21 replies to this topic

[pald84]

Hello !

I know that the oxide was overpowered when it cames out, but they destroyed years ago when the dev chose to make lights bigger.

Now we are 8 years later and the powercreep has been huge :

It's time to make the oxide great again !

Let's use this topic to discuss about what would the oxide need to reach the meta lvl

From my point of view to oxide was a good skirmisher at it was small, nimble and had good firepower at this time.

Now the oxide is too big to play short range, can we skrink it this way :



Remember from good old time

Edited by pald84, 13 December 2024 - 10:28 AM.

[Ttly]

Yeah, a lot of lights are rather neglected because apparently some people are so good at playing them that they don't deserve getting buffs or something.
But hey, I'd agree with buffing the Oxide, I seriously doubt anyone would complain if it were to have +200% missile ammo quirk like pre-nerf Scaleshot because it's a large IS Light (so less armor) with no JJs anyway for its role of a missile boat light mech.
A niche that it competes with Commando (actually got recently buffed), Javelin (probably worse than it in most cases), Jenner-IIC (hardly has quirks on the missile variant other than heat related ones while being glass), and now the loyalty program Firestarter (no ammo or real weapon quirks other than velocity which is really only useful on MRM builds).

Edited by Ttly, 13 December 2024 - 04:21 AM.

[pald84]

Can we shrink it back to a decent size ?

I would do something like this :

Edited by pald84, 13 December 2024 - 04:47 AM.

[Ttly]

pald84, on 13 December 2024 - 04:24 AM, said:

Can we shrink it back to a decent size ?

Shrinking lights wouldn't solve positioning misplays people do on them that gets them killed, sure it lets you abuse covers and jank terrain hitboxes more, but is that really what lights should only be about? Besides, you'd just get people that can't aim complaining about those darn evil unhittable lights on top of those
Besides, it's a 35t light, having it be any smaller would just seem comical for what shouldn't be too far off from the likes of Assassin (terrible lack of quirks and nearly obsoleted by Griffins by the way) or Vulcans.
Really, I'd say ammo quirk as a start would be decent as freeing up 1-2 tons occupied by ammo would allow you to up-rate XL engines a lot and would give it a lot more speed.

Or you know, you can just play the Commando instead at that point.

Edited by Ttly, 13 December 2024 - 09:50 AM.

[Requiemking]

Unfortunately OP, Cauldron is never going to push for a meaningful Light buff, least of all Oxide. The reason for that? April 2016-June 2016, the period of time where, due to that Light's crazy quirks(for the time at least), it was hands down the best IS mech in the game.

Edited by Requiemking, 13 December 2024 - 09:53 AM.

[pald84]

Requiemking, on 13 December 2024 - 09:53 AM, said:

Unfortunately OP, Cauldron is never going to push for a meaningful Light buff, least of all Oxide. The reason for that? April 2016-June 2016, the period of time where, due to that Light's crazy quirks(for the time at least), it was hands down the best IS mech in the game.

i know, My YT is from 2016. It was overpowed indeed but super fun ! with the powercreep since 2016 we could make the oxide playable again by skrinking it to a decent size IMHO

[LordNothing]

want to fix it, give it a light gyro. this allows it a little more tube count. this would give it the potential to have 4 extra tubes (24 instead of 20 with standard srms, or 20 isntead of 16 asrms). you would probibly also want ammo quirks to make those builds possible. its technically possible you just need to downgrade to an xl200 for the artemis build but you could only have 2.5 tons ammo.

really wish mechdb would let me play around with current fixed equipment like light gyros and small cockpits in its custom chassis builds. for this kind of theory crafting.

actually these kind of things would fix a lot of problem lights by giving them a few more slots to use for upgrades and equipment.

Edited by LordNothing, 13 December 2024 - 11:26 AM.

[Ttly]

LordNothing, on 13 December 2024 - 11:10 AM, said:

want to fix it, give it a light gyro. this allows it a little more tube count. this would give it the potential to have 4 extra tubes (24 instead of 20 with standard srms, or 20 isntead of 16 asrms). you would probibly also want ammo quirks to make those builds possible. its technically possible you just need to downgrade to an xl200 for the artemis build but you could only have 2.5 tons ammo. really wish mechdb would let me play around with current fixed equipment like light gyros and small cockpits in its custom chassis builds. for this kind of theory crafting. actually these kind of things would fix a lot of problem lights by giving them a few more slots to use for upgrades and equipment.

Compact gyro (4 CT slots instead of 2) and compact LS+cockpit (2 HD slots instead of 1) on lights, that's really only 3 extra slots at most, for most lights that's not really going to change much other than maybe something like the stealth armor Flea being able to squeeze in an extra small laser on its ST hardpoint. Cramping in a single extra DHS to make some builds playable with it at all with IS FF Armor+Endo Steel at most I guess?
Or just generally cramping in ammo on the head so they're less susceptible to crits (not that they have much structure to take said hits anyway) too.

Or in some cases with CT mounts, squeezing in larger slot weapons there.

Edited by Ttly, 13 December 2024 - 12:30 PM.

[LordNothing]

Ttly, on 13 December 2024 - 12:24 PM, said:

Compact gyro (4 CT slots instead of 2) and compact LS+cockpit (2 HD slots instead of 1) on lights, that's really only 3 extra slots at most, for most lights that's not really going to change much other than maybe something like the stealth armor Flea being able to squeeze in an extra small laser on its ST hardpoint. Cramping in a single extra DHS to make some builds playable with it at all with IS FF Armor+Endo Steel at most I guess?
Or just generally cramping in ammo on the head so they're less susceptible to crits (not that they have much structure to take said hits anyway) too.

