215 replies to this topic

[Samuikaze]

I'm curious to what you lot here think might happen as the future of this game unfolds? Let me explain, as someone who spent about 9-10 years in the Eve Online community, I'm just wondering what you all think might be the out come when the likes of griefer groups begin arriving in full force into this game/community, [hint: the likes of Goonswarm and such].

Do you think the RP/Story side of the gaming will fall away to become nothing more than a griefing planet capture trawl with no meaning, nothing less than that of some meta-gamers E-strap-on? Or do you think the BT story line and player base will hold together and allow the game to be played in a way that actually stays close to the BT universe?

There was a good RP story and following in the Eve universe once, long long ago, but this was blown to pieces by the likes of griefers arriving and the likes that had no interest in the storyline and sort only to abuse the Eve game mechanic by any means possible. There is no real story in Eve any more, it is merely about running multiple toons, urber kills, blobbing, scamming and generally abusing/exploiting the game as much as possible until caught.

Will this place survive such an influx? Is the game mechanic going to be designed in such a way that you can't play the game without in some way holding to the story line? My puzzlement and question is, is the BT following bigger/greater than the greifers and game/story spoilers out there or is it just doomed to be broken as the game unfolds?

I know everyone is caught up in the excitement and the moment [as am I] but what do you lot think? Have you even given it a thought? I know for myself, I've waited 10 years for this game to be made, it just burns a tad to think it could end up like a grief-hole like what Eve has become.

Your thoughts people?

Edited by Samuikaze, 01 August 2012 - 12:52 PM.

[Otto Cannon]

Sounds like historical events won't be under player control, so player groups will only have a limited impact unlike in Eve.

[Joe Mallad]

I think with Eve its just gotten to the point that its creators have said forget it and dont do very much in the way of keeping the game going correctly and with meaning. I do believe that the fan base here and the Dev team will not let it get to that point that the game is run by hoards of greifers. The fan base here and the Dev team care way to strongly about this franchise.

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 01 August 2012 - 12:38 PM.

[Kilmannan]

Eve runs on the basis that its story is organic and dynamic and the players make it.

It's the ultimate goal of any MMO to achieve this, but unfortunately, due to the sheer nature of it, not every player will be exposed to the story if they're not in that Corp or group of players involved in making it happen.

It's a Catch 22.

Also, once any game hits mainstream audience, you'll inevitably lose the RP aspects of it apart from a core trust. Eventually that might erode away under the sheer weight of players that join simply to blow stuff up. There's very little you can do about it apart from isolate yourself from those that aren't playing in the spirit of the game.

It'll be interesting to see it develop though, that's for sure.

[Samuikaze]

Otto Cannon, on 01 August 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

Sounds like historical events won't be under player control, so player groups will only have a limited impact unlike in Eve.

That's actually good to hear, thank you.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Won't there be multiple servers?

[NoirWolf]

God Goonswarm deserves to burn in hell... at least their top brass deserves to.. mind you it's not the 0.0 lollerstomping that's annoying, more the general amount of griefing they do on both economic as well as physical battlefields... they've crashed markets 2-3 times in the last year alone.

As for MW:O... yeah if Goonfleet/Dreddit shift their activities onto here and the Metagame isn't too restrictive in terms of battles per turn...then there will be allot of 4chan pics cropping up in the inner sphere x.x.

Lukoi, on 01 August 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

Won't there be multiple servers?

Regional (EU,NA, asian and possibly RU) probably, sharded regional servers...unlikely.

Edited by NoirWolf, 01 August 2012 - 01:42 PM.

[Rushyo]

Quote

Eve runs on the basis that its story is organic and dynamic and the players make it.

It's the ultimate goal of any MMO to achieve this, but unfortunately, due to the sheer nature of it, not every player will be exposed to the story if they're not in that Corp or group of players involved in making it happen.

I don't think it is. I'd hate to see a player-led story arch for MWO. Other big names in MMOs don't feel the need to do this. It's very much limited to certain games.

[Fugu]

I don't think that the players can actually alter the history entirely.

