249 replies to this topic

[Kip Wilson]

I'd thought id login to weigh in on this post. First, please forgive me if I say anything redundent or otherwise not entirely in tune with the thread as I've only skimmed through the posts of the more recent pages.

I think a lot of us Capellans struggle with our national pride due to the rather totalitarian regime of our government but there is a lot the Confederation offers that is sometimes easy to forget. First, since the fall of the Star League, The Confederation has never engaged in an full on militarty invasion of another state. We may raid once in a while but our military forces are purely defensive in nature. What other Successor State can say that? If you look at history, its he Davions who are the biggest war mongers. If it wasn't for them, there would probbly not have been any Succession War, and certainly not the Fourth.

(of course the invasion of St. Ives is another matter but that is in the future and also can be argued that the Confederation was just re annexing territory that had ceeded without the approval of the state)

Another thing is that the confederation provides free primary education and healthcare for all its people. Some may not like this concept but what other nation can boast a 100% literacy rate?

National pride is strong with the Capellan people. Outsiders may equate us to ancient North Korea where a corrupt government takes from its people but any real Capellan knows it is more like the US during WW2 where we willingly hold scrap drives to collect metal for producing BattleMechs and other weapons to help defend our nation. Our simple lives help protect us from our imperialistic aggressive neighbors.

The OP original post wasn't biased in any way, simply a statement of fact and an observation. True there may be some anti-capellan bias out there but we true Capellans need not worry about such things. We know our nation and are proud of it.


(OOC it took me many years to truely appreciate the Capellan Confederation and it took a very real trip to China to understand how such a totalitarian goverment afffects normal peoples lives - which it really doesnt that far seperated. Us westerners have really been brainwashed into thinking that our free and democratic society is the only one that works. But in all honesty, as long as the government isnt shooting people in the street, how much one type of government affects an individual over another realy isnt significant, people still go to work, raise families and have very similar existences. The Confederation may be corrupt and brutal at the top but at the individual level, the Confederation cares very much for its citizens and its citizens care very much for the confederation - even if its not the most perfect system)

[metro]

Welcome to MWO Kip.

More perspectives are always welcome.

[Alex Wolfe]

Dihm, on 10 February 2012 - 08:20 PM, said:

A complete lack of change or "big things happening" in the setting is also bad, people don't use the word stagnant, or stagnation, as a positive thing.

The problem isn't unwillingness to accept change, but the clear bias towards the Davion faction at the expense of all others when changes are happening, and "cartoonifying" said others into incompetent, unsympathetic stereotypes lacking any depth and thus pretty much destined to lose (which, coincidentally, they do), and reduced to obvious, one-dimensional villains in nearly every game so far.

Besides, the lack of change within Houses is precisely what irks some people (including me). A nation of billions is big enough for many facets to be shown (especially considered the depth of cultures they are based on), instead of Liao being all about mysterious totalitarian crazy, Kurita genocidal totalitarian crazy, Steiner domineering totalitarian state, and Davion being all righteous freedom. The problem is, that there seems to be only two states to most Battletech nations: stagnant and utterly unchanging, or destroyed/completely remade, with name change and everything. Where's the middle ground? Where's "life"?

There's so much potential there to explore, why reboot a franchise only to repeat the same old song and dance all over again? I'm not clamoring for stripping them of their identities, but about expanding them.

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 11 February 2012 - 05:17 AM.

[DarkReaver]

Liao in full view wholesome is not to be blame. Each Houses have their own faults and political agenda to purse.Comstar maintained neutral but also purse their own government views making use each Houses' vendetta to better themselves in position for Terra. Understand Liao is all about soaking up all the insults and vendetta and throwing back at their enemies it what make them good.

[Chuckie]

DarkReaver, on 11 February 2012 - 05:25 AM, said:

Liao in full view wholesome is not to be blame. Each Houses have their own faults and political agenda to purse.Comstar maintained neutral but also purse their own government views making use each Houses' vendetta to better themselves in position for Terra. Understand Liao is all about soaking up all the insults and vendetta and throwing back at their enemies it what make them good.

