483 replies to this topic

[Raghnall]

Well go ahead and be depressed, but you know, they have only shown a handful of mechs. Like four or five? Wait and see what is available.

Personally, I am fine with the look of the mechs as long as they behave very differently from anime mechs. You are aware, that Mechwarrior falls underneath battletech, and battletech was inspired by a certain anime?

I don't want to see Armored core 5 boosting or movement unfitting for a 85 ton war machine. I want mass. I want crunching footsteps. I want cars to shake when I walk bye and infantry to scatter when I am still 2 miles out... just from my footfalls. As long as they hold true to that, and perhaps implement a use for mechs with hands (punching or picking up objects?) then I am fine.

[azoth green]

i know guys but u know what mechs no way to get out of it all mechs dont look alittle but alot of mechs at just robots hell look at tranformers does anyone seen the old school ones they all look alittle so to me but if u remenber guys there was a law suit over the wasp lam thats y the game was not maked for so long and u know i want good old friend stalker tho the first time i used it i alpht striked on a 3025 i was very young at the time it blowed up very good

[osito]

you alpha striked with a stalker......ouch. thats a whole lotta pain for both your target and for you.

[Volkite]

So. How much of a shitstorm is this Flashman, drawn on /tg/ last night, going to cause?
I normally hate people who say this, but, if you who would complain about the work of Flyingdebris are so much more in tune with what's realistic in a mech-based game then go ahead and make your own.

Flyingdebris's work has uplifted the old 3025 'mechs from the piles of garbage they once were into a glorious adaptation. Draw better than him and make the old things better. If you can or could, then you can say his work is bad, and only then.

'Mechs never had hands in MW2 & 3?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAA
Effing Hand actuators, how do they work?
They don't in those old games, as before mentioned. But I'm sure I remember them being present.

The old designs of the Inner Sphere had hands because the 'mechs were meant to be a more versatile platform than a track or wheel or hoverpod vehicle. Also something briefly mentioned in the 3075TRO is the simple concept of Toteming. Where a 'mech would be crafted to represent something within its own design that reflected the namesake.
Because the most advanced vehicles that are hard to reproduce (circa 3025, yes they were) and are given to elite specialist pilots were NOTHING special.

Centurion's plume not only houses a sensor array, but gives a distinct and (for boxy bipeds made of metal, anyway) a regal silhouette. The shoulder ridge only serves to protect that plume a little from the side, but it can be assumed that a little bit of metal can be folded up in that shape for decorative purposes that furthers the Centurion's distinctness. The 'shield' is an armour baffle and ablative plate as well as a lot of the forearm's protection and a counter-weight to the AC10 in the other arm. The hand because why not? When the AC10 is in effective range, it's fairly close. If the Medium Lasers are in effective range, it's go time. You may as well try and ram a girder into the enemy at the same time.

From the beginning, when you first see the Centurion in MW2 Mercs, it was described as being progressively more powerful as you closed in, wouldn't a hand capable of gripping other weapons be a good deterrent to upstarts such as the hatchetman?

Why in the hell must we nibble-kibble over a recent re-imagining of an old ****** design?
One that is amazing, might I add? Or do you prefer the boxy pieces of gossa from the old times?
Or is the Timberwolf, with the B-5--EDIT B29 cockpit, the pinnacle of design to you?
Or the Top-heavy Masakari, or the lopsided and fragile Grizzly, or the arm-dependant Dire wolf?
Or did you all just join this site expecting robot wars re-enactments on a grander scale?

Edited by Merovigian, 30 January 2012 - 09:40 AM.

[Mchawkeye]

Ravn, on 29 January 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

I am starting to worry about the mech release rate. Approximately 1 month and the kickoff is 6-8 months away. MW with only 14 mech models will not be fabulous.

There is another thread for this, if you are interested. most seem to think that a few well done mechs is better than a lot of half done mechs. That, and just because we have only seen one a month does not mean they are only producing one a month...

Merovigian, on 30 January 2012 - 12:16 AM, said:

Or is the Timberwolf, with the B52 cockpit, the pinnacle of design to you?

I always thought it was more like a B-29...but that could just be me...

Edited by Mchawkeye, 30 January 2012 - 12:34 AM.

[Omigir]

Merovigian, on 30 January 2012 - 12:16 AM, said:

He has a very good point. I would like to see some one try and do the Centruion better.

and 'It looks good in my head but I dont have the abuility to draw what I see' is not acceptible. What FD drew, is what some one on the development team saw in their head otherwise they would not have let him use it. Keep in mind, there is a man on the Dev team who is a BTU expert. And FD himself is a MW fan. Just becuase you dont like it, does not mean it isnt good.