Also, you have to keep in mind that unlike in Eve you can't become a giant indestructable blob controling economics and send in armies that will crush everything. A match will be 16 vs. 16 there is simply no way to come with a force that can't be destroyed because it's too huge. You want to take over a planet? It'll be a 16 vs. 16 fight, no matter how many members you have or how much money you have and you certainly can't win all of them.

[light487]

EVE is also on a truly massive, massive scale.. 10's of 1000's of players playing in the same universe at the same time. At launch the devs of MWO expect to have 12v12 matches.. so the scale of griefing could potentially be the same but split over many, many matches. I would hope that this would make it a bit more manageable. What I am saying is that it's a different fish pond with different fish swimming in it.

[Fl3tcher]

The reason the goons effected Eve so much was purely because of the size and complexity of the game. Eve allowed these groups to gather enough power and influence to effect the entire game universe.

From what I've read, even in the most fanciful of forum users posts, there is no indication that MW:O will even be 1/10th as complex as Eve (which is no bad thing). Personally, I can't see how it could be. MW:Os story has already been written, the game as we're going to play it is set in what is now Battletech history. Eves' story is as we speak still being written by the players.

[Samuikaze]

Fugu, on 01 August 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

I don't think that the players can actually alter the history entirely.

Also, you have to keep in mind that unlike in Eve you can't become a giant indestructable blob controling economics and send in armies that will crush everything. A match will be 16 vs. 16 there is simply no way to come with a force that can't be destroyed because it's too huge. You want to take over a planet? It'll be a 16 vs. 16 fight, no matter how many members you have or how much money you have and you certainly can't win all of them.

I hear you, still with all the meta-gaming these griefers like to get up to what's the betting there will be a hell of a load of main unit infiltrations going on. The moment a winning unit has a major battle for a resource [planet], that will be the time you'll find those PPC's and Gauss's hitting you in the back from your so called wing men. It's "all" about meta-gaming from their, multiple accounts etc etc, doing what ever it takes to win.

Also, the game is using C-Bills as currency, that currency will dictate the mechs your team can field and repair. Griefers will look for every single exploit and/or trick in the book to give themselves the advantage. They don't care about the game mechanics, they don't care about your game or it running smoothly,

it is all about destroying it and using it for a mean to their own ends. To be able to say, "Look we broke their toys and now the nubs are all crying about it! lulz! Suckers!" Messing things up for others is where their get their enjoyment. That and holding on to any kind of power the can give themselves. That is the mentality that is dominant in Eve nowadays and thus it is my concern of it being repeated here.

Edited by Samuikaze, 01 August 2012 - 03:42 PM.

[Samuikaze]

Interestingly enough, it seems someone has already hit this topic, someone pointed me to a podcast, the guys from "No Guts No Galaxy". A brilliant podcast, all credit and respect to those guys. They interviewed Mittani from Eve on the aims of the Goons in MWO, it made for a very interesting listen, I'd suggest you all go listen to it if you haven't already, ( then sign up to their podcast. ) Episode #36

Edited by Samuikaze, 02 August 2012 - 08:29 AM.

[Insidious Johnson]

I wouldn't worry about griefing, unless it is coming from the Dev's. That's Paul's turf. I pity the Goon who tries to take the reins from him. Even John Shaft envies his banhammer. I hope they try it upon release. They'll get reported all they way to the poor house and be driving Flintstones mechs.

[Bodha]

my impression is that player's will not be able to affect the canon story at all or possibly only in very limited ways.

I'm concerned though that more hasn't come out about community warfare. I really want to know more about it so my group of friends and I can decide what role we will play.

[Raishi Kytori]

Before I say anything, I haven't had the chance to listen to the above linked interview about Goonswarm's intentions here yet.

The thing is, EVE is designed to allow players to do whatever they want, even massive-scale griefing. The developers have several times congratulated Goonswarm and the others for finding ways to have a huge effect on the game and take control. I'm don't generally like griefers at all, but the simple fact is, in the case of EVE, they -are- playing within the spirit of the game; they're essentially just "the bad guys," instead of just having NPCs play that role.

The devs here aren't designing MWO with the same goals as EVE; it definitely has a stricter, more structured framework and concept. In theory, it should be far less possible to break or take over the game.

