176 replies to this topic

[NEUR0MANCER]

This is bad, like playing beta again but less fun.

[1453 R]

a 5 year old with an Uzi, on 08 August 2025 - 12:19 PM, said:

Well, guess I will see what queue looks like when I get home from work. Posts so far not engendering optimism.

Eh. Most of the negging posts are from folks with no previous forum presence. Doesn't invalidate what they say, but it does suggest a few things when it comes to game mode reception. Normally-silent folks coming onto the forums to complain means a sharp dislike from those folks, but by the same token the normally-silent folks who like 8v8 aren't going to post saying so. They're just gonna keep playing. So you'll see the negative reactions but not the positive ones.

[One Delta Isomer]

Holy hell! Suggested a light, end up on a team with half ****** lights. I would rather wait a few minutes. This is a huge fail. Looks like brawl on every map so far.

[MisterBooger]

not a fan, alot of 1 or 2 kills to 8, seems it snowballs too fast with only 8 players, no real way to make a comeback off a good flank. in 12 v 12 I see 5-6 kill deficits turn around, just doesn't happen at 8 v 8, a couple kills down means its pretty much over.

Quick addition, after 5 more games, not one was close either 8 - 2, 3 - 8 , etc see you guys in 10 days i guess

for that guy that mentioned you see more 1-2 post folks chiming in, that should tell you something, I have played this game since beta on 3 different accounts, hundreds of different mechs...not saying I am good at it or anything, but i have my moments, and this was my first ever post here to say it is less fun at 8v8.

Edited by MisterBooger, 08 August 2025 - 02:04 PM.

[Turumba]

Well, +1. Dont like it. Battles are too fast. Came back from a long break and have to learn and relearn a lot, plus of course I want to try out different mechs and builds. Turns out I pay a hefty toll in pilot skill, which feels already wierd, but I can live with that. Now thou, it's turbo payment with very little learning opportunities. Move, clash, finish. One brawl, thus you have to go in, ready or not.
For me personally this is no fun.
I think it should be a option to check or uncheck in the quickplay button. Or better have a normalplay (12vs.12) button next to quickplay (8vs8) button -which maybe misses the point, if the problem is the amount of players not the waiting time... because down here at the buttom of barrel there is no waiting time problem.

[1453 R]

Turumba, on 08 August 2025 - 01:46 PM, said:

Well, +1. Dont like it. Battles are too fast. Came back from a long break and have to learn and relearn a lot, plus of course I want to try out different mechs and builds. Turns out I pay a hefty toll in pilot skill, which feels already wierd, but I can live with that. Now thou, it's turbo payment with very little learning opportunities. Move, clash, finish. One brawl, thus you have to go in, ready or not.
For me personally this is no fun.
I think it should be a option to check or uncheck in the quickplay button. Or better have a normalplay (12vs.12) button next to quickplay (8vs8) button -which maybe misses the point, if the problem is the amount of players not the waiting time... because down here at the buttom of barrel there is no waiting time problem.

T1 players can often end up waiting in queue for longer than they spend playing. There is simply not enough population left in the game to support two independent queues. It's a single Soup Queue and occasional Event shenanery they get away with by disabling matchmaking altogether.

The game's code base was also originally designed for 8v8, and the Cauldron has confirmed the game's performance is better across the board in that mode.

Tactics will adjust, but frankly the idea of fast, aggressive battles where people actually FIGHT THE ENEMY instead of chickenwinging behind a rock for eight minutes every... GODDAMN... match... sounds absolutely incredible. Can't wait to get off shift and try it properly.

Edited by 1453 R, 08 August 2025 - 02:11 PM.

[tatopot]

**obligatory** First post.

The 8v8 sucks. Now I have even longer wait times.
The fights are even more lopsided.
Wake me up when we are back to 12v12.

[LordLaguz]

1453 R, on 04 August 2025 - 07:08 AM, said:

Why is everyone always so utterly freaking ***mad over 8v8?

