218 replies to this topic

[statler]

blindprophet, on 05 February 2012 - 02:38 PM, said:

Oh a note on your 'just inventory management and politics' idea there being enough to keep people immersed...you're wrong. If that was all the 'rpg' elements the game employed your playerbase would in short order end up being a subsection of the battletech crowd...new people would occasionaly filter in and out, but its not going to grow much if at all. And you'll end up with a unprofitable game...

this game had 4 titles with expansions that all did so well over time that people are still upset that new versions havent been available. these forums, mektek, mwll are all huge proof of this. inventory management and so much less faction option/management was more than enough for these games. sure those games needed tweeks, but reinventing the system for the sake of copying the current popular games is not a guarantee of bringing in new players. it might just alienate a good portion, and not compete well for new players with the games it is imitating .

you want game examples...socom is a perfect one...years of well selling titles and expansions and a very loyal fan base that basically played it until the next one came out. that community was waiting for the last two version with much anticipation. a beta came out that was basically a rip of several of the popular fps updates at the time....it was too far from the socom feel....sales were not great and player base left it flat. hell even the mighty halo seemed to have the player base fall off crazy quick after release, when usually this franchise also keeps players off and on until the next version. they even released a redo of the early halo because reach strayed too far from the player base, just to try gear more towards taking as many player bases as possible.

sure socom 4 probably sold okay, halo reach even very well, just as this one will make some profit no matter what you do. anything with socom or halo or mechwarrior on it will bring in money just for the memories and hope. the goal is to keep the player base around so crazy long that hype builds, and money keeps rolling into the franchise...so we get more of it. gameplay is what builds the long term, we both agree, and how much of the devs time has been spent on this additional layer instead?

whatever, i'll try to stop answering your replies, and my point and others are on this and other posts already. its not like we are going to change anyone's minds about any of this. especially since the devs have apparently been planning these rather huge changes to a long standing franchise, and are committed to them, without much discussion from these forums.

Edited by statler, 05 February 2012 - 06:19 PM.

[Strum Wealh]

Geist Null, on 05 February 2012 - 05:05 PM, said:

the great houses have capital ships. its all thru the lore. so theres no issue of commanders working for a great house being able to call in orbital cannons to bear on an objective for a special occasion. some merc units (like the blue star irregulars) have them too. i highly doubt every unit, every mission is going to have access to all forms of support.

Ummm...

Quote

The first designated WarShips in the sense of jump-capable combat vessels were deployed by the Terran Alliance. At the height of the Star League, fleets of thousands of these behemoths roamed the stars, enforcing the League's will. The Succession Wars and subsequent decline into Lostech left no WarShips operative in the Inner Sphere. The last WarShips in the Inner Sphere were believed destroyed during the Second Succession War, all others having fallen prey to combat losses, attrition and maintenance shortfalls save for a number of non-salvageable derelicts and a small hidden fleet secretly maintained by ComStar. Up until the beginning of the Clan Invasion in 3049 they were thought to be essentially extinct.

-----

Following the Clan invasion and the rediscovery of lost technologies, WarShip construction restarted in the Inner Sphere. In October 3056, ComStar's First Circuit decided to allow the sale of transit drives for WarShips (which only the ComStar-controlled Rolls-Royce factories on Terra could produce at the time) to the Draconis Combine and the Federated Commonwealth, while aid from the fanatical ComStar splinter group Word of Blake located drives from derelict ships that the Free Worlds League and Capellan Confederation could recondition and return to a functioning status. Further recovery of lost technology has since enabled most greater powers in the Inner Sphere to field operational WarShips, but only the most industrious of Successor States can construct more than one at a time because of their extreme costs.

Also...

Quote

Kept hidden from the Successor States along with the Com Guards for centuries, the ComStar WarShip Fleet was the largest of any post-Star League Inner Sphere power prior to its destruction during the Jihad.

-----


Along with the capture of Terra as part of Operation Silver Shield, a large volume of former SLDF material was captured and mothballed by the newly formed organization. Included in this was a large number of battered and shattered SLDF WarShips in the Sol system, while the Order advised the various House Lords that those left were irretrievably lost, they set about preserving and repairing the most promising.

With the formation of the ComStar Guards and Milita this WarShip fleet was also activated and new ships such as the Dante and Faslane classes also created, but the extreme secrecy required eventually resulted in a freeze on expansion of the fleet. While a token defense force was hidden in the Terran system, the bulk was hidden in the uninhabited Luyten 68-28 and Ross 248 systems.

Even with the public unveiling of the Com Guards, the Blessed Order held back on revealing how powerful they really were and fleet remained in hiding. This changed with the Clan Invasion and the arrival of Clan WarShip fleets, though by mutual agreement by Anastasius Focht and Ulric Kerensky WarShip combat was avoided during the Battle of Tukayyid.