I can't stand griefing, I have a very strong dislike for anyone that goes out of their way to make anyone else miserable, and I tend to avoid any group like the SA goons like the plague. I certainly hope no one, whether them or anyone else, finds ways to cheat or abuse unintentional loopholes to ruin the game, and I hope the developers find good waysto keep that from happening. However...If the game, by design, does end leaving room for creative manuevering and power grabs, then by all means, I'll welcome the Goonswarm or anyone else to try for it! Just as long as it's within the designs of the game. I'd love to have someone to put up a good, strong, challenging fight and give the rest of us someone to really work again. "Real" game villians are so much more fun than an NPC, after all!

Edited by Raishi Kytori, 02 August 2012 - 06:22 AM.

[Savin]

I would recommend that everyone get their unit staff officers to listen to the mentioned podcast to find out what Goonswarm has in store for MW Online.

[Samuikaze]

Raishi Kytori, on 02 August 2012 - 06:21 AM, said:

Before I say anything, I haven't had the chance to listen to the above linked interview about Goonswarm's intentions here yet.

The thing is, EVE is designed to allow players to do whatever they want, even massive-scale griefing. The developers have several times congratulated Goonswarm and the others for finding ways to have a huge effect on the game and take control. I'm don't generally like griefers at all, but the simple fact is, in the case of EVE, they -are- playing within the spirit of the game; they're essentially just "the bad guys," instead of just having NPCs play that role.

The devs here aren't designing MWO with the same goals as EVE; it definitely has a stricter, more structured framework and concept. In theory, it should be far less possible to break or take over the game.

I can't stand griefing, I have a very strong dislike for anyone that goes out of their way to make anyone else miserable, and I tend to avoid any group like the SA goons like the plague. I certainly hope no one, whether them or anyone else, finds ways to cheat or abuse unintentional loopholes to ruin the game, and I hope the developers find good waysto keep that from happening. However...If the game, by design, does end leaving room for creative manuevering and power grabs, then by all means, I'll welcome the Goonswarm or anyone else to try for it! Just as long as it's within the designs of the game. I'd love to have someone to put up a good, strong, challenging fight and give the rest of us someone to really work again. "Real" game villians are so much more fun than an NPC, after all!

Yes, I'd agree with that in general but here's the thing, when you look at the numbers that the likes of Goons are able to field can you imagine once the game mechanic is understood these lot won't flood the game to capitalize on it, utterly? That maybe within the game mechanics, it maybe legal but it will have blown the game and destroyed it for all the other members of small units out there that can't field 24/7 coverage over multiple planets.

I'm all up for a good fight and I'd guess many here are, but being able to abuse a mechanic through sheer weight of numbers hardly makes for a good game that so many wish to get involved in. I suppose a cap on numbers within a unit or house could balance things a tad and make it a more even playing field but how something like that would work or be designed who knows?

Yes, "real" game villains are good but at the cost of utterly destroying the BT story line and play style being put forward by the game designers here? I suppose we will just have to wait and see what the planet capture mechanic and currency mechanic is like. Griefers like Goons and others from the Eve universe [that will be joining] have had years of digging and picking loop holes in gaming mechanics like this, if theirs anything ... they will find and abuse it, that is fact.

The question is will other smaller groups be looking to do this? Doubtful. Many of the those who've followed this game for so long have a primary active interest in the BT universe, not griefing as their core interest. That's a big difference in style of play.

Edited by Samuikaze, 02 August 2012 - 08:31 AM.

[Nakuru]

You also have to keep in mind that the two games are VERY different. In MWO, it's a few lances vs a few lances. You don't have massive fleets of thousands of ships duking it out. The battles are kept on a deliberately small scale. There will be no overwhelming player forces to overcome.

EVE, on the other hand, takes a rather hands-off approach to how players handle the game and lets them do just about anything they want. The difference in scale of player control and allowed unit sizes mitigates how griefers could be able to affect the game. It doesn't mean it's not possible, it just means that it's much more difficult to do, and they'd have to think of new ways to do it.

[Tyzh]

You're EVE related worries are unfounded. The games are not particularly comparable. It's like saying you got sick from wine once, and are now worried water has alcohol in it.