8v8 is categorically, inarguably, objectively a better game than 12v12, whichever way you split it. There's a reason comps have always played 8v8. Fewer guns means higher time to kill (a thing everybody claims to want) and way more room to make interesting plays or survive and learn from unforced errors. Individual efforts and ability matters far more, Murderballing is noticeably less effective (this is an undeniable positive), and each player contributes more completely to the outcome of the match. And if any of that bothers you then consider trying a little harder, rather than drinking three PBRs and smoking a joint prior to every drop of MWO. This is 'The Thinking Man's Shooter' after all, not the "Get liquored out the wazoo and see if I can tell which of the three blurred Atlases on my screen is real" shooter.

Quit demanding you get carried and start holding yourself to task when you get knocked out at sub-200 damage. Frankly the game should never have made the jump to 12v12, I honestly believe that mistake is a significant silent contributor to MWO's overall decline over the years.

Some people like chaotic matches, you keep throwing blanket statements and asuming ****, deflecting with "git good" to a more complex problem. and we have the right to complain if we don't like something. (hopefully in a constructive way), yet you aldo dismiss those with "git good or shut up". Are you even arguing on good fate?

[The Angle]

tatopot, on 08 August 2025 - 02:35 PM, said:

**obligatory** First post.

The 8v8 sucks. Now I have even longer wait times.
The fights are even more lopsided.
Wake me up when we are back to 12v12.

Same...this happened before and it sucked. Same thing again...they should just wipe this from their list of "fixes".

See you all on 8/13.

[1453 R]

LordLaguz, on 08 August 2025 - 02:38 PM, said:

Some people like chaotic matches, you keep throwing blanket statements and asuming ****, deflecting with "git good" to a more complex problem. and we have the right to complain if we don't like something. (hopefully in a constructive way), yet you aldo dismiss those with "git good or shut up". Are you even arguing on good fate?

There's nothing "chaotic" about a typical 12v12 match.

Just about every 12v12 match on a given map/gametype combination is effectively 100% identical to every other match on that map/gametype combination, because the overwhelming majority of average MWO players are so heavily inclined towards cowardice that they've become incapable of most any other action. even when someone tries to steer the herd and make strong calls to change up the gameplan, most of the time at least half of the team ignores that person to:

1.) waddle their 85~100-ton Original Recipe keister to the exact same Chicken Wing Certified™ camping spot they waddle to EVERY SINGLE TIME they hit that map, where they:
2.) proceed to jiggle around behind that piece of cover for between five to eight minutes accomplishing precisely and exactly nothing, until:
3.) someone else on the team manages to secure a Comfortable Advantage - usually a bare-*** minimum of being four kills up - at which point the Chicken Wing decides it's "safe" to waddle out from behind the cover they've humped so hard they owe it a portion of their match payout for child support. They join the fight effectively after it has already been won, and then afterwards they:
4.) proceed to either complain about not having done enough damage to Rank Up, or brag about how awesome and amazing and skilled they are for suffering almost no damage through the match they didn't bother participating in until it was already decided.

Literally anything that alters this pattern in ANY meaningful way is like a drop of celestial dew upon the tongue of a parched man in the desert. The overabundance of firepower in a 12-man Murderblob has trained cowardice into the blood and bones of virtually everyone in this game. Y'all want people to be less gung-ho about 8v8?

STOP BEING FRICKIN' CHICKEN WINGS AND AGGRESS THE ENEMY!!!!

Void wrote about this twelve god damned years ago, and yet there's still maybe three people in any given 24-man match who isn't morbidly terrified of getting in a giant robot fight in their giant robot fighting game. If you're not firing your weapons, you'd best have a good and proper reason why. And no - "I don't waaaaanna take damage!" is not a good and proper reason.

[LordLaguz]

1453 R, on 08 August 2025 - 03:01 PM, said:

There's nothing "chaotic" about a typical 12v12 match.

1453 R, on 04 August 2025 - 10:06 AM, said:

As well, more 'Mechs = more chaos = more dramatically less fun

1453 R, on 08 August 2025 - 03:01 PM, said:

Just about every 12v12 match on a given map/gametype combination is effectively 100% identical to every other match on that map/gametype combination, because the overwhelming majority of average MWO players are so heavily inclined towards cowardice that they've become incapable of most any other action. even when someone tries to steer the herd and make strong calls to change up the gameplan, most of the time at least half of the team ignores that person to:

1.) waddle their 85~100-ton Original Recipe keister to the exact same Chicken Wing Certified™ camping spot they waddle to EVERY SINGLE TIME they hit that map, where they:
2.) proceed to jiggle around behind that piece of cover for between five to eight minutes accomplishing precisely and exactly nothing, until:
3.) someone else on the team manages to secure a Comfortable Advantage - usually a bare-*** minimum of being four kills up - at which point the Chicken Wing decides it's "safe" to waddle out from behind the cover they've humped so hard they owe it a portion of their match payout for child support. They join the fight effectively after it has already been won, and then afterwards they:
4.) proceed to either complain about not having done enough damage to Rank Up, or brag about how awesome and amazing and skilled they are for suffering almost no damage through the match they didn't bother participating in until it was already decided.

