way I play the g--" no. These things mostly result from a lack of awareness or a reluctance to actually engage with the game. If you stop doing these things (and your opponents continue to do them) I guarantee you your win rate and KDR and AMS will bump up

1. YOU DIE TOO EARLY
I get it man, sometimes you get got and that sucks. You turn a corner and you get lit up, a lucky headshot comes in, etc. But I'm going to tell you a secret: for the most part, you can *choose* when you're at risk of dying. What??? -- you might ask, but it's true. Before you YOLO out of cover into an open field or press W as a light around a corner you know the enemy probably is hiding behind, ask yourself: if even one thing goes slightly wrong here, am I going to get shot at? If I get shot at, can I get to cover or kill the thing shooting at me quickly? If I'm a light trying to go for a backstab, are there other lights lurking? Can I successfully GTFO if things get hot? You should, for the most part, try to prolong your life as much as possible so you can at least present a credible threat to the enemy. I would almost rather have someone missing 90% of their shots on sniper overwatch but making the enemy team think twice about pushing their lane than someone who runs right in, does 250 damage, and dies two minutes into the match in a 7v1

2. YOU RUN AWAY
Again, I get it. You want to stay alive, so whenever someone shoots at you, you try to get to a spot where they can't do that. Totally fine. But many -- most? -- of you take this to an extreme. You get shot and hide behind a piece of cover forever. You see a push coming on the minimap -- if you're even aware of the minimap -- and you run away from it. Someone (me) tells you *exactly where the enemy is* and *exactly what they're going to do* and I've literally seen some of you *turn your back* on the other team and run away as a result.

Look, unless you're mega fast, at some point you're gonna have to stand and fight. The correct time to do this is not when your entire team has been easily picked off because most of you were fleeing. Even if you're outnumbered on a push, you're way better off receiving it with your full strength.

3. YOU COWER
Great, you found a piece of cover from which you can engage the enemy. Oh, no! Someone shot you! The correct thing to do here is either a. if you're in a place where your engagement is favorable, continue to fire at them. or b. if your engagement is not favorable, reposition to another piece of cover where you can engage better. What most of you do instead is this: you press S behind that cover and *stay there forever* until the other team, who can do whatever they want because you're not firing at them, moves to more favorable positions and kills you. You gotta left click -- sometimes right click -- on the enemy to win.

4. YOU GIVE UP
Oh no, there's a good group of players on the other team! Looks like there's no way you can win. Better tell everyone this on comms and then play the game like you've already lost. to be blunt, this is loser talk. Even the absolute best players on this team still lose like 20% of the time. If you try your best, that number will go up.

5. YOU TAKE BAD POSITIONS
Please stop sprinting to the low ground or HPG basement or the valleys of Canon Network and wonder why you keep losing. Low ground is fine sometimes but in general you should be defaulting to high.

There's more but these are pretty basic. Notice how I'm not saying "you need to hit all your shots, your map knowledge needs to be perfect, you need elite reaction time." Try this simple advice and I guarantee you'll win more.

Edited by pattonesque, 29 July 2024 - 02:03 PM.

[LordNothing]

this can all be called typical event behavior. seems to happen whenever there is an event, especially a loot bag event. when i did part 2 the gameplay was just ***. i presume part of this is players that do not play regularly. but it doesn't take me more than a couple games for it to come back to me. but i cannot do work or make effective trades if people are hiding. i get focused and i die. but at the same time i didn't drop to pretend im still in the lobby. "wait for them to come" usually just means you are not ready when the enemy come blasting. but i have to say you get loot bags faster if you JUST PLAY NORMAL. i think the best match i had this phase was when the servers were being shut down for the hotfix, and we only had 5 minutes to play the match. both teams agreed to dog it to the middle for an all out brawl, one player said "this is the way the game should be played" and i totally agree.


if people are playing like ***, i reserve the right to be aggressive, it gets me in another match faster that's fine. if it inspires others to action, thats better. its also a lot of fun. usually il say something like "can we move closer so i can hit them with my ppc and do damage" before declaring it hopeless and doing my kamekaze run. sometimes half the team has to die before the shorter ranged builds can get close enough to be useful. sometimes i feel like im chained to the walking dead. yoloing it is still stupid, but its less stupid than the alternative in this case.

also the high/low ground thing, i dont believe dedicated brawlers should start in the high ground. you should move to high ground when you get into weapons range, and should plan for that, where, when, equip jump jets or know the ramps, etc. people with long range weapons should default to the high ground. in cases where dropping is an option (crimson, rubelite), start high, see the enemy with your own eyes and then drop if necessary. sure its nice to have extra armor on the line, but it just goes to waste if you cannot return fire and do effective damage. its effectively a bad trade. you have to realize the other team also has brawlers, and if they opt to stand with their buddies and accumulate damage, they will be disadvantaged when you actually face them.

[w0qj]

This one is easy… me being in your team!

