950 replies to this topic

[Melcyna]

Well given enough time they probably will fix it since it should appear in the statistic....

hopefully anyway... they could also not care unfortunately or sufficiently occupied in schedule that any realistic hope of them fixing it will not arrive any time soon...

in any case, lore wise whether it was intended or not the engine size limitation on the battlemechs are fairly straightforward to reason out, which is perhaps one of the very few things in BT that runs on any degree of common sense within it's limited context.

[Just wanna play]

Melcyna, on 05 May 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

Well given enough time they probably will fix it since it should appear in the statistic....

hopefully anyway... they could also not care unfortunately or sufficiently occupied in schedule that any realistic hope of them fixing it will not arrive any time soon...

im curious as to how effective each ams is, maybe they are very good, you just cant notice

[Melcyna]

Based on what we've observed so far anyway, each AMS is roughly effective against 5 LRM missiles or so assuming they were fired in one salvo (if they come one missile at a time the AMS probably will be much more effective).

which is to say that if someone fired an LRM 5 on an Atlas with 1 AMS, none of the LRM will reach the Atlas usually, and with LRM 10, roughly half will be shot down, so baring problems like duplicate targeting (which would make more than 1 AMS on a mech less efficient) we can probably assume it equates to 10 LRMs worth of missiles shotdown before it reaches the mech when equipped with 2 AMS.

AMS are generally not effective against SRM or Streak SRM.

so overall, it will thin SOME down... but it will not in any way stop a missile boat worth of LRM salvo from doing crippling damage, it should be fairly effective however at reducing the effectiveness of the low LRM count salvos that some ppl throw into the mix. Problem is, there are usually lots of these guys so although each of them may only pack LRM10-15 each, if several of them fired together which is often the case if you get lit on sensor, even double AMS aren't going to stop enough of them to prevent serious damage on the armor.

Edited by Melcyna, 05 May 2013 - 06:33 PM.

[Just wanna play]

Melcyna, on 05 May 2013 - 06:28 PM, said:

Based on what we've observed so far anyway, each AMS is roughly effective against 5 LRM missiles or so assuming they were fired in one salvo (if they come one missile at a time the AMS probably will be much more effective).

which is to say that if someone fired an LRM 5 on an Atlas with 1 AMS, none of the LRM will reach the Atlas usually, and with LRM 10, roughly half will be shot down, so baring problems like duplicate targeting (which would make more than 1 AMS on a mech less efficient) we can probably assume it equates to 10 LRMs worth of missiles shotdown before it reaches the mech when equipped with 2 AMS.

AMS are generally not effective against SRM or Streak SRM.

so overall, it will thin SOME down... but it will not in any way stop a missile boat worth of LRM salvo from doing crippling damage, it should be fairly effective however at reducing the effectiveness of the low LRM count salvos that some ppl throw into the mix. Problem is, there are usually lots of these guys so although each of them may only pack LRM10-15 each, if several of them fired together which is often the case if you get lit on sensor, even double AMS aren't going to stop enough of them to prevent serious damage on the armor.

probably helpful against those stalker lrm boats that only launch about 20 at a time, not so much against a REAL lrm boat though

is the 2nd ams on the k really wroth the hard point disadvantage?

[Haitchpeasauce]

PlagueChampion, on 31 July 2012 - 12:38 AM, said:

- in the future the death star it STILL NOT FINISHED

That's because it was finished in the past ... A LONG TIME AGO.

[Melcyna]

Just wanna play, on 06 May 2013 - 02:43 AM, said:

probably helpful against those stalker lrm boats that only launch about 20 at a time, not so much against a REAL lrm boat though

is the 2nd ams on the k really wroth the hard point disadvantage?

No, not really...

1 of the reason being that ECM being as powerful as they are, is generally far more effective at minimizing LRM attrition damage

2 being that these days with ballistic and energy weapon state rewind in place, ppl are MUCH MUCH more accurate than before with their guns and lasers.

now you can expect even fast medium and lights to be nailed by AC shells and gauss slugs from 500-1000m, as an Atlas, you can pretty much expect every shot from these to hit... so overall, improving some measure of protection of LRM at the cost of direct firepower which are now more important than ever is not worth it.