Literally anything that alters this pattern in ANY meaningful way is like a drop of celestial dew upon the tongue of a parched man in the desert. The overabundance of firepower in a 12-man Murderblob has trained cowardice into the blood and bones of virtually everyone in this game. Y'all want people to be less gung-ho about 8v8?

STOP BEING FRICKIN' CHICKEN WINGS AND AGGRESS THE ENEMY!!!!

Void wrote about this twelve god damned years ago, and yet there's still maybe three people in any given 24-man match who isn't morbidly terrified of getting in a giant robot fight in their giant robot fighting game. If you're not firing your weapons, you'd best have a good and proper reason why. And no - "I don't waaaaanna take damage!" is not a good and proper reason.

I don't know what matches are you playing, i don't see that many people camping from behind or grinding away in mid, i see matches going different ways, such as flanking/pincers, nascars, brawls, the camping you mention (2forts syndrome), backcap panic, etc.
8v8 feels far more monotonous, just a series of skirmishes and 1v1s/2v1s while assaults get left behind by mediums as everyone seek their own target as a call of duty style team deathmatch.
I used to play 8v8 in release, and i don't miss those times, specially now that i'm reminded how QM turns into your usual TDM shooter. All that's left is to hug your assault so it doesn't fall get his back demolished and play escort since flanking means another 1v1 duel or getting pushed by those who play hand in hand as mentioned before. Right now, slow assaults are absolutely worthless if your team refuses to stay near you, and you have to commit to anything your fellow assault does, or you will eat ****.
And for the love of god, enough with the blanket statements, in every game you will see people avoiding damage, and the ratio here isn't that big compared to any other from what i have seen, i rarely see non-damaged mechs during the second-half of the match.

[1453 R]

A series of skirmishes and 1v1 or 2v1 encounters where people move and shift and fight a fast-paced battle, instead of clump together into an eight hundred ton Litterbox Leaving of rank cowardice? Count me in! Just played exactly that sort of game in my first 8v8 of the night on River City. A Conquest match in my Clan Archer (which is admittedly one of my strongest and most consistently effective 'Mechs). it was an absolute delight, being able to maneuver with relative freedom and not having to worry about getting swatted by sixty AC/2s from the Bane Patrol the moment I poke my nose the slightest bit out from behind a rock. Mr. Wolf never lets me down.

Hyperslow gunblob assaults should be a niche choice. The Murderblob allows slow assault 'Mechs to get away with crap they have absolutely no business getting away with; swift and agile light 'Mechs are supposed to be their bane. If you want to bring seventy tons of guns, forty tons of ammo, thirty tons of armor, and fourteen pounds of leg myomer to the fight, you get to pay the cost in mobility the same way that somebody bringing a light 'Mech to the fight has to pay the cost in durability and firepower.

Less firepower on a team means everyone gets to move more freely, and their own firepower matters more. Medium 'Mechs matter again, and light 'Mechs are actually functional. That is awesome, and I'll be enjoying it even though my Baggie Grind for stage 1 is already complete.