?? I think I need a bablefish translator..

[HIemfire]

Chuckie, on 11 February 2012 - 10:10 AM, said:

?? I think I need a bablefish translator..

DarkReaver, on 11 February 2012 - 05:25 AM, said:

Liao in full view wholesome is not to be blame. Each Houses have their own faults and political agenda to purse.Comstar maintained neutral but also purse their own government views making use each Houses' vendetta to better themselves in position for Terra. Understand Liao is all about soaking up all the insults and vendetta and throwing back at their enemies it what make them good.

Simple translation: None of the Great Houses (or for that matter any faction) are above reproach for their activities and all factions have done things that, when taken in isolation, are viewable as outright wrong or evil. The Comstar example is pertaining to how they were playing the Great Houses against eachother while Comstar persued it's agenda of absolute control of information and suppression of technology to a pre Star League level (smoke and mirrors). DarkReaver's final line basicly means that Liao (the Capellan Confederation) is used to getting the short end of the stick and generally saves up it's ire for when the enemy is least prepaired and then strikes (the patient killer).

[Max OConnor]

You know, some things are a contradiction, but they are still quite good laddie..

http://youtu.be/GHgo4tPIjvk

http://youtu.be/uFWYyuQR__c

http://youtu.be/VnLMXvbS7gM

Edited by maxoconnor, 12 February 2012 - 07:02 AM.

[Max OConnor]

Take this Chuckie



and this one rocks

http://youtu.be/tdwlgC-0XeQ

Edited by maxoconnor, 12 February 2012 - 07:00 AM.

[Polymorphyne]

To be fair, if you read up in the sourcebooks- Davion is not a democracy and is not portrayed as being utterly "good"
Our nation is ruled by a dynasty just like the other states, despite claims of democracy- we still are always led by a Davion, and we have had some great Davions, and some really bad Davions (Look at Etien Davion early on in our history)

[Fiachdubh]

All the Great Houses could be demonized, despite some of the current crop of nobles such as Victor, Hohiro, Kai and Isis they all behave pretty contemptuously in general. From tearing apart the Star League and the endless succession wars they have all been guilty of causing the deaths of billions for their own personal power plays. You'd think they would of realised pretty quickly that none of them could ever conquer all the rest by force of arms but no, they just keep on starting more wars.

Of course even amongst a bad bunch Liao stands out as being a particularly nasty police state. They have military units called Death Commandos!

The only IS state that has any sort of right to a claim of moral leadership is the Outworlds Alliance. Unfortunately we do not get to choose them yet.

[metro]

lol....Nice clip MAX.

>salute<

[Max OConnor]

Fiachdubh, on 12 February 2012 - 07:16 AM, said:

All the Great Houses could be demonized, despite some of the current crop of nobles such as Victor, Hohiro, Kai and Isis they all behave pretty contemptuously in general. From tearing apart the Star League and the endless succession wars they have all been guilty of causing the deaths of billions for their own personal power plays. You'd think they would of realised pretty quickly that none of them could ever conquer all the rest by force of arms but no, they just keep on starting more wars.

Of course even amongst a bad bunch Liao stands out as being a particularly nasty police state. They have military units called Death Commandos!

The only IS state that has any sort of right to a claim of moral leadership is the Outworlds Alliance. Unfortunately we do not get to choose them yet.

I find this humorous and is a great illustration of what I have meant in previous posts.
We call our special forces exactly what they are, Death Commandos, but when you call them something like Mi6, or Loki, or S.A.F.E. or D.E.S.T. they must be all warm and fuzzy people because those governments would NEVER assasinate anyone or kill innocent people to get to their goals would they?

Please , at least we don't pretend to be something we are not. Freedom is an illusion, some nation's boundaries for that illusion are a little broader than others, but trust me, step over the line in the most benevolent nation and see where your freedome really is.

Example, you have someone who has wronged someone in power.