Or in some cases with CT mounts, squeezing in larger slot weapons there.

there are at least a couple light mechs that i wish i had just one more slot. a lot of lights need an xl and all the upgrades, which doesnt leave a whole lot of room for weapons and ammo. in the case of the oxide it lets you put in larger missiles in the center hardpoints. i dont think it needs an extra head point.

you could also do 2 more hardponts if you pull the upper arm actuator as in the duelist so it can have arm mounted hgauss. that doesnt do anything for the oxide though, but it can free up 2 more hardpoints if needed on other mechs. head hardpoints in general can benefit from the small cockpit to enable larger weapons like lppcs and large lasers.

sometimes i wish these things were not fixed (still mandatory) so i could swap them out at will on some mechs, but that might be a big ask.

Edited by LordNothing, 13 December 2024 - 04:15 PM.

[Navid A1]

We're talking about some boosts for it in January.

Expect higher agility, a speed quirk and possibly an ammo boost quirk.

[w0qj]

How about this:

IS Jenner Oxide hero mech, Mark II (Mk II), with Compact Gyro?
(Something like the COM-D03)

[LordNothing]

w0qj, on 13 December 2024 - 08:20 PM, said:

How about this:

IS Jenner Oxide hero mech, Mark II (Mk II), with Compact Gyro?
(Something like the COM-D03)

the cool thing about the com-d03 is it makes a good zombie build. was running that tonight to get my protected lights.

[Meep Meep]

w0qj, on 13 December 2024 - 08:20 PM, said:

How about this:

IS Jenner Oxide hero mech, Mark II (Mk II), with Compact Gyro?
(Something like the COM-D03)

Yes. We need more compact gyros for mechs with 2 ct weapon mounts.

[Ttly]

Meep Meep, on 14 December 2024 - 03:36 PM, said:

Yes. We need more compact gyros for mechs with 2 ct weapon mounts.

As long as it's not on assaults I guess, just look at the SNPPC Warlord for what sort of stuff compact cockpit already enables, let alone giving it compact gyro on top of that.
Another thing it also enables would also be stealth armor, the new Legend Cataphract can comfortably have enough slots for XL engine, DHS, stealth armor, plenty of ammo, AND JJs but it's not like it has that much quirks and the damage comes from not so accurate weapons I guess.

Edited by Ttly, 14 December 2024 - 03:43 PM.

[Meep Meep]

I'm looking more at lights and mediums for a general compact gyro refresh for mechs in those classes with two ct weapon hardpoints if adding them doesn't unlock some unholy weapon combo. Things like the pirates bane with two ballistics ct. If you go all small lasers then you can mount two mg or one mag even though you have the tonnage to fit two mags.

[LordNothing]

Meep Meep, on 14 December 2024 - 03:36 PM, said:

Yes. We need more compact gyros for mechs with 2 ct weapon mounts.

make head hardpoints useful again for once.

[simon1812]

PGI should fix the scale for all mechs for that matter.

[kalashnikity]

Oxide currently has

Missile- Cooldown -15%, Range +10%, Speed +10%, Heat -10%, Spread -15%

They could remove the Cooldown and Heat, and replace with -20% missile spread, +20% missile range boost, and +20% missile speed boost, making it both more viable for SRM,...

And LRM, surely nobody can complain about an LRM Oxide being too OP for QP.

[Ttly]

kalashnikity, on 15 December 2024 - 03:25 PM, said:

Oxide currently has

Missile- Cooldown -15%, Range +10%, Speed +10%, Heat -10%, Spread -15%

They could remove the Cooldown and Heat, and replace with -20% missile spread, +20% missile range boost, and +20% missile speed boost, making it both more viable for SRM,...

And LRM, surely nobody can complain about an LRM Oxide being too OP for QP.

More viable for SRM? -spread% is more of an help for MRM thing, and exchanging -cooldown% for it is kind of bad for SRMs you ask me.
Really, if you want LRMs too you'd want -cd% over -spread% as well, you can see how much -spread% actually "helps" LRMs if you test drive one of the Cataphracts, one of them has -75% missile spread quirk and it just doesn't really change their quality of hit that significantly just because LRM lock-ons focuses on the "groin" area of a target vehicle if they can help it because that's where the center node on the models are or something, which leads to some hits (assuming they don't just hit cover on real matches) being wasted on leg over torso hits that hardly anyone capitalizes on.
Oh right also enemy players moves around and leading shots with low velocity weapons is always a chore I guess, and some spread on missiles actually kind of helps with that since it works off a different spread model from LBs. On LBs where if your aim isn't on top of the target's model, the gun would aim for the terrain behind, and if that terrain is hundreds of meters away? Well your shot that is otherwise only couple pixels away from the enemy might turn into an total miss, missile spread thankfully doesn't work the same way.

Example of a TOTAL MISS with LB20:

Spoiler

You can see the crosshair being only pixels away from the target and is aiming at the terrain 500m ahead instead of 300m ahead where the target is, and if you fire the LB, the projectile spread would miss entirely.
With SRMs, this doesn't happen.

Also what's with the weird fixation on shrinking models anyway?

Edited by Ttly, 15 December 2024 - 05:30 PM.

[LordNothing]

i think the problem with lights is that the mech size varies wildly with tonnage. compare a 20 tonner with a 35 tonner. im comparing a piranha with a firestarter because thats whats in my favorites list (having 724 mechs makes the mechlab incredibly slow and im not pulling up the flea/jenner comparison). the piranha looks like it could fit entirely in the firstarter's torso and you could chop up another and stick it in 2-3 of its limbs. comparing the two is like comparing an adder to a dire. the way the face of the fish comes up to the fist of the firestarter.