[Tadakuma]

Bigamo, on 27 January 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

honestly, this tread is DEPRESSING!

Guys need to figure out one thing... what made Battletech GREAT was the anime like mechs. as soon as they get out battletech stoped being the huge sucess it were.

And i want my phoenix hawk with its proper hands and its proper DEATH FROM ABOVE!!!

PS: cmom, even a grasshoper can be fine!

Anime mecha >>> Chicken

PS: And the TT rule of get broken mech menbers to hit things is just TOO MUCH FUN!

I'm going to disagree on this. The hallmark of FASA IPs was that they all had detailed and well though universe.

What made battle tech great was that writers, like Michael Stackpole was the lead writer, put a lot of work into making the political and strategic part of the universe make sense.

The basic battle tech tabletop & RPG rules all clunky highly unintuitive systems, people played the game in spite of this.

In regards to the hands thing, get over it. Some mechs have hands and it's been that way for 28 years, if you can't respect the IP enough to deal with then this isn't the game for you.

[Mechteric]

Ravn, on 29 January 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

I am starting to worry about the mech release rate. Approximately 1 month and the kickoff is 6-8 months away. MW with only 14 mech models will not be fabulous.

Mechwarrior 2 (not counting Mercs) and 3 both had a similar count when they were released. And due to the nature of this game, we could maybe even see one new mech every month! What makes a great mechwarrior game isn't the numbers, its the action!

Another fun fact, the original mechwarrior only had 8 mechs.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 30 January 2012 - 07:49 AM.

[Alex Wolfe]

Paladin1, on 27 January 2012 - 11:09 AM, said:

No, this is the WSP-105 Wasp LAM.





This, on the other hand, is the STG-A5 Stinger LAM.



Know your enemies gentlemen.

"Lots of dorky mechs and we didn't even get into the horribly lame Land Air Mechs that were ripped directly out of Robotech, made no sense in Battletech, and were basically jet fighters with legs and arms dangling off the bottom. There was lots of great stuff though."

- Zack Parsons of somethingawful, telling it how it is.

The only thing more depressing than the Unseen legal mess, is that they had to pick up those as well.

Also, disagreeing with the OP. The Centurion for example was a staple of Mechcommander (an amazing game), and it's always had the "mohawk". The redesigns so far make them look like war machines way more than before. The original arts were hit-or-miss, often looked like goofy bunches of boxes, or simply slightly retouched anime robots, these recent redesigns are more akin to multi-ton walking tanks the games made us used to.

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 30 January 2012 - 07:50 AM.

[Volkite]

And for fun.

Note that this is not my actual sentiment. I love improved art.
Good Lord. Imagine Warhammer 40K if it didn't improve its art. Shudder!

Edited by Merovigian, 30 January 2012 - 08:01 AM.

[Spot]

I have to say i dislike anime about as much as i dislike my Adder being beaten to death with its own leg by an Atlas but it may happen. But instead of hateing on the new mechs just get a good old Urban mech, now that can be depressing. but i do personaly perfer to have a weapon on each arm.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

only thing I find 'off' about that flashman redesign is again FD's obsession with slim-down hips,
otherwise that Flashman look is absolutely amazing - why? because it retains the essence
of the flashman

the arms the same basic shapes: cylinder shoulders, no upper arm, long lower arms,
legs are acutally an improvement; I never understood how the original Flashman legs were supposed to work
torso's been reworked from lightbulb to something more streamlined.

that's what makes this redesign and the others work, the Centurion redesign was way too radical. Also I'm curious to see
if FD shoves all 'heads' into the torso cause that would make me frown and sorta ruin the designs. Imagine the commando
with head shoved into torso...the victor...black knight...highlander...etc <shudder>

[Damocles]

Aaron DeChavilier, on 30 January 2012 - 08:27 AM, said:

only thing I find 'off' about that flashman redesign is again FD's obsession with slim-down hips,

This has been my main quibble also

and I was also trying to envision a Commando without a head....