[LordLaguz]

Maybe lights will move around, every 1v1 i see from medium and above is both guys rooted in place torso twisting.
Mediums and heavies are useful, assault are tanks, but they need support, which they don't get anymore because light, mediums and lower-ton heavies rush for their duels and heavy their assaults alone. Every match i played as assault i had to play catchup to my team who didn't gave a **** i couldn't reach them in time.
The relationship of weight classes work in a similar way to a ww2 navy, they are not meant to fight alone ignoring the rest of the team for the sake of getting more kills.
What does that lead to? same problem you mention in 12v12, which is everyone doing their own **** (instead of camping behind not getting damaged, is rushing into battle, letting others get hit by enemies they refuse to engage because they go for duels they can win.
If you want a 1v1 2v2 duel mode, then request it, i'm fine with such a mode and might be a fun activity for people who want such a thing, but 8v8 is NOT 8v8, its 1v1+1v2+1v2+2v2+1v1+1v1+1v1+1v1+2v2 playing in parallel to the rest the entire match barely interacting with the others. It's not about teamplay, there is no flanking, no pushing, no pincers, no ambushes, only people looking for duels on a big *** map. And everyone has to play it, with no choice to play a proper team game, only duels and duos.
Heavies are not a niche, they are useless without hugging each other, lights and mediums turn into brawlers, they don't ambush or scout, lrms boats are useless too, they will get pushed and die, which means the team is defacto playing a -1 game from the start. If they make the game a 8v8, it will not end in a heathy mix of weights, it will be a medium/heavy brawl endless tdm with only close and mid-range direct fire weapon. If you like to brawl, it will be fun, if you like to do anything else, you will just quit.

Proper 8v8 would need smaller maps with pre-defines spots for long-range mechs to attack from, probably ending up in a 3-lane setup like cod and counter-strike.

See a pattern? Might as well just make it a 5v5 bomb-planting game in maps similar to dust 2, which at that might i might as, why even play mechwarrior? Just play CoD or CS2

Edited by LordLaguz, 08 August 2025 - 05:15 PM.

[1453 R]

Heh. It's funny how you talk about flanking, pushing, pincers and ambushes as if any of that crap happens in a typical 12-man match.

Basically every twelve-man match is nothing but six to eight hundred-ton a**holes clumping up and trundling towards the middle of the map at a scorching 25 or so klicks, taking into account the ninety seconds they take to remember where their 'Go' button is at the start of the match, and expecting anyone who didn't opt to take a Big Dumb Slow Assault 'Mech to die pointlessly as bait to draw the two Mindless Blobs of Gun together.

People have been complaining about the ultra-topheavy nonsense that is the current MWO meta for years, but now that something happens which makes piloting a horrible hundred-ton abomination of guns and ammo an actual trade-off rather than just The Correct Way To Play, every First Post Fred in the world is coming out against it? Man. Weird how that is sometimes.

[darkjabroni]

Is the game dying? Not enough players to justify the server cost?

[LordLaguz]

I talk about flanking, pushing, pincers and ambushes because that IS what i see in my matches (i see blobs too, but its not as common as you claim, by far.) Once again, you claim one thing, i claim another, and according to you it's only blobs 24/7. I will admit that it does happen and it can be boring, but it's not as bad as you say or i would have quitted a long time ago.
Since it's clear you have no intentions of reaching a common ground with me and prefer to deal in absolutes, i will just drop this part, no point talking to a wall.

And what's why the "first post fred" remark? you think that because we prefer to play the game rather than to use the forum we can't express our frustration at suddenly getting forced to play 8v8, which turns the gameplay into something entirely different? There is no patch or rework in any game that doesnt have that, and they have the right to complain as part of the playerbase, just as you have the right to complain about the blobs or campers.
Don't go around appealing to "postcount" as a way to invalidate other's opinion. Now it's clear to me you have no intention of arguing in good fate, so i will not reply to you anymore, because nothing i say will make you consider other points of view or seek a compromise between both sides of the argument. You don't talk with people, you talk at them. So i will not waste my time anymore. Enjoy your 10 days of duels. And i will say the next part as an olive branch: i recommend that you try armored core 6 as an alternative to this game, since it's closer to your play style, fast phased duels with no objectives or tactics, just moving around picking fights one after the other. If hawkin or robocraft were still alive, i would also mention that, but sadly they are gone. There are other games that may fulfill the playstyle you desire without the blobs, campers and wings, so seek alternatives if 12v12 remains and you grow too tired of it.

Edited by LordLaguz, 08 August 2025 - 05:52 PM.

[Eschnoir]

Sweet change. The less people the faster the matches are, and I like that a lot.

I don't really mind any loss of strategy because people rarely strategize at all other than "get that UAV" or the occasional escort 'mech.

darkjabroni, on 08 August 2025 - 05:35 PM, said:

Is the game dying? Not enough players to justify the server cost?