House Davion, no no, its ok, don't worry about it, it was nothing, go on about your business...............
*whispers to his aid* make sure you have his family meet an unfortunate accident this evening......

House Kurita: Go kill your family for the insult you have done to me, then come back here and kill yourself.

House Steiner: Go and seize all of their assets and bring them to me leaving them destitute and starving.

House Marik: You have insulted me, however if you will side with me against my sibling who is in power I won't kill you and your family.

House Liao: You have insulted me,*looks to a Death Commando standing by* Shoot this man and his family too.
Plain, upfront in your face honest.
At least you know where you stand. lol

[Chuckie]

maxoconnor, on 12 February 2012 - 09:05 AM, said:

Example, you have someone who has wronged someone in power.

House Davion, no no, its ok, don't worry about it, it was nothing, go on about your business.

*whispers to his aid* make sure you have his family meet an unfortunate accident this evening......

House Kurita: Go kill your family for the insult you have done to me, then come back here and kill yourself.

House Steiner: Go and seize all of their assets and bring them to me leaving them destitute and starving.

House Marik: You have insulted me, however if you will side with me against my sibling who is in power I won't kill you and your family.

House Liao: You have insulted me,*looks to a Death Commando standing by* Shoot this man and his family too.
Plain, upfront in your face honest.

At least you know where you stand. lol

On Northwind we are an anarcho-syndicalist commune, we take turns to act as sort of an executive officer for the week. But all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special biweekly meeting by a simple majority, In the case of purely internal affairs. But by a two thirds majority, in the case of more major affairs.

As Anarcho-syndicalists we regard the state as a profoundly anti-worker institution. We view the primary purpose of the state as being the defence of private property and therefore of economic, social and political privilege, even when such defence denies its citizens the ability to enjoy material independence and the social autonomy which springs from it. In contrast to other bodies of thought (Marxism-Leninism being a prime example), anarcho-syndicalists deny that there can be any kind of workers' state, or a state which acts in the interests of workers, as opposed to those of the powerful. Reflecting the anarchist philosophy from which it draws its primary inspiration, anarcho-syndicalism holds to the idea that power corrupts.

So.. you can disagree with the powers that be on Northwind and not worry about your family being killed. Because tommorrow you may be the leader.



Being Mercs we also live by a modified version of the Pirate Code obviously a few of the more out of date rules (like code VI) are now ignored..

So see.. doesn't it sound like living on Northwind would be a better choice that worrying if they will kill your family over a minor indiscression

Edited by Chuckie, 12 February 2012 - 02:47 PM.

[Zectorman]

Chuckie, on 12 February 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

On Northwind we are an anarcho-syndicalist commune, we take turns to act as sort of an executive officer for the week. But all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special biweekly meeting by a simple majority, In the case of purely internal affairs. But by a two thirds majority, in the case of more major affairs.

As Anarcho-syndicalists we regard the state as a profoundly anti-worker institution. They view the primary purpose of the state as being the defence of private property and therefore of economic, social and political privilege, even when such defence denies its citizens the ability to enjoy material independence and the social autonomy which springs from it. In contrast to other bodies of thought (Marxism-Leninism being a prime example), anarcho-syndicalists deny that there can be any kind of workers' state, or a state which acts in the interests of workers, as opposed to those of the powerful. Reflecting the anarchist philosophy from which it draws its primary inspiration, anarcho-syndicalism holds to the idea that power corrupts.

So.. you can disagree and not worry about your family being killed in our utopia



Being Mercs we also live by a modified version of the Pirate Code obviously a few of the more out of date rules (live code VI) are now ignored..

So see.. doesnt it sound like living on Northwind would be a better choice that worrying if they will kill your family over a minor indiscression

If you keep quoting Monty Python for your arguements people are going to stop taking your argument seriously lol. Although it does make me laugh a bit here and there.