Canonically, the Successor States don't/shouldn't have any WarShips in 3049, as they were destroyed during the Second Succession War (2830-2864), the existence of an IS WarShip fleet wasn't general knowledge until the Clan Invasion, and the Successor States couldn't couldn't even build the interplanetary drive systems needed to make maneuvering WarShips possible until after 3056 (with the FedCom and the Combine buying them from ComStar, and the Confederation and the FWL getting salvage help and tech support from the WoB).

Granted, that could be one of the changes for the sake of gameplay that PGI mentioned they'd be making.
Otherwise... where are these WarShips coming from, again?


On a side note, the table in the OP does say "naval bombardment" rather than "orbital bombardment", so perhaps it is a reference to blue-water naval artillery rather than attacks by DropShips and/or WarShips (the latter of which canonically won't exist for the majority of the IS for the better part of a decade)...?

[corsair]

the hole skill tree idea is cool it adds a bit of rpg element to the game but will i have multiple pilots or do i get just one, cos i dont want to be left playing only one role the entire time.

[FinnMcKool]

It would be nice if learning stuff like how to drive your mech, torso swings aiming, was part of the game, but its assumed that you can pilot the mech, do DFA and aim perfectly before you play the game , so of course the software of the game must compensate, make you a little worse so that your learning how to do these things are SIMULATED , I guess thats what gos for a simulation game these days, and when you have max out your points ,you wont have to aim anymore you will just hit the target, driving the mech will consist of "on" and "off" or???
Where is this going? sorry but all this talk of "think of it as learning" sorry but that should be part of the "SIM" , flight sims are not just sit down and your a perfect flyer, also they are not "play for a long time" and your a perfect flyer.

from what I see this is a fairly complex game, just the DEVs need a way to keep us interested, and maybe more importantly, a way to pay the bills , make a little cash.

Im all for rewarding Hard work (they deserve something just for putting up with me ) but keeping Mechwarrior fans interested is EZ. maybe they dont know it yet, All we need is a big map to fight for, and mechs to fight in. The grinding (oh lets be like the other guys) isnt what will keep us here (maybe drive us away) we arnt the kids that grew up playing the consoles, we grew up a long time ago,Im sorry but IMHO those have been dumbed down, for the week minded.
We want a little more serious game, One that we will make of it ourselves. Have you looked at some of the Clans already forming, already practicing, already learning to play as teams, and the Frackin game aint even out yet, We dont need the reward system of the Grind game model. we get Rewarded by winning or even just playing for the big universe map.

As for the game to make money I dont care , This isnt the Soviet Union.(yet)
If you work hard and do a good job you should be rewarded, and I would be a thief (and so would anybody) if I thought you should just give it away to me, so make a good game, and make me pay for it .

Edited by FinnMcKool, 05 February 2012 - 09:33 PM.

[TunaR]

So how about that beta?

[Lima Zulu]

Strum Wealh, on 05 February 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:

On a side note, the table in the OP does say "naval bombardment" rather than "orbital bombardment", so perhaps it is a reference to blue-water naval artillery rather than attacks by DropShips and/or WarShips (the latter of which canonically won't exist for the majority of the IS for the better part of a decade)...?

Well, that could be right to, but I've posted an exact question about it to the q/a4 topic, so let's wait if devs would give us more specific info.

[Svaje]

I belive you have the difference between scout- / defender- detections right. The scout needs range, detail-resolution and ability to send the info back. The defender needs to know if an unspecified unit is behind the corner. What kind of unit and its status is his scout-budys job to tell him.

I like the words "weapon convergence time" It is reasonable to think that a mech swings its weapons around a bit when it moves and then need some time to get them on target again.

Keep up the good work !

Edited by Svaje, 05 February 2012 - 11:54 PM.

[Dihm]

Don't forget that DropShips count as "naval" assets, doesn't have to be warships doing orbital bombardments.

Edited by Dihm, 06 February 2012 - 05:53 AM.

[HAMMERHEART]

great !! DFA and charging ? waouww ...

cannot wait to test it ....

[Dragorath]

DarkTreader, on 04 February 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

IIRC, Paul said earlier that mechs with no JJ will have that tier removed/replaced/something done to it, presumably because... well, knowing how to work JJs on a 'Mech that doesn't have them? Seems kinda pointless.

Thanks about AMS.

Well, I got this point about the jump jets that if a Mech doesn't have I don't have to learn it, I got it the way that they skip it in this Mechs OR replace it with something else. It was more the point that IF they skip it it would be easier for the rest to go elite and would maybe be a disatvantage for the Mech pilots with jjs. even if the Mechs are more flexible to different situations.
But what would you add instead? Charging? Higher damage for weapons? or just increase the points for the other skills?

[BarHaid]

Well, you're learning how to use equipment that other pilots aren't. Makes sense that it'll take you longer to get to "elite" status. But you've also got more choices of mechs. I'd rather not have to make a choice of learning jumpjets, but not getting charging skill (for instance). Take a supposed elite pilot that doesn't know how to use jumpjets and stick them in a jumper, and they become just a commoner.

[Foster Bondroff]

Overall sounds good.