ECM is by and far a much more sensible investment for defensive mechanism against the LRM rather than double AMS, at least until MWO nerf it eventually or more reliable method of piercing ECM veil comes.

[Just wanna play]

Melcyna, on 06 May 2013 - 04:21 AM, said:

No, not really...

1 of the reason being that ECM being as powerful as they are, is generally far more effective at minimizing LRM attrition damage

2 being that these days with ballistic and energy weapon state rewind in place, ppl are MUCH MUCH more accurate than before with their guns and lasers.

now you can expect even fast medium and lights to be nailed by AC shells and gauss slugs from 500-1000m, as an Atlas, you can pretty much expect every shot from these to hit... so overall, improving some measure of protection of LRM at the cost of direct firepower which are now more important than ever is not worth it.

ECM is by and far a much more sensible investment for defensive mechanism against the LRM rather than double AMS, at least until MWO nerf it eventually or more reliable method of piercing ECM veil comes.

well what about if the enemy team has a light with ecm or tag and knows how to use it, then your ecm is useless, and how is ams "at the cost of direct fire-power"

[Just wanna play]

and if the lrm boat has tag, again, your ecm is useless, while dual ams will work fine, i bet dual ams is very good against poorly though out lrm boats like those 5 lrm 20 stalkers, easily shooting down half the missiles of most variants
there is also the ecm disadvantage of announcing your presence to the enemy, making ambushes just a tiny a bit harder, as well as sneaking by in a light

[Melcyna]

as far as ECM is concerned, they just minimize the ECM profile if they really are afraid of announcing their presence to non ECM mech by switching to counter mode which doesn't remove their signs completely, but is less attention grabbing especially if the enemy doesn't have an ECM mech nearby.

AMS is an even bigger sign that announces your presence, since it immediately goes off on ANY missile nearby even if it doesn't go at you and everyone can see from fair distance if the AMS goes off, or hear if they are close enough.

If they encounter another ECM light that move fast enough to enter direct line of sight view, well chances are they are going to be detected directly anyway. ECM by and far is the superior defensive mechanism since in an average fight especially in pub ppl rely on the sensor feed as their crutch for situational awareness, many fights essentially are won simply because pub players have absolutely no idea that just 300m next to him his teammates are being clobbered to pieces because they don't appear on his sensor.

Someone using tag at you? sure he get to use his LRM at your ECM mech, but that also means he is in DIRECT line of sight to the ECM mech, before his LRM reaches the ECM mech he eats ER PPC (god everyone spam PPC and ER PPC like no tomorrow these days) and he's guaranteed to take all of the damage from the ER PPC at least since tag only have effective range of 750m which is below the effective range of ER PPC. The only exception to this is if you got a proper LRM tagger working in tandem with the LRM boat, ie: the LRM boat never enters field of view of the target... if it's the LRM boat itself that carries the tag, he can expect to be shot in return.

and against heavy LRM boats, even if their missile launcher port is not massive like stalker LRM boat (you rarely see them these days) dual AMS won't stop enough of them, in one volley the stalker LRM boat launches a maximum of 32 LRM into the air immediately assuming maximum capacity salvo (10 each on arms, 6 each on side torso) out of this 32, 10 of these will get shot down leaving 22 still in the air...

out of say 80 LRM of a 4 LRM20 boat (that can still carry more weapons) a maximum of 30 or so will be shot down.... that still leaves at least 50 essentially coming at the Atlas.

So unfortunately, dual AMS or no... those LRM are still going to strip most of your armor quickly... where the dual AMS can do wonders is if you got several of them clustered closely together to make overlapping AMS battery. Here AMS do better job than ECM since ECM doesn't really gain much with overlapping ECM field... and you only need 1 ECM per close group..