But seriously, I tend to be amongst the first three to die in our team…
Being a big, fat assault mech may have something to do with this!

[Saved By The Bell]

Yesterday I lost may be 18, win 2.

All was so terrible, never what I try.

Should read some book, stupid me.

[Novakaine]

Yesterday I watched a 3 v 1 on my mini map.
I was amazed as the 3 blue taco vanished one by one.
In the space of 2 minutes.
Kinda sad.

Edited by Novakaine, 30 July 2024 - 07:37 AM.

[Meep Meep]

Distribution of skill in this game is very broad at least in terms of relative performance. Even in t1 there is a vast gulf between someone just breaking into t1 and a top 500 jarls player. The gap between 500 and top 10 is just as broad. So sometimes you get matches with a bunch of hoplites going against Achilles. It ends about as you would think.

Edited by Meep Meep, 30 July 2024 - 11:04 AM.

[Drenzul]

Biggest reason I see for losing this game as three-fold:

1> Murderball

1 Group murderballs, either 1 of two things happens. Murderball gets stopped by 3-4 mechs then flanked and murdered.
or
1-2 people try and stop murderball before it rolls up flanks.
or rarely
The twin murderball... where two murderballs chase each other round the map. Like the circle of murder.
Literally saw two teams just running in circles till the timer ran out once.... neither would engage. Map ended like 2-2

2> Not helping teammates

Someone pushes... multiple assaults right next to him don't follow. One mech pushing alone is most often dead. 2-3 mechs
pushing often = victory.
Same when on the receiving end of an attack. When the enemy is focusing on a teammate rather than them, I've seen untouched assault mechs already heading for cover instead of covering their friendlies.

Unfortunately this game doesn't actually reward team-work very well other than well, getting more victories.

3> Group hiding.

You've got like 6+ mechs in a huddle, you basically NEED to push somewhere or fall back. There are very few
places in the game this is advantageous unless you are mid-push as you are easy to outflank and murder.
Its not going to take long before lights/mids are popping up behind you taking pot-shots.

Most often see this on mining colony where one side will push heavy up the right (like always), then stop and not
push into the centre so you have a whole huddle of mechs that stays there till the rest of their team is murdered, then
they get flanked and murdered themselves.

Edited by Drenzul, 30 July 2024 - 02:12 PM.

[pattonesque]

Meep Meep, on 30 July 2024 - 11:00 AM, said:

Distribution of skill in this game is very broad at least in terms of relative performance. Even in t1 there is a vast gulf between someone just breaking into t1 and a top 500 jarls player. The gap between 500 and top 10 is just as broad. So sometimes you get matches with a bunch of hoplites going against Achilles. It ends about as you would think.

I addressed this in the OP. There is a skill gap for sure but many folks do unskilled things that are *easily fixable*. You don't need to hold your laser burns perfectly on target or land 1km legshots to a flea to do any of this.

[k0vec]

Holy **** the lowground ****, vitric literally spawns you right in front of the ramp up and I still have 10 players on my team going under, this might be my biggest tilter because vitric and canyon always win map vote with at least 60%

[Besh]

I'll add

- people do not use "R" and don't command wheel +E enough ;
- people dont shoot - they will have one or even more Targets in sight, weapons are ready....and they just do not shoot;
- people do not look at minimap - they will stand somewhere, looking to the left, oblivious to the 2 Mechs on their team frantically doing their best to prevent the opfor flank, targetting the flanking Mechs...just around the corner to their right ;
- people ignore spotted and/or called out threats ; they will get told in voice, and by target spotting "There are 2 snipers behind us", noone on the team reacts....then, a few moments later, people start complaining about getting shot into the back ;

Edited by Besh, 31 July 2024 - 12:28 AM.

[Drenzul]

Oh yeah, really annoying when you scout, see the bulk of the enemy force, report it, then watch as your team gets completely rolled up by it cos no-one reacts at all.

[Besh]

I do need to mention these timeless classics by Void Angel...

https://mwomercs.com...s-not-a-tactic/

and

https://mwomercs.com...fracking-atlas/ (which is not entirely accurate anymore, it does lack some nuance, which is due to when it was written and how Game has changed since then / core principles still very much valid ) .

Among with "MWO Tactics 101", they make good endgame comments when frustrated by Team basically throwing the match away .

"MWO Tactics 101 - google it" or "Look up "Timidity is not a tactic" by Void Angel on the MWO Forums" is much better than
"Stupid Team suxxorz!"

Edited by Besh, 31 July 2024 - 03:35 AM.

[Dryderian]

Saved By The Bell, on 29 July 2024 - 09:15 PM, said:

Yesterday I lost may be 18, win 2.

All was so terrible, never what I try.

Should read some book, stupid me.