[Aaron DeChavilier]

Damocles, on 30 January 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

This has been my main quibble also

and I was also trying to envision a Commando without a head....

it hurts, doesn't it? D:
was tempted to take the TRO3050 art and cram heads into torso, but felt that would have been overkill on my point

[Volkite]

Well, for one, I don't really like the old method of doing the hips on most of the 3025 mechs.
The Hunchback, for instance, with its legs sticking out 3/4 of the distance from earth to the sun to the sides. UNDER the waist.
It makes me wonder how the servos didn't snap under pressure and friction.
Also, spatial awareness. There needs to be room for the arms to fall to rest, IMO. Just so it doesn't clank against iself when all limp and shut-down.

Sure, the Flashman didn't have that issue, but looking at the comparative pic? It looks almost like the hips are wider on the FD one (if that is FD's work).
And at least with one artist for the 'mechs we won't have the issue with multiple different aesthetics as to how they're drawn.
By that I mean, the boxy line art mingling with cartoony mixed up amongst detailed and schematic... Ugh.
We all know what kind of tropes to expect in the design phase.
I like that.
Not to discount your opinions.

Edited by Merovigian, 30 January 2012 - 09:36 AM.

[VEDRFOLNIR]

Merovigian, on 30 January 2012 - 12:16 AM, said:

Wow... that re-design is about the only way I'd pilot a Flashman. Always thought the original looked ridiculous... my opinion of course.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

VEDRFOLNIR, on 30 January 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:

Wow... that re-design is about the only way I'd pilot a Flashman. Always thought the original looked ridiculous... my opinion of course.

absolutely agree, I've maintained that not all original art is good either; but to blankly state that all new art is good no matter what is just a dangerous :/
that's how things like Dark Age happen (lol)

and I think it's great that everyone gets to voice their opinions, its part of anything just as much as sports fans bemoan player trades, coach plans etc
now if we got to complaining about Srin Odessa firing her manager because of him getting bad matches, well thats even better I for one think that she was bit rash seeing as how he is able to get her some decent hardware for matches at least.

Edited by Aaron DeChavilier, 30 January 2012 - 09:12 AM.

[Aegis Kleais]

hoax, on 27 January 2012 - 01:15 PM, said:

Hey, even genetically bred, super soldiers can't always get it right

Yeah. We just PILOT the things! It's not like we DESIGN them!

[Aegis Kleais]

VEDRFOLNIR, on 30 January 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:

Wow... that re-design is about the only way I'd pilot a Flashman. Always thought the original looked ridiculous... my opinion of course.

I prefer the art on the left, oh, about a BAJILLION-fold over that on the right. Much more mechanical, rigid and war machine-esque, IMO.

[Solis Obscuri]

Merovigian, on 30 January 2012 - 12:16 AM, said:

So. How much of a shitstorm is this Flashman, drawn on /tg/ last night, going to cause?
I normally hate people who say this, but, if you who would complain about the work of Flyingdebris are so much more in tune with what's realistic in a mech-based game then go ahead and make your own.

I always liked the old "Flashbulb" Flashman design, but I wouldn't turn up my nose at the new one, either.

I question what you term as "realistic", though. The Flashman (which I always liked) and the Urbie (which I wasn't so fond of) both were 'mechs I could see as highly beleivable designs - each was a simple armored can on legs with a fusion reactor inside and guns attached to the sides. I'm don't how shaping a 'mechs torso more like a football player in pads really makes it a more "realistic" military design, unless you're sole reference for armed robots are three feature-length GM commercials made in the last five years...

Merovigian, on 30 January 2012 - 07:47 AM, said:

And for fun.

That is funny. Truly the Devil's work!!!!

Aaron DeChavilier, on 30 January 2012 - 08:27 AM, said:

only thing I find 'off' about that flashman redesign is again FD's obsession with slim-down hips,
otherwise that Flashman look is absolutely amazing - why? because it retains the essence
of the flashman

the arms the same basic shapes: cylinder shoulders, no upper arm, long lower arms,
legs are acutally an improvement; I never understood how the original Flashman legs were supposed to work
torso's been reworked from lightbulb to something more streamlined.

I wouldn't even say the hips are narrower, and if anything they're a lot wider on the Centurion. It's the waist that's been brought in to create a more muscular, masculine figure. Same as the Centurion.

Aaron DeChavilier, on 30 January 2012 - 08:27 AM, said:

that's what makes this redesign and the others work, the Centurion redesign was way too radical. Also I'm curious to see
if FD shoves all 'heads' into the torso cause that would make me frown and sorta ruin the designs. Imagine the commando
with head shoved into torso...the victor...black knight...highlander...etc <shudder>

Well, the Hunchback still has a distinct head. I wouldn't get too worried.