Edited by Melcyna, 06 May 2013 - 09:56 PM.

[Just wanna play]

lol and going into ecm counter mde kills the point of ecm


its all about the narc if you got a real lrm boat tagger, give em ecm, narc, maybe tag, some other weapons (maybe even machine guns) and there you go

and shooting down thirty missiles is gonna help out for sure, and if your sneaking up on someone i doubt you will have missiles flying at you to make the ams go off

and 50 missiles hitting an atlas is what? 35 damage? spreading all over the atlas thats not very good

[Melcyna]

not really kill the point of ECM because the whole point of it is to remove their presence from sensors and avoid lock from missiles, if they are certain they are out of line of sight and stealth is absolutely paramount and they want to minimize the chance of tipping them off then flipping to counter mode removes the signs of their presence for the most part for non ECM mechs for no real penalty.

if they believe they are about to enter exposed area or they are certain they have been spotted they just flick it back to jamming mode with a switch.

pound per pound, you can't beat ECM functionality... for what it cost to mount it.

And AMS will go off on ANY hostile missiles within the umbrella maximum range, for example in frozen city, if an LRM boat outside the cave fires a salvo near enough to the ice wall, AMS of a mech within the cave will start immediately firing straight into the cave wall

the AMS have no line of sight prevention into their targeting in MWO, you could be right behind a building that is completely covering you with an LRM boat on the other side for example, and the moment that LRM boat fires it's salvo your AMS starts barking loudly hitting the building attempting to hit the LRM on the other side of the building.

playing a light mech in particular makes this incredibly stupid, you managed to run in next to or right behind an LRM boat that's been busy pelting ur team, using terrain to mask your approach, and before you nicely sneak up to him and line up to his rear armor, your bloody AMS starts barking loudly and shooting at his LRM salvos... sometimes ppl are dumb enough to actually still not realize my presence even then... but anyone else with their brain still intact can see and hear the damn thing going off and immediately starts breaking to bear their sight on me.

and NARC? sure, NARC is nice... assuming you want to get into range for it that is... i mean it's a 270 max range, and while that's fine and all it's essentially something that should be only attempted by an ECM mech since otherwise getting into 270m to fire off a NARC is likely to get the spotter killed.

Edited by Melcyna, 07 May 2013 - 04:02 AM.

[Just wanna play]

Melcyna, on 07 May 2013 - 03:53 AM, said:

not really kill the point of ECM because the whole point of it is to remove their presence from sensors and avoid lock from missiles, if they are certain they are out of line of sight and stealth is absolutely paramount and they want to minimize the chance of tipping them off then flipping to counter mode removes the signs of their presence for the most part for non ECM mechs for no real penalty.

if they believe they are about to enter exposed area or they are certain they have been spotted they just flick it back to jamming mode with a switch.

pound per pound, you can't beat ECM functionality... for what it cost to mount it.

And AMS will go off on ANY hostile missiles within the umbrella maximum range, for example in frozen city, if an LRM boat outside the cave fires a salvo near enough to the ice wall, AMS of a mech within the cave will start immediately firing straight into the cave wall

the AMS have no line of sight prevention into their targeting in MWO, you could be right behind a building that is completely covering you with an LRM boat on the other side for example, and the moment that LRM boat fires it's salvo your AMS starts barking loudly hitting the building attempting to hit the LRM on the other side of the building.

playing a light mech in particular makes this incredibly stupid, you managed to run in next to or right behind an LRM boat that's been busy pelting ur team, using terrain to mask your approach, and before you nicely sneak up to him and line up to his rear armor, your bloody AMS starts barking loudly and shooting at his LRM salvos... sometimes ppl are dumb enough to actually still not realize my presence even then... but anyone else with their brain still intact can see and hear the damn thing going off and immediately starts breaking to bear their sight on me.