Quote

Accomplishing a command order.

This is really innovative. Haven't seen such a thing in other games. You will get rewards if you follow command orders. This has the potential to really encourage teamplay and the commander role cause this ways the commanders orders will not just be "words".


But i would like a little clarification on on this:

Quote

General XP can be spent on any BattleMech efficiency, while BattleMech Chassis XP can only be earned on the current active player BattleMech.

in combination with this

Quote

In order to access Elite I, the player needs to not only unlock all upgrades on tiers 1-4 of this model, but they have to do the same for every initial variant.

I currently understand it this way. If you choose to Pilot a Dragon you will earn Battlemech chassis XP for the Dragon which can be spent on any given Dragon variant. So i can elite a mech while playing only one of its variants the entire time. I also earn General XP which i can spent on any other Battlemech i like.

Have i gotten this right?

Edited by Foster Bondroff, 06 February 2012 - 11:59 PM.

[Chuckie]

Foster Bondroff, on 06 February 2012 - 11:55 PM, said:

But i would like a little clarification on on this:

After playing WoT a while.. It has a lot of similarities in the way the Tank tree works..

[Joseph Calvert]

To ALL those Flaming on this topic, CHILL OUT!
The game hasn't even been seen in a beta form yet and evryone is going off the handle here.
All of this is ******* in the wind until we get our hands on the beta and find out the good and the bad.

All of us are "assuming" alot off of a little bit of information, and when you "assume" you make an *** out of you and me.

[SgtAgony]

All of these setups reminds me a bit how BattleField 3 works. No comparaison tho... I mean, we do have giant Mech in our hands. However, if as the example I just gave is right, everyone will have their role. I glad to see that this game won't only be a ''I have a bigger Mech than yours so I'm stronger''.

I can't wait to have more infos on the game, mostly the release date :3

[Baba Yogi]

I think they simplified the roles too much. There's no lrm boat support tree (or arrow IV we know it's avaiable in that year somewhat new though) or a cavalry tree (firepower+speed). Ofc we haven't seen all of it, they might just put them in different trees in attack/defence role(hopefully). Also i believe Elite I + Elite II ranks sound a bit stupid. It'd sound better if they'd have categorized it like green-regular-vetaran-elite, it also sounds more canon. We dont need pampering like CoD kids.

[Maelik Crowe]

Paul,

The info is great, as always, it gives a much better idea of how the mechanics are, hopefully, going to work

Is there any expectation of seeing some gameplay in the near future?

I am chomping at the bit and very excited and would love to see some actual in-game engine footage. Help us help you bang the drum. The first thing I would do upon seeing more would be to repost and spread the word. I do have a bit of an audience so the more I have to share the better.

Well done and nicely shown re: diagrams and roles, thanks man, sounds great!

Cheers and congrats!

[icepick37]

This sounds needlessly convoluted...

EDIT: I will however reserve final juegement until the game is playable.

Edited by icepick37, 09 February 2012 - 09:11 PM.

[yukon58]

Hayden, on 03 February 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:

The only thing (as I sit here on my lunch break) that I don't like are "predator drone" (it must be ancient! And seems very similar to air strike) and the "naval bombardment"... since wet navies are pretty much non-existent, and there hasn't been a non-comstar warship in the inner sphere in decades or centuries.

Otherwise, everything seems very exciting!

I agree with Hayden on the "Call Predator Drone" commander skill on a few different aspects and levels of nitpickiness; sorry, just the way I am when I want something to succeed.

I originally had a gripe about how "the Predator drone is a real-world aircraft, so why would it still exist a thousand years later?" However, after some research, I found that aerotech fighters called the Sabre and Eagle exist in the BT universe just as fighters by the same name exist in the real world, so a Predator drone is not too far-fetched. My argument there is void.

I also had a small argument on why it should not be named "Call Predator Drone" because there is no action word there to denote what the drone is doing. However, some of the other commander skills are named "Call UAV" and "Call Artillery". Most purveyors of the genre and others like it simply know what calling artillery and a UAV entails. Those gun barrels on the horizon ain't there to look pretty. And if you didn't ask for that little bird in the sky to be there, then watch out.

To differentiate the "Call Predator Drone" from "Call Air Strike", I could see renaming "Call Air Strike" to "Call Strafing Run". And in my perfect world where I get my way, "Call Predator Drone" would be named "Call Precision Strike".

Thanks for your time and thanks for your reboot of the franchise. Some fans want a hardcore, true mech simulator, but I think most will be content with something similar to the proven methods of many of the FPSs today. It is not everyone's first choice, but developers have to do what they have to do in order to make something thrive. I applaud you for trying to appeal to the majority. If for no other reason than because it seems it is more than any fans have gotten in a while.

I accept all positive feedback and constructive criticism.

Edited by yukon58, 12 February 2012 - 04:59 AM.

[DarkReaver]

Hmm then Raven should have those scouting abilities like Thermal IR imaging,Infared-red and mag-scan and probe sensor to detect shutdown meches.