Remember to support PGI, friends!

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

Okay 8v8 is ROUGH so far. Goes fast, snowballs fast, a mistake feels more fatal. Lot more aggression and brawl. Separation is death.

I don't know how it was before but this is extremely different from 12v12.

[Centurion Petreus]

"No Sir, ... I don't like it!"
Mr. Horse
(Ren & Stimpy)

1/ This completely changes everything, from game play and tactics to mech choices, layouts AND weapons selection, making gameplay for 'rewards' a LOT less relevant.

2/ I will not spend money on a game I no longer enjoy playing.

3/ I will NOT even play a game I no longer enjoy.

Given the above, and the fact that I AM NOT ALONE in this seems guaranteed to DECREASE both player attendance AND revenue.

All this, because some (prima-donnas from the cauldron?) complain about wait times edging up??

B*A*D Business Decision, Guys!

(... and it's got me wondering:
Is this some sort of last, desperate, failing attempt to extract all possible revenue before the license expires???)

Edited by Centurion Petreus, 09 August 2025 - 03:30 AM.

[1453 R]

LordLaguz, on 08 August 2025 - 05:40 PM, said:

I talk about flanking, pushing, pincers and ambushes because that IS what i see in my matches (i see blobs too, but its not as common as you claim, by far.)

Perhaps you're in a higher tier than I am. But frankly whenever "Tactics" happen in a MWO match I'm in, it's pretty much always by sheerest accidental happenstance - or it's because TKK dropped a lance into that game and we're exercising some basic coordination in our desire to break away from The Blob.

LordLaguz, on 08 August 2025 - 05:40 PM, said:

And what's why the "first post fred" remark? you think that because we prefer to play the game rather than to use the forum we can't express our frustration at suddenly getting forced to play 8v8, which turns the gameplay into something entirely different?
...
Don't go around appealing to "postcount" as a way to invalidate other's opinion.

Nothing about your post count invalidates your opinion. I don't have any issue with someone new to the community making their entrance. I do find the twenty or thirty brand-*** new names who've never once in their entire lives felt the need to comment on MWO at all who all decided to descend en masse into the comments on a website they barely know exists to try and poo-poo 8v8 incredibly suspicious. This game doesn't have enough concurrency to regularly produce large spikes of new players/accounts like that, but its small population does make it potentially quite susceptible to people smurfing just to try and make their opinion seem more widespread than it is.

Do I think every New Guy carping about 8v8 is a smurf? Nah, not at all. But the pattern has my flags twitching all over red.

LordLaguz, on 08 August 2025 - 05:40 PM, said:

And i will say the next part as an olive branch: i recommend that you try armored core 6 as an alternative to this game, since it's closer to your play style, fast phased duels with no objectives or tactics, just moving around picking fights one after the other.

I've been playing Armored Core for most of my life, actually. Got to the lower A ranks in Nest in Fires of Rubicon. There are absolutely tactics in FoR, though it is unfortunately prone to Rock Paper Mech.

LordLaguz, on 08 August 2025 - 05:40 PM, said:

If hawkin or robocraft were still alive, i would also mention that, but sadly they are gone. There are other games that may fulfill the playstyle you desire without the blobs, campers and wings, so seek alternatives if 12v12 remains and you grow too tired of it.

You are under the impression that all I want is a mindless high-speed blastfest, a'la old stuff like Quake. This is not the case. You tell me you see all sorts of interesting tactical plays, as well as telling me you are an assault 'Mech main. I tell you that I see almost no tactical plays in MWO because everybody is too terrified of getting instagibbed by seven Banes to peek out of their own shadows, and the preponderance of overtonnage in the game - which is a direct result of 12v12 - makes for slow, boring, crappy fights where nobody ever moves and nothing ever happens because each side has just.

Too.

Much.

GUN.

The firepower needs to come down. It needs to. We cannot keep doing the bit where every single team is made up of seven-plus assault 'Mechs, not a single one of which can defend themselves from anything lighter than fifty tons.

Get OUT of the Banes, people. Get OUT of the Stone Rhinos. Get OUT of the Dire Whales. Get OUT of the Bullsharks. I'm begging y'all. Try playing stuff that's actually capable of A.) moving, and B.) defending itself. You'll be amazed at the difference it makes.