and NARC? sure, NARC is nice... assuming you want to get into range for it that is... i mean it's a 270 max range, and while that's fine and all it's essentially something that should be only attempted by an ECM mech since otherwise getting into 270m to fire off a NARC is likely to get the spotter killed. HOW????? how would ecm save the mech in question anyway? if your main group is moving in and is brawling the other team, one of them couldfirte off a anarc to allow lrms to be fired at that opponent

i have yet to see an ecm user smart enough to turn ecm off when trying to sneak up on me

dude if lrm boats can shoot at you being stealthy has already gone out the window, and i doubt there are that many occasions when there are lrms flying within 90m of you and there is cover in the way, if there isnt cover, your just saving a team mate from getting hit and the ams might have just helped you find an lrm boat

your still distracting the lrm boat, and like you said, since everyone has ppcs these days he will probably get lots of return fire (or your teams lrm boat will make it rain on him)

ecm+narc+light= lrm boats bff

and come on really? never waste the lights tonnage on an ams, never use ams on lights unless you are using it to shoot down lrms in the begining to help teamates)and i couldnt help but notice that many people have said ams shoots many more then 10 missiles down per salvo, so im sure 10 isnt a completely accurate measurement, one guy said his atlas-k can shoot down 50 missiles when he drives it accordingly


sure ecm MIGHT be better when it works, and isn hit by ppc, tag, another ecm, and you care about the fact that you HAVE to choose a mech with a hard points disadvantage (i see lots of unarmed zombie d-dcs these days)to be able to carry ecm, and at closer enough ranges (or against a good lrm user) it wont stop unguided barrages (*you would be suprised how easy these are to use against silly ecm users)

and any mech can carry good ol ams, i use them on ALL my mediums when i am using them to support heavies, not to mention ecm raven is REALLY slow (fastest raven is as fast as slowest commando...), ecm atlases are often disarmed (like i said), spider 5d can be out maneuvered by 5v and cant use the EPICNESS that is the quad mg, any other ecm mechs, cant remember


ecm is a lot less reliable then ams, ams is always there for you until ammo runs out, ecm can get you killed in various ways and is just plan over used these days (and with the common no mini-map bug people are getting used to working with out it) sure ecm is helpful and is good to have on a mech on your team, but ams is, im sure many can agree, just better

and you *dont* care about the fact

and pgi is looking into lrm buffing and ecm nerfing so who knows what the future holds

[Melcyna]

The fact they needed nerfing at all of their current functionality was something we already knew and a statement of their raw strength.

the fact that ppl resorted to PPC spam these days are 3 parts: 1. PPC actually usable now after the projectile state rewind is implemented, 2. PPC are pretty good when you can actually hit with them, 3. ECM is still the bane of most matches especially in pub, so anything that can help mitigate their veil is a good effect.

ECM is not a 'might be good' equipment the matches thus far have already shown that they ARE de facto good if not quite a tad too strong for their cost, hence why they needed to be readjusted in the first place

That's a fact right in the face, there's no sidestepping on the issue since if there isn't a problem caused by the ECM then they will be left intact in the first place.

The PPC disruption was the 1st or was it 2nd? (i forgot the sequence) soft nerf effect introduced to help mitigate their power (ECM party was rampaging back in the day and teams with no ECM mech can expect lopsided result), then TAG was improved in range (or perhaps TAG came first before PPC emp) to help further mitigate that (twice in a row), then the UAV introduced soon is yet ANOTHER soft nerf to them or at least attempts for such.

Tripple soft nerf in about 2 months time? 3months now? And that's aside of any plan to nerf it directly... If that doesn't tell a point, i dunno what will given what the match direct effects are.

It is true however that AMS can be mounted on every mech rather than the limited variants of ECM, which is an advantage... an advantage... with a bloody good reason, if every mech can mount ECM, most mech on the field will most likely mount one... since they are so light yet gives so much powerful function to the mech.

incidentally 50 missiles? hahahaaha... maybe if the missiles come out of a 1 single tube launcher like on some mech eh? i mean hyperbole or not it should be rather obvious that 50 missiles will not be stopped by even a cluster of several mech all mounting AMS since this is not uncommon on the field... and we CAN SEE clearly that the AMS come nowhere close to stopping them, short of breaking line of sight path for the missile.

and MG??? Epic??? in the same sentence???