I am a mid lvl player and I am not a regular player anymore. It depends heavily on the mech and loadout you choose. Lights are pretty good doing their own thing, snipers whatever weight class do their thing also. Assaults can make a stand near the end of the match, if they are in the right mech and know what they are doing.

I play mainly medium mechs and heavies in a support role, fit and play them like that. You are dependend on your team. Playing mid range as I do is not easy with the power creep. If you make a wrong decision, you are too slow and too big to get away in many situations.

Summa summarum you are to a great degree heavily dependent on your meatier team mates to join the fight.

In some matches they join you shooting at a target, in other matches you join them in shooting a target. In many they are just standing behind a corner next to you. And you get destroyed.

You do not need to read a book. You just have end up in a match in which the participants on your side play as a team. Also, yes, pressing R and seeing the targets damaged parts helps a lot. It should basically the first thing you do encountering a target.

Edited by Dryderian, 01 August 2024 - 02:46 PM.

[Saved By The Bell]

I mean, there is time, when you cant win and must offline.

[Meep Meep]

pattonesque, on 30 July 2024 - 03:31 PM, said:

I addressed this in the OP. There is a skill gap for sure but many folks do unskilled things that are *easily fixable*. You don't need to hold your laser burns perfectly on target or land 1km legshots to a flea to do any of this.

What tier are we talking about because in tier 1 when a sweaty lance queues up they often run 90%+ win rate sessions completely destroying the other team and farming multiple thousands of damage and most of the kills between them. Of course when they drop down to solo they get rekt by the queue about as much as anyone else win rate wise even if they did score a lot. But the point remains that Achilles and his merry band do just the same in this game as in the movie. The only defense against that is having your own Achilles and merry band to oppose them and hope your puggie meat shields are better than the other sides.

[smokefield]

such a long topic for such a simple answer...

it is not at all about the enemy team skill, its all about your own team's stupidity.

[Meep Meep]

smokefield, on 02 August 2024 - 10:23 AM, said:

such a long topic for such a simple answer...

it is not at all about the enemy team skill, its all about your own team's stupidity.

I mean your not wrong..

[1453 R]

All well and good to say "My dumb stupid teammates lost me the match!", and frankly that's true as often as not.

But have you ever considered, Generic You referring to the audience at large rather than any one specific player mod team, that to everyone else you are the Dumb Stupid Teammate? And if you keep making ******* decisions you'll never be anything but?

I know my issues. I play a lot of dumb junk, and I'm a forty year old woman with Forty Year Old Woman reflexes and middling-at-best aim skill. I am sadly prone to Issue 1 and overcommitting early, and the entire flippin' playerbase is prone to Issue 5. And unfortunately, when your entire team takes a dogpoo position on the map, you being the sole guy who takes the better position mostly means you're breaking Void Angel's rules and Not Following the Fracking Atlas. A bad plan pursued aggressively and with malice aforethought is worlds above three good plans at odds with each other and pursued piecemeal and halfheartedly - if your team decides to be the Bad Ground Brigade it's on you to make the best damn plays you can from that bad ground.

But it's still the other team's game to lose at that point. And frankly the absolutely breathtaking amount of Chickendicking, i.e. Issues 2 through 4, doesn't help. Chilling behind a rock and waiting for everyone else on your team to win the game for you is never a winning strategy. You may occasionally win anyways, but it is in spite of your presence on the team, not because of it.

If you're not engaging the enemy, you're losing. Engaging the enemy is no guarantee of winning, but not engaging the enemy is a surefire way to lose.

Edited by 1453 R, 02 August 2024 - 11:03 AM.

[Meep Meep]

Nine-Ball, on 02 August 2024 - 05:38 PM, said:

- A small group of trolls manages to cap base before anybody can slap them down

I sometimes do that with a spider. +100% cap speed with quirks is basically two mech capping and if an actual second mech starts capping it goes really fast.

[pattonesque]

Meep Meep, on 02 August 2024 - 09:59 AM, said:

What tier are we talking about because in tier 1 when a sweaty lance queues up they often run 90%+ win rate sessions completely destroying the other team and farming multiple thousands of damage and most of the kills between them. Of course when they drop down to solo they get rekt by the queue about as much as anyone else win rate wise even if they did score a lot. But the point remains that Achilles and his merry band do just the same in this game as in the movie. The only defense against that is having your own Achilles and merry band to oppose them and hope your puggie meat shields are better than the other sides.

Groups of skilled players are always going to do well, that's just the nature of ... reality. They'll do significantly less well if the opposing team actually attempts to make it difficult for them instead of finding new and creative ways to Die Immediately.

I would highly encourage you to reread and consider this point:

pattonesque, on 29 July 2024 - 02:02 PM, said:

4. YOU GIVE UP
Oh no, there's a good group of players on the other team! Looks like there's no way you can win. Better tell everyone this on comms and then play the game like you've already lost. to be blunt, this is loser talk. Even the absolute best players on this team still lose like 20% of the time. If you try your best, that number will go up.