I'm very very new to the whole Battletech universe, but i have been "studying" you might say. I choose Liao for a number or reasons:
1. Everyone gets the oppurtunity to rise above their station, as long as they have the skill to do so.
2. While i don't like to copy off of what many before said in this post, Liao, or the confederation, are very upfront about how the handle politics. You can say its more honorable to "Shoot them in the face" than to "Stab them in the back, along with their family".
3. The confederation doesnt have all your showy Zeus's and Dragon's. But it makes up for it in cunning and guile.
4. Underdogs, comon that in itself is attractive enough to play as one. In this timeline, we are on the defensive and are in our weakest state. Moral is low in the confederation, because of a Davion sneak attack (Which i might add began at a wedding....as a present...***) we have lost a good chunk of the nation.

Hopefully while playing this game they move up the date to when Sun Tzu takes over. I want to take back St. Ives and a few more star systems and stick it to all the "Big Boys" in the innersphere.

[IxxxI]

Zectorman, on 12 February 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

If you keep quoting Monty Python for your arguements people are going to stop taking your argument seriously lol. Although it does make me laugh a bit here and there.

Your manners are impeccable, Zectorman. I respect you for polite behavior toward such a person.

Edited by IxxxI, 12 February 2012 - 02:12 PM.

[Chuckie]

maxoconnor, on 12 February 2012 - 06:49 AM, said:

You know, some things are a contradiction, but they are still quite good laddie..

http://youtu.be/GHgo4tPIjvk

Toooo Funny

maxoconnor, on 12 February 2012 - 06:56 AM, said:

Take this Chuckie

Touche'

I guess you found the rarest of kin.. the Scot-Koreans.. who knew..

Zectorman, on 12 February 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

If you keep quoting Monty Python for your arguements people are going to stop taking your argument seriously lol. Although it does make me laugh a bit here and there.

I Understand who could take a game seriously if someone kept quoting MP ..???

Oh wait.. its a GAME ?!?! IN that case I hope to god your not taking it seriously..

Speaking of god, I have to go to church.. as I am an ordained minister

(May his noodly appendage sooth your soul.. RAmen)

Edited by Chuckie, 12 February 2012 - 02:55 PM.

[Zectorman]

Chuckie, on 12 February 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

Toooo Funny



Touche'

I guess you found the rarest of kin.. the Scot-Koreans.. who knew..



I Understand who could take a game seriously if someone kept quoting MP ..???

Oh wait.. its a GAME ?!?! IN that case I hope to god your not taking it seriously..

Speaking of god, I have to go to church.. as I am an ordained minister

(May his noodly appendage sooth your soul.. RAmen)

Why make any argument if your only back up is that "Its a game" then why the hell would you post if you didnt care. You must have a strange hobby of arguing about things you dont care about apparently.

[Chuckie]

Zectorman, on 12 February 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

Why make any argument if your only back up is that "Its a game" then why the hell would you post if you didnt care. You must have a strange hobby of arguing about things you dont care about apparently.

No.. I do care.. its called Role Playing, and I was debating the main OPs question not arguing and something you do in Games..

I do care, and enjoy playing games. Don't you realize that this being a MMO with different factions, etc.. there would be some role playing involved.

Come on, relax a bit you can't take everything in life so seriously..

Now that said, mixing that with Monty Python, thats just plain silliness












and I like silly

Edited by Chuckie, 12 February 2012 - 06:06 PM.

[Zectorman]

Role playing is ok, i role play. I look forward to it when this game comes out. But if your going to role play in this discussion, at least act like it and dont use Monty Python and other OOC material, just saying.

[Chuckie]

Zectorman, on 12 February 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:

Role playing is ok, i role play. I look forward to it when this game comes out. But if your going to role play in this discussion, at least act like it and dont use Monty Python and other OOC material, just saying.

Well.. I am in context. My Merc Corps unit is known as The Knights of Ni for a reason


BTW, also should note.. at least my references to Monty Python and specifically The Holy Grail, are more in context than anything Pony related and they have a thread going on 67 pages. Just Sayin'

Edited by Chuckie, 13 February 2012 - 08:25 AM.