Spoiler

you must be using a super MG or something.... ppl been trying to get the 'improved' MG ever since they were buffed with the extra internal crit effect to work with great effort...

long story short: they r still not worth their weight and slot.

don't get me wrong, MG have great visual effect and sound... we would LOVE to have good MG and use it, many of us desperately tried to get it to somehow work or at least be worth installing... but looking good is one thing, actually being USEFUL and worth their weight is another, and MG still aint worth a damn sadly.

no i take that back, one guy managed to find the best use of MG so far (no ammo).... as a decoy to avoid critical damage on other more important equipment when you have a slot and a hardpoint and 0.5 ton to spare.

Edited by Melcyna, 08 May 2013 - 07:45 AM.

[Just wanna play]

i have yet to see ecm be the real determining factor in a match
and once ecm is nerfed, since imo its already fine the way it is, those that use it will start saying it is 2 weak, and those that used it before will say its just fine being useless

i said "might be" because ecm isn't as reliable as ams, which is always doing its job, ecm "might" be doing its job

and i was unaware pugs are good at countering easy to use equipment and simply overwhelming force (think atlas) instead of simply calling it op after it "gets them killed", or calling people hackers after they easily kill them

does something really have to be "worth its weight and slots"th taking a long?? i mean, large lasers have less damage per tonnage and heat compared to the other lasers, overall the bigger the weapon the less tonnage and crit slot efficient it is, but that doesn't mean its not worth using

and i would like to point out once armor is off (and 4 mgs provide a constant not that bad dps with uot any heat) 4 mgs are epic at removing a targets equipment in that area (think of an atlas, no armor on the arm, sure it would take 34 damage to destroy that limb, but with a spider armed with mgs backing you up all the weapons in that arm can be quickly destroyed, same when an atlas with torso weapons is going zombi, instead of wasting time killing him, you can focus on someone else since it is no longer a threat
frankly imo everyone should try slapping in an mg into their atlas D once they get some spare weight to use because then they can prematurely disarm people (and like you said, they sound EPIC)

someone needs to start using experience and real world results instead of statistics to say whats good and what isnt......

and stop putting those stupid spoiler alerts in your posts

I FORGET WHO BUT SOME ONE ON THE FORUMS SAYS MGS ARE OVERPOWERED (MAYBE KONIVING?)

[B0oN]

Exilyth, on 30 July 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

- Space ships weighting in at multiple thousands of tons can travel faster than light by using a ridiculously small amount of energy.

Pointing your arse, which is very light sensitive and linked to a metric gigaload of accumulators, towards a sun without any kind of filtering to accumulate the solar energy for a week (give take 2 days, depends on sun´s energy output) generates only " a ridiculously small amount of energy" ?

I´m kind of not so sure there, mate ...

[Just wanna play]

Rad Hanzo, on 08 May 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

Pointing your arse, which is very light sensitive and linked to a metric gigaload of accumulators, towards a sun without any kind of filtering to accumulate the solar energy for a week (give take 2 days, depends on sun´s energy output) generates only " a ridiculously small amount of energy" ?

I´m kind of not so sure there, mate ...

true dat

oh i got one


you need to add a ton of weight to a missile launcher so the missiles know to fly closer together!!!

[B0oN]

...only if you look at someone the "funny" way until your missiles have safely detonated on the chosen surface

[Melcyna]

Just wanna play, on 08 May 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

true dat

oh i got one


you need to add a ton of weight to a missile launcher so the missiles know to fly closer together!!!

Missiles technically don't fly close together, that is the ridiculous fact not that it takes them an equipment to do it or it's weight... a more or less suicidal attempt essentially since missiles has to perform a fairly high G maneuver to keep up with anything but non maneuvering target and having others next to it means the missiles either needs to have awareness of it's surrounding and keeping track of where they are at all times and synchronize any maneuver attempt with them or they risk mid air collision (hence why no one in the real world does that kind of thing and why rockets in our world are fired in ripple salvo not simultaneous salvo unless if either of them are a fair distance apart.)

and in keeping with the thread theme... ECM of BT or rather MWO in this case is a nonsensically ridiculous ECM at that since ECM in our world don't render a high profile target off sensors with high energy output, the concept is fairly ******** since any powerful EM waves emitter (including ECM) is automatically broadcasting itself and is easy to detect in terms of direction the only part that such powerful transmitter can obscure from an EM sensor like radar is the distance component, but not the direction and certainly not the presence, anything powerful enough to emit a signal that can overpower another transmitter (ie: EM sensor) is the opposite of difficult to detect and will pretty much appear as a bright torch, instead of being subtle and invisible to the sensor.

Just wanna play, on 08 May 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

i have yet to see ecm be the real determining factor in a match
and once ecm is nerfed, since imo its already fine the way it is, those that use it will start saying it is 2 weak, and those that used it before will say its just fine being useless

i said "might be" because ecm isn't as reliable as ams, which is always doing its job, ecm "might" be doing its job

and i was unaware pugs are good at countering easy to use equipment and simply overwhelming force (think atlas) instead of simply calling it op after it "gets them killed", or calling people hackers after they easily kill them

does something really have to be "worth its weight and slots"th taking a long?? i mean, large lasers have less damage per tonnage and heat compared to the other lasers, overall the bigger the weapon the less tonnage and crit slot efficient it is, but that doesn't mean its not worth using

and i would like to point out once armor is off (and 4 mgs provide a constant not that bad dps with uot any heat) 4 mgs are epic at removing a targets equipment in that area (think of an atlas, no armor on the arm, sure it would take 34 damage to destroy that limb, but with a spider armed with mgs backing you up all the weapons in that arm can be quickly destroyed, same when an atlas with torso weapons is going zombi, instead of wasting time killing him, you can focus on someone else since it is no longer a threat
frankly imo everyone should try slapping in an mg into their atlas D once they get some spare weight to use because then they can prematurely disarm people (and like you said, they sound EPIC)

someone needs to start using experience and real world results instead of statistics to say whats good and what isnt......

and stop putting those stupid spoiler alerts in your posts

I FORGET WHO BUT SOME ONE ON THE FORUMS SAYS MGS ARE OVERPOWERED (MAYBE KONIVING?)

I don't believe that first statement of yours one bit, given how long ECM have been in the game and how many matches so far we've seen between non ECM and ECM groups.

i mean don't get me wrong, it doesn't mean the non ECM equipped group can't win... but on average out of every 10 match with that kind of composition, i most certainly will bet on the ECM group unless their mechwarriors are pretty crap.

and the MG part?

no really... the only reason you feel that way on a spider with 4 MG, is that you don't have that much choice and that gives you the feeling that you did SOMETHING with it.

Unlike other weapons, that actually do have SOMETHING useful worth the cost... Large laser for example "i mean, large lasers have less damage per tonnage and heat compared to the other lasers, overall the bigger the weapon the less tonnage and crit slot efficient it is, but that doesn't mean its not worth using"

Let's take a look at that:

Spoiler

LL for example does 9 damage over 1 second at 450m effective range with 900m max producing 7 heat, it cost 2 slot and weigh 5 ton.

pound per pound if you got 1 energy slot, the weapon does GREAT effect for it's cost since these days with map range being more diverse it's longer reach which is twice that of the workhorse medium laser which does 5 damage over 1 second at 270m effective range with 540m max range producing 4 heat costing 1 slot and 1 ton, overall gives the LL great value since it does nearly full damage at the distance in which ML can do almost none if not none at all.

don't get me wrong, of course... efficiency wise if you have the energy hardpoint to spare and you intend to built a general purpose infighter... the medium laser is nearly impossible to beat in raw damage and heat efficiency for a laser which is the reason why it's heavily used (when in doubt can't go wrong with ML).

but the LL beats it handily when it comes to longer effective range and when you have shortage of energy hardpoint.

Hence why you see heavy and assault mechs packing large amount of LL (they generally prefer to fight outside short range anyway where they have trouble with tracking and they need something with longer range since if they only have short effective range...the fights will be over by the time they can inflict effective damage at their speed).

What about MG? MG? dps? in the same sentence???

Spoiler

uhhh... let me do the math here, MG does 0.4 dps in THEORY (in practice we've tested on weapon grounds and in combat that it does not even do this in full) 4 MG equates to maximum of 1.6 dps assuming it works as it should be and assuming ALL rounds hitting the intended target.

a small laser has 1dps... that's with ONE small laser... with 0 ammo and no risk of ammo explosion. MG and dps, don't belong together... no really... the Table Top MG would be... but not MWO MG.

after the buff they are SUPPOSED to be a crit seeker weapon that should effectively strip the equipment and weapons etc off the internals...

problem is, in practice the weapon itself contributes effectively almost none to stripping the armor that covers the mech in the first place, and to further compound the problem... it is often just as fast to KILL the stripped naked parts with other weapons than it is to strip the weapon only from that part.

We ARE using actual results to judge them, we TRIED to get them to work.. and the overall results is that the weapon is really not worth it unless if you seriously have absolutely no other choice to mount... hence why almost no one ever uses MG, except of course the spider with the 4 ballistic slot since it doesn't have much other options.

If something does not worth it's weight and cost in slot? we don't use them, simple as that...
"does something really have to be "worth its weight and slots"th taking a long??"

simple answer? Yes, which should be rather obvious i think given that this is a multiplayer game where you have over a dozen ppl trying to kill each other, if something is not worth it's weight and slot then no one wants to carry it since that gets them killed.

note that this doesn't apply if there is NOTHING else that can be mounted on it that will give a better return of course, ie: cosmetic things like cockpit items etc..

More fun facts: want to know just how much the damage output of MG are effectively in practice? Really simple, there is a STAT page in your own mechwarrior profile and it tells you the breakdown of all the weapons you have used in the game...

i'll give you mine as an example: MACHINE GUN 11,504 rounds hit 376 damage total
over 11 thousand bullets out of the MG over the course of my MWO gameplay time total with them and it gave a whopping total damage less than i do in a single match with just 4 medium laser....

Edited by Melcyna, 09 May 2013 - 04:14 AM.

[Just wanna play]

sure the ecm team might win, still you cant prove its BECAUSE they had ecm, both sides have at least 1 light with ecm usually, but those often die pretty fast

dude when explaining the large laserz efficiency, aside from the range advantage that i never talked about considering the laser was an example and its only with energy weapon when bigger weapon means bettter range, YOU PROVED MY POINT, ll (and bigger weapons in particular)are only best when want to get the most out of each hard point (of course bigger guns are more hard point efficient) and have the tonnage to spare, aside from energy weapon range differences, 2 slightly smaller weapons are always better then 1 bigger one
2 medium>1large
2 ac/10>ac/20
2 lrm 5>lrm10

well if your in a light dont expect yourself to be the one stripping the armor,dude you must suck with mgs, koniving has a screen pic of round where he did 400 dmg with 4 mgs and 4 flamers (those dont stack though so....) keep in mind against internals it does 7dps (once destroying an engine kills a mech, you will change your mind about destroying the body part being faster then destroying internal equipment, at least on bigger mechs), and that REALLY contributes to your total damage done at the end of a match if you play it right, i also have personally done 170dmg in a match with the trial raven using only 2 mgs, stalker with out leg armor and clearly keeping lrm ammo in legs =

and of course smaller weapons will do less damage per bullet, its all about what the bullet does its damage to, not how much it does (why else would things like small pulse laserz exist, THEY ROCK!)

and its 1.6 dps with out heat so.................

[Just wanna play]

i dont even know if mgs damage armor, so maybe you shouldnt be using your mg